Author Topic: Ash Crimson (Arcade Version)  (Read 42734 times)

Gravelneed

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2011, 04:54:08 PM »
Seeing how a lot of Ash's normals are different now. I thought of some things regarding them.

Now that he lost his f+A overhead. It seems his high/low game may be a little lacking. Now he has to jump to score high hits. Though I'm not sure how viable that overhead would be in XIII since it wasn't even super cancellable in XI. Though in that game you could just Quick Shift from that to get big damage. IN XIII, I guess you could HD activate for a combo but I'm going on a tangent.

Anyway, Ash's j.C changed from a low angled swipe to a forward arm extended hit. How viable is j.C now? I remember the old one could even cross up.

His lack of a command grab isn't too bad but maybe it could of made Thermidor more useful.

Is Ash's j.D still as good for crossups/non-crossups now?

Is his far.C still Super Cancellable on whiff/hit?

« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 04:56:11 PM by Gravelneed »

Ash

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Training Mode
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2011, 01:58:14 AM »
Seeing how a lot of Ash's normals are different now. I thought of some things regarding them.

Now that he lost his f+A overhead. It seems his high/low game may be a little lacking. Now he has to jump to score high hits. Though I'm not sure how viable that overhead would be in XIII since it wasn't even super cancellable in XI. Though in that game you could just Quick Shift from that to get big damage. IN XIII, I guess you could HD activate for a combo but I'm going on a tangent.

Anyway, Ash's j.C changed from a low angled swipe to a forward arm extended hit. How viable is j.C now? I remember the old one could even cross up.

His lack of a command grab isn't too bad but maybe it could of made Thermidor more useful.

Is Ash's j.D still as good for crossups/non-crossups now?

Is his far.C still Super Cancellable on whiff/hit?



f+A would be extremely nice to have to start HD combos. As for it being cancellable it could be possible since Vice can do it.

j.C is good air to air, but should be done pre-emptively if you can read a jump. It's best to use j.B air to air since it beats/trades against almost everything.

I said this previously, but *Do Not Use Thermidor* - long start up and completely vulnerable even at full screen against some characters

Ash can cross up with j.D, j.B, and j.A however all of them have about the same difficult to cross-up. It's not easy, but with practice you can find the right distance. I prefer to use j.A for crossing up, especially after a throw.

Far C. I don't use too much, but I believe it is cancellable on hit, but not on whiff.

Aenthin

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
    • Fuck Yeah! Ash Crimson
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2011, 05:51:35 PM »
Do not use Thermidor indeed. It's only good for pressure now but even then, it's not efficient. I've caught some people with it once or twice but them bouncing off the ball is pretty much about luck now. You can't even hit anyone on the startup, when Ash hasn't released the ball yet, so using juggling moves like his EX Germinal Caprice doesn't work.

I miss the old j.C. This one, however, might not have crossup but it does have a suprisingly wide hitbox since can hit opponents on ground too...with relative ease.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 05:54:53 PM by Aenthin »

Gravelneed

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2011, 06:01:45 PM »
That really sucks how you can't combo Thermidor off of EX Germinal Caprice. Only thing I could see being useful is GeneexxThermidor to bait a jump. You did say that no hits can be scored before Ash actually throws it. So maybe that tactic isn't useful either.

*must find way to make Thermidor useful*

Ash

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Training Mode
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2011, 07:25:09 PM »
That really sucks how you can't combo Thermidor off of EX Germinal Caprice. Only thing I could see being useful is GeneexxThermidor to bait a jump. You did say that no hits can be scored before Ash actually throws it. So maybe that tactic isn't useful either.

*must find way to make Thermidor useful*

Yes, Thermidor does not hit for a bit until after it's release. It's not even worth using as a setup. You'd rather spend the meter usage elsewhere. most likely you'd want to save it for ABCD if anything because you'll find that when using Ash you'll be in desperate need of all the meter you can get. Sans is definitely his best option for meter usage, followed by (in no particular order) s.C -> b+B -> qcfx2+BD or d.C -> b~f+BD or b~f+AC to punish.

If you start using Thermidor here and there, you're going to wish you saved the meter later in the round.

Aenthin

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
    • Fuck Yeah! Ash Crimson
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2011, 07:32:43 PM »
The only saving grace for Thermidor is that it still protects you from midair projectiles (dunno about grounded ones like Power Wave) and the fact that you can super cancel it. Still really not very useful though. (That said, I still used it a lot of times on my matches yesterday. xD)

A few notes with his C Ventose too. Sometimes, it's more reliable than EX Ventose in negating projectiles as EX Ventose has a bit of a startup. This happens when a projectile is too close and/or too fast to counter with the EX version. Also, the startup where it negates projectiles has a pretty long frame. I just managed to counter a projectile when I thought I did C Ventose too early but Ash was still able to throw another one. I still don't know how this works with certain projectiles like EX versions.

I don't remember if I have any other notes for him.

Kane317

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2011, 10:35:11 PM »
I don't know if this variation of his juggle combos have been displayed before, but you can never have too many references anyways (HD into Sans Culotte into another Sans Culotte).
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 11:08:24 PM by Kane317 »

Ash

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Training Mode
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2011, 12:04:08 AM »
I don't know if this variation of his juggle combos have been displayed before, but you can never have too many references anyways (HD into Sans Culotte into another Sans Culotte).

Wow that's actually pretty hard to do. After b~f+D, he cancels into either b+D or b+B and you can't even seen the animation but he empty cancels that into b~f+C. You do get less hits off his b~F+C, but you get 1 or 2 extra attacks. Also this combo with b~f+A, walking b~f+C is easier on Raiden (still hard, but compared to other characters) because of the wide hit box hahah.

Kane317

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2011, 12:33:20 AM »
I don't know if this variation of his juggle combos have been displayed before, but you can never have too many references anyways (HD into Sans Culotte into another Sans Culotte).

Wow that's actually pretty hard to do. After b~f+D, he cancels into either b+D or b+B and you can't even seen the animation but he empty cancels that into b~f+C. You do get less hits off his b~F+C, but you get 1 or 2 extra attacks. Also this combo with b~f+A, walking b~f+C is easier on Raiden (still hard, but compared to other characters) because of the wide hit box hahah.

Had a feeling you would like that clip.

Demoninja

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2011, 11:46:44 AM »
I'm interested in picking up Ash now but I have no idea where to start! It's so tempting to just hop into training mode and going for the big beefy combos without any idea of how to actually play him.

For some reason I think Ash should be playing a strong zoning style. Just keep them out and when they do something risky to get in you punish them with the sexiest combo they've ever seen.

Kane317

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2011, 10:53:12 PM »
For some reason I think Ash should be playing a strong zoning style. Just keep them out and when they do something risky to get in you punish them with the sexiest combo they've ever seen.

^ This should be the description of Ash in our wiki.

Aenthin

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
    • Fuck Yeah! Ash Crimson
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2011, 02:15:35 AM »
Wow that's actually pretty hard to do. After b~f+D, he cancels into either b+D or b+B and you can't even seen the animation but he empty cancels that into b~f+C. You do get less hits off his b~F+C, but you get 1 or 2 extra attacks. Also this combo with b~f+A, walking b~f+C is easier on Raiden (still hard, but compared to other characters) because of the wide hit box hahah.

Oh dang. I didn't even noticed he empty canceled until you pointed out and listened carefully.

Gravelneed

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2011, 11:56:41 AM »
I don't know if this variation of his juggle combos have been displayed before, but you can never have too many references anyways (HD into Sans Culotte into another Sans Culotte).

I have never seen that variation before. Looks really tough to perform too. Thanks for posting that Kane. I'm always interested in Ash gameplay stuff.

Kane317

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2011, 06:22:31 AM »
Ash's corner stun combo, requires 2 stocks and 60% drive meter.  Apparently, if you can land a j.CD in the corner you can do it with 1 stock and 50% drive.  Perhaps one our local Ash expert CMD.Duc could transcribe the combo. EDIT: Ok I transcibed it but if CMD.Duc or Mr Kof could double check for me that'll be great (particularly the strengths of the specials).

(Corner) j.D, s.C/d.C, Ex Germinal Carpice (c.b~f+K), C Ventose (c.b~f+C), b.D, C Ventose, Nivose B (c.d~u+B) [1hit], [DC] A Ventose, (walk slightly) C Ventose, Sans Culotte (ABCD), { Nivose B [1hit], b.D, Germinal Caprice, b.B (whiffs) } x4, Nivose B [1hit], b.D, Germinal Caprice, C Ventose, b.D, C Ventose, Nivose B [1hit], [DC] A ventose, (walk slightly) C Ventose, b.D, s.CD (dizzes), Genee A (qcb+A), j.D, s.C/d.C, Ex Germinal Caprice, C Ventose, b.D, C Ventose, Nivose B [1hit], [DC] A Ventose, (walk slightly) C Ventose, b.D, Pluivose DM (qcf x2+K).

Sounds confusing as hell but since I intend to learn it as well I'm going to break it down:
I. j.D, d.C, Ex Germinal Caprice
II. C Ventose, b.D, C Ventose, Nivose B [1hit], [DC] A Ventose, (walk slightly) C Ventose
III. Nivose B [1hit], b.D, Germinal Caprice

I. --> II. --> ABCD --> ( III. --> b.B {whiff} ) x4 -->  III. --> II. --> b.D --> s.CD (dizzes) --> Genee A --> I. --> II. --> b.D --> Pluivose
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 10:19:23 PM by Kane317 »

Gravelneed

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2011, 07:12:21 AM »
^Amazing stuff there. Only 2 stock and 60% HD meter. Very nice.

Also, in this match vid, I like the way Ash runs to the other side after activating sans-culotte so he can take Terry to the corner quickly. I don't think I've seen someone do that before. Pretty smart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZudoCEab7I&#t=2m54s