Balance issues and constructive suggestions

[DarKaoZ]

Well I still think Elizabeth needs nerfing, because is there any other DM in the game that can hit a character of the air when it's not a counter hit? I know if you hit someone with CD in the air, no DM will hit them unless it's a counter hit, yet Elizabeth DM can hit them even if it's not a Counter Hit.

So is it wrong of me to think that Elizabeth DM is the only DM in the game that can hit non Counter hit airborne opponents and that it should get fix?

[Remzi]

Liz is fine aside from the recovery time on some of her moves, which are a bit fast on whiff for my tastes. The juggle DM isn't bad, there are other DM's that can juggle you from any state too. Can't remember which ones, though.

Andy's 2D is really annoying though. Who else has a 2D anti-air / sweep / poking tool.

[MUSOLINI]

ofcourse liz needs nerfing, no character does that much obscene damage without the use of bars. her dp move needs its prtoperties changed so you cant juggle after it unless you DC it or you happen to be in the corner.

another character that needs nerfing is kula, along with k and raiden obviously.

[Remzi]

Liz doesn't need a nerf, just a bit slower recovery on whiff. Vice has just as much juggle ability from her 41236[BD], and that leads to even bigger damage combos.

Kula isn't as good as Andy, like, at all. Shen is better than Kula, too. Kula's good, and an upper-mid tier, but definitely not top tier.

[MUSOLINI]

you dont make sense, are you seriously comparing an ex move to a move that costs no dm bar at all? are you serious?

[SAB-CA]

So is it wrong of me to think that Elizabeth DM is the only DM in the game that can hit non Counter hit airborne opponents and that it should get fix?

I think it's the only DM in the game that can do it, yeah, but there are other "Anywhere juggles", all taking meter (which means they might as well be DMs..). Those being Hwa's EX dp+k Move (the repeatable Dragon Kick, if I remember right), and Vice's EX DeCide. And both those characters are ones that can do pretty crazy damage with those moves, when used right.

No other one is exactly as spammable as Liz's, though. I think it's be perfectly fine to make Elisabeth's Grand Rafale DM Anywhere juggle on EX DM, normal juggle for normal DM. This would nerf her Air reset game to using more meters, but still let the normal DM land off counter hit CDs and Etincelles.

Oh, and in discussion of balance changes and all, I had a thought. What if Terry's EX Burn Knuckle was given Guard Break properties? It'd give him a save way to get in, and while I don't think it should lead to a free combo close up (that might be too good), I could see it being used from far distance to guard crush & land a free combo, since he could recover right at the end of the move. Similiar to Shen's charge punch. That's give Terry much more ability to safely persue after blowbacks and power geysers / recovery rolls, which people like Andy and K' can already do, without using any meter.

[Remzi]

Anywhere juggles that take meter can be compared to a DM.

As for terry's knuckle guardbreaking, I say it should do a decent amount of guard-damage, but not enough to guardbreak. Shen's charge punch takes time to charge and can easily be punished by a bunch of things, and it can also be jumped on reaction.

[DarKaoZ]

I think it's the only DM in the game that can do it, yeah, but there are other "Anywhere juggles", all taking meter (which means they might as well be DMs..). Those being Hwa's EX dp+k Move (the repeatable Dragon Kick, if I remember right), and Vice's EX DeCide. And both those characters are ones that can do pretty crazy damage with those moves, when used right.

Indeed, but can Vice and Hwa do as much damage as Liz with only using 1 Bar? I know they can do a lot of damage, but that requires at least 1 Drive and 1 more EX/DM attack. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Remzi]

You can still get lots of damage off j.CD with those characters via use of EX, hell, I think you can get more than just one DM because they both have followups after unlike Liz's DM.

[DarKaoZ]

You can still get lots of damage off j.CD with those characters via use of EX, hell, I think you can get more than just one DM because they both have followups after unlike Liz's DM.

Interesting, I need to search more about it, I would have to look at Bala matches in Revelations to see how he uses Vice. Dunno to who to search for Hwa though.

[SAB-CA]

Doh, also forgot Takuma's EX Zanretsuken has "Anywhere Juggle" properties.

On the Terry Guard break thing, reason I'd think a full break with advantage on further range would be ok, is that loads of characters have safe advances in this game. Terry just seems to lack ways to either get in, or to open up opponents, so it'd be good to see him get something.

[MUSOLINI]

isnt terrys crackshoot safe?

[metaphysics]

Not against most command grabs, but for the most part yes. If you space it correctly you can do it against them too

[SAB-CA]

Not against most command grabs, but for the most part yes. If you space it correctly you can do it against them too

Only the weak one, and only at certain ranges though, right? Otherwise, he seems much more punishable than just about everyone else in this game. I've gotten the impression that weak Crack Shoot leaves him more open in XIII than in XII.

But hey, if Weak Crackshoot is a safe advancement move, that's great to hear ^_^ Most vids don't make it look as such, but they could just be not-so-great Terry's...

[metaphysics]

Not against most command grabs, but for the most part yes. If you space it correctly you can do it against them too

Only the weak one, and only at certain ranges though, right? Otherwise, he seems much more punishable than just about everyone else in this game. I've gotten the impression that weak Crack Shoot leaves him more open in XIII than in XII.

But hey, if Weak Crackshoot is a safe advancement move, that's great to hear ^_^ Most vids don't make it look as such, but they could just be not-so-great Terry's...

yeah only A. version at certain distance is safe against grapplers, but if you are not a grappler it's  safe and important for his offensive pressure.

You can even make A. Version burn knuckle safe, at the right distance. and everybody especially grapplers instantly wanna punish you. If you were charging during burn knuckle, you instantly input rising tackle to beat the grapple, or just jump straight up for a full combo !!  

Yeah there was one recent Japanese terry that looked like he really knew his stuff, but that's pretty much it, one of those versus videos