Author Topic: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012  (Read 186238 times)

Eripio69

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #435 on: October 04, 2012, 12:06:48 AM »
My bet is the next SNK game will take the online into account and make the game itself work around the online rather then trying to make the online work around the game. Meaning the fighting system will be considerably slower and possibly simpler (i.e. more laxed inputs, delays on combos like SFIV). Time will tell. 

I agree with this. KOF as a whole is a very reactionary and strict game either needs rollback to work well online or a change in the fighting engine system to a degree. It seems to be one of the only fighting games that I know of that has trouble getting good online play on consoles.

Well its not even playable.. they didn't even try making the netcode decent. Just had a lvl 2 connection vs a good mai and I couldnt touch her.. Guy knew how to take advantage of the lag pretty well. I am so depressed atm. My copy is going back on the shelf. Every time I watch a tournament I get hyped and pick up the game again. Seriously this was the last time. Only enjoyable connection I have is with fluke it. It has lag but at least it is playable and enjoyable. For some reason connections that are closer than fluke it are a lot worse. Dunno the netcode is fucked up..

yamazaky96

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #436 on: October 04, 2012, 12:49:42 AM »
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/oct/01/madkof-king-fighters-scene-getting-smaller-might-give-and-go-back-real-life/



even in my area we had a small community but now they either went back to 02um or just stopped playing KOF
now I can hardly find any one to challenge offline
I believe the game is not as much competitive or fun as KOF02um

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desmond_kof

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #437 on: October 04, 2012, 02:23:50 AM »


Well its not even playable.. they didn't even try making the netcode decent. Just had a lvl 2 connection vs a good mai and I couldnt touch her.. Guy knew how to take advantage of the lag pretty well. I am so depressed atm. My copy is going back on the shelf. Every time I watch a tournament I get hyped and pick up the game again. Seriously this was the last time. Only enjoyable connection I have is with fluke it. It has lag but at least it is playable and enjoyable. For some reason connections that are closer than fluke it are a lot worse. Dunno the netcode is fucked up..

Honestly, I can't say the netcode is 100% unplayable, I have very good enjoyable matches with some 4 bar players, but it still has some annoying delay to where I can't properly react defensively. I don't touch anything under 3 bars. But it is very hard to find good blue bar connections at all. Anything under 3 bars, I will say is unplayable.

When it comes to lag, different people have different notions and definitions of what is playable or unplayable. Some people say that KOF98/02 on GGPO is SHITTY and unplayable at all, no matter how good the connections or latency is, while many people believe that GGPO is the best netcode made in the world.

Some people said that KOF02UM on XBL was playable while I thought it was horrible.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 02:27:42 AM by Desmond Delaghetto »
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LouisCipher

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #438 on: October 04, 2012, 03:15:12 AM »
Even the best connections have that delay that makes punishing (which is absolutely critical in this game) all but impossible. When I can't punish Duo's Rekka into Teleport multiple times with Clark's grab and I can't even punish K's Minute Spike there's something horribly wrong and the game becomes retarded.
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The Fluke

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #439 on: October 04, 2012, 07:14:25 AM »
Only enjoyable connection I have is with fluke it. It has lag but at least it is playable and enjoyable. For some reason connections that are closer than fluke it are a lot worse. Dunno the netcode is fucked up..

That's because my intornets are fantastic. Well, it seems that way sometimes even though, looking at the numbers it is absolutely nothing to brag about. I do agree that our connection is pretty good most of the time, it's never like offline, but atleast it's possible to react etc to the most essential stuff.

On the subject of changing systems.. Tekken apparently uses a seven frame input delay wich should greatly help it's online stability. When that game says me and my friends have a 1/2 bar connection it seriously doesn't feel that way. It's straigth up good, and even though i assume the displayed connection level is wrong, the connection should be unstable but it isn't.. Really good. For Kof though, i don't think adding 7 frames of delay on inputs is a smart move in a game with so many 3-5 frame moves, it just wouldn't make sense. I think the system is right, and aside from an improved netcode there really isn't all that much that should be done.

LouisCipher

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #440 on: October 04, 2012, 08:03:16 AM »
Here's the thing: Rollback netcode does work. It doesn't matter how fast paced insane the game is. It does work. For example KOF 98 and 02 and the OG Marvel games. SNKP needs to put the effort into designing the game around rollback netcode.
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Eripio69

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #441 on: October 04, 2012, 09:23:32 AM »
Only enjoyable connection I have is with fluke it. It has lag but at least it is playable and enjoyable. For some reason connections that are closer than fluke it are a lot worse. Dunno the netcode is fucked up..

That's because my intornets are fantastic. Well, it seems that way sometimes even though, looking at the numbers it is absolutely nothing to brag about. I do agree that our connection is pretty good most of the time, it's never like offline, but atleast it's possible to react etc to the most essential stuff.

On the subject of changing systems.. Tekken apparently uses a seven frame input delay wich should greatly help it's online stability. When that game says me and my friends have a 1/2 bar connection it seriously doesn't feel that way. It's straigth up good, and even though i assume the displayed connection level is wrong, the connection should be unstable but it isn't.. Really good. For Kof though, i don't think adding 7 frames of delay on inputs is a smart move in a game with so many 3-5 frame moves, it just wouldn't make sense. I think the system is right, and aside from an improved netcode there really isn't all that much that should be done.

That's it! I am moving to Sweden! lol

LouisCipher

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #442 on: October 04, 2012, 08:39:48 PM »
I thought Bala's trolling of Justin Wong's keepaway fireball game was one of the highlights.

Link please :D i miss it.

[KOF XIII] Season's Beatings: Ascensio - Bala vs. Justin Wong
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marchefelix

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #443 on: October 04, 2012, 11:36:34 PM »
[KOF XIII] Season's Beatings: Ascensio - Bala vs. Justin Wong

This is the only time I recall being annoyed by KOF commentary...

(It was a good match BTW)

PureYeti

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #444 on: October 04, 2012, 11:40:31 PM »
I don't see any trolling from that match. He just beats him

LouisCipher

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #445 on: October 04, 2012, 11:43:23 PM »
You didn't notice the end where he could've killed Wong by finishing the Rekka, backed off, and did fierce SRK to AA?
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Mr Bakaboy

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #446 on: October 05, 2012, 12:12:00 AM »
Here's the thing: Rollback netcode does work. It doesn't matter how fast paced insane the game is. It does work. For example KOF 98 and 02 and the OG Marvel games. SNKP needs to put the effort into designing the game around rollback netcode.

The major problem with rollback netcode is they have not had a full success story with the new games with the better graphics with rollback. Street Fighter IV was made to work around the netcode. MVC3 was simplified. SFXTK has it's issues. With such a complex game like KOFXIII it's been impossible for ANY netcode to look remotely good on it cause there is no room for error in high level play. 02UM is easier to play cause you can make mistakes without having a character wiped out.

I can see your point where taking it down to SFIV level would be plain silly and unnecessary, but the next KOF has to make some serious decisions on what needs to be in the game to make it fun but also be able to function online competitively.
Say it with me now: "Variable input lag BAAAAAAD!!!"

JennyCage

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #447 on: October 05, 2012, 12:22:48 AM »
If GGPO can be made to work for 02, I don't see why it couldn't work with 13.  02 maxmode is way stricter/faster paced but it still manages to work.  Maybe it's a processing-power issue, though.  PS3/XBox are barely above calculator standards these days lol.

Either way, without rollbacks, the online is doomed.
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desmond_kof

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #448 on: October 05, 2012, 12:53:07 AM »
If GGPO can be made to work for 02, I don't see why it couldn't work with 13.
KOF02 and KOF13 have totally different graphical engines and memory specifications uses than each other. GGPO from what I understand needs a lot of RAM to be able to fully use its rollback function, which is why its so easy to use on neo-geo/cps3 roms.
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012
« Reply #449 on: October 05, 2012, 02:43:35 AM »
We just have to face facts. We can't generally encourage people to play online. It's not a viable thing for cross-country play. Across the state is not so bad though. I honestly feel like I have good work going on against people in my city (Though many of them choose not to).

I think it does frustrate some people. I was playing Laban and he doesn't seem incredibly thrilled to play again, even though we have a 4 bar connection. In any case, it needs to go back to the old school grassroots community building.

Specifically in my region. We only play in tournaments.