Topic: K' (Arcade Version)

[Reiki.Kito]

It's really just the delay.

First off, to do it, you have to buffer the dp after the narrow spike. Once you do the dp+A motion, do a half circle back motion then let go of the stick a little so it will reset. This part is a little tricky. You have to see K' hit the opponent first and THEN do the qcb+k. Your visual queue is just the hit animation.

Try it out and see if that helps. If not, you don't have to do that. People often just super cancel too for about the same amount of damage. Works the same way, just press punch and you'll do chain drive.

[DJMirror949]

Ah I see ok then thank you

[Reiki.Kito]

No problem! Just don't feel like you got to play a certain type of K'. If you want to do your combo, do it, but I do want to say it's a lot of meter and would probably be good as an ender to close out a fight.

Once you have drive, you could do dp+A (2 hits), [DC] qcf+B, dp+C as a nice addition. It does about 30 damage less than qcb+k loops and only requires one drive meter to do. Give it a shot, it's real easy!

[tastylumpia]

KOFXIII - SOUTHTOWN ARCADE FALL BRAWL RANBATS 2.1 -PART 3

Just in case anyone didn't see it, Ash/CMD.Duc had some really strong K' play in the grand finals set at the past ranbat beginning around 55 minutes in.

A couple things I noticed, his K stays really active. There's rarely a point where he's just sitting there, he'll either apply hop pressure, throw out lots of triggers, whiff st.A/c.B in anticipation of a jump-in/dash-in respectively, as well as the occasional random minute spike (as do a lot of K players).

Regarding hop pressure, primary pokes utilized were hop CD and hop B (as well as the standard hop D). I assume the CD was used because of the priority and even on trade it results in a knockdown resetting the situation allowing K to resume his zoning game, as well as allowing a juggle followup on CH (@1:14:00). Hop B is good because it's a decent air-to-air as well as a quick jump-in that can be an ambiguous crossup in certain spacings. @55:57, 1:06:19 deep hop Bs that doesn't cross-up (note that they took out the crossup property in console). @56:40, 1:13:44 crossup hop B.

You also see a trigger canceled into B blackout (and also raw blackout) which is notable because blackout seems to be the least utilized out of the three possible trigger cancels. It's a bit risky as non-EX blackout has no invincibility, but can be done sparingly if you expect that your opponent won't react. @55:52 blackout crosses through the opponent but Ash wasn't ready to hit confirm the c.B. @56:00 trigger->blackout is used to advance forward which leads into the second shell juggle. @56:05,1:00:10 meaty blackouts in the corner as a fakeout(?), @56:31 blackout moves K' forward which messes with Ryo's jump spacing, Duc gets a cross-under c.B.

@1:13:03 nice confirm; far anti-air second shoot combo into minute spike juggle.

I'm sure there's a lot more that I missed, but this is some of the best K' footage I've seen online, if anyone has any videos of other strong K' it'd be greatly appreciated.

[Kane317]

Just in case anyone didn't see it, Ash/CMD.Duc had some really strong K' play in the grand finals set at the past ranbat beginning around 55 minutes in.

A couple things I noticed, his K stays really active. There's rarely a point where he's just sitting there, he'll either apply hop pressure, throw out lots of triggers, whiff st.A/c.B in anticipation of a jump-in/dash-in respectively, as well as the occasional random minute spike (as do a lot of K players).

Regarding hop pressure, primary pokes utilized were hop CD and hop B (as well as the standard hop D). I assume the CD was used because of the priority and even on trade it results in a knockdown resetting the situation allowing K to resume his zoning game, as well as allowing a juggle followup on CH. Hop B is good because it's a decent air-to-air as well as a quick jump-in that can be an ambiguous crossup in certain spacings. @55:57, 1:06:19 deep hop Bs that doesn't cross-up (note that they took out the crossup property in console). @56:40 crossup hop B.

You also see a trigger canceled into B blackout (and also raw blackout) which is notable because blackout seems to be the least utilized out of the three possible trigger cancels. It's a bit risky as non-EX blackout has no invincibility, but can be done sparingly if you expect that your opponent won't react. @55:52 blackout crosses through the opponent but Ash wasn't ready to hit confirm the c.B. @56:00 trigger->blackout is used to advance forward which leads into the second shell juggle. @56:05,1:00:10 meaty blackouts in the corner as a fakeout(?), @56:31 blackout moves K' forward which messes with Ryo's jump spacing, Duc gets a cross-under c.B.

I'm sure there's a lot more that I missed, but this is some of the best K' footage I've seen online, if anyone has any videos of other strong K' it'd be greatly appreciated.

Great analysis TL!   This is what we need more of, straight up gameplay talk.  One reason that you missed about why we use hop/jump CD because it puts the opponent in longer block stun than other normals which aids with his pressure game.

[Atb_555]

A couple things I noticed, his K stays really active. There's rarely a point where he's just sitting there, he'll either apply hop pressure, throw out lots of triggers

Thing is the console version of trigger feels much more slower now.  Even simple things like negating an opponents fb with trigger followed by second shot (f+B) you have to do much earlier.  And as you already have mentioned he can't cross up with j.B.  In fact I was finding it increasing difficult to cross up someone standing or crouching.  Otherwise the rest of the stuff you detailed is true you shouldn't really stand around like a lemon with K' defo have to be active and creative movement-wise and seize any opportunity gifted to you. 

[Kane317]

A couple things I noticed, his K stays really active. There's rarely a point where he's just sitting there, he'll either apply hop pressure, throw out lots of triggers

Thing is the console version of trigger feels much more slower now.  Even simple things like negating an opponents fb with trigger followed by second shot (f+B) you have to do much earlier.  And as you already have mentioned he can't cross up with j.B.  In fact I was finding it increasing difficult to cross up someone standing or crouching.  Otherwise the rest of the stuff you detailed is true you shouldn't really stand around like a lemon with K' anyone defo have to be active and creative movement-wise and seize any opportunity gifted to you.  

Fixed.  =)  

First of all, atb_555 great matches from TAC, I'm looking forward to the event coming up.

Secondly, how do you feel about K' now after playing with him in the console?

[tastylumpia]

Great analysis TL!   This is what we need more of, straight up gameplay talk.  One reason that you missed about why we use hop/jump CD because it puts the opponent in longer block stun than other normals which aids with his pressure game.

Oh yeah definitely, it's actually something I found out recently, I used a lot of jCD in my match against Reiki.

Thing is the console version of trigger feels much more slower now.  Even simple things like negating an opponents fb with trigger followed by second shot (f+B) you have to do much earlier.  And as you already have mentioned he can't cross up with j.B.  In fact I was finding it increasing difficult to cross up someone standing or crouching.  Otherwise the rest of the stuff you detailed is true you shouldn't really stand around like a lemon with K' defo have to be active and creative movement-wise and seize any opportunity gifted to you.  

Yeah, i was actually having a conversation the other day about habits, since trigger is extremely spammable now but will be toned down in console. General consensus seems to be use the tools available now and adjust accordingly when console drops.

[Atb_555]

A couple things I noticed, his K stays really active. There's rarely a point where he's just sitting there, he'll either apply hop pressure, throw out lots of triggers

Thing is the console version of trigger feels much more slower now.  Even simple things like negating an opponents fb with trigger followed by second shot (f+B) you have to do much earlier.  And as you already have mentioned he can't cross up with j.B.  In fact I was finding it increasing difficult to cross up someone standing or crouching.  Otherwise the rest of the stuff you detailed is true you shouldn't really stand around like a lemon with K' anyone defo have to be active and creative movement-wise and seize any opportunity gifted to you.  

Fixed.  =)  

First of all, atb_555 great matches from TAC, I'm looking forward to the event coming up.

Secondly, how do you feel about K' now after playing with him in the console?

Thanks I personally felt I didn't play as well tbh.  

The j.D nerf is like 2k2 / UM style which isn't so bad cos XIII Arcade version way too good.  Just need to whip it out earlier to catch someone air to air with it otherwise an early j.B will suffice if they are close enough.  But the trigger nerf is bad, its pretty hard to AA with second shell (f+D) follow up.  But if you burn meter it is easier.

Imo they made K' rely on meter more now for a lot of things: damaging combos, very good AAs, staying safe.  In arcade version he could do all of that without meter lol, so I would place him 2nd or 3rd position in light of these changes.  Lack of cross up makes me want to pull my hair out though as usually its given right in KoF to have a damn cross up even if it is hard to space.  In all fairness the cross up issue was with nearly every character its much hard to do not a change I like tbh.    

Thing is the console version of trigger feels much more slower now.  Even simple things like negating an opponents fb with trigger followed by second shot (f+B) you have to do much earlier.  And as you already have mentioned he can't cross up with j.B.  In fact I was finding it increasing difficult to cross up someone standing or crouching.  Otherwise the rest of the stuff you detailed is true you shouldn't really stand around like a lemon with K' defo have to be active and creative movement-wise and seize any opportunity gifted to you.  

Yeah, i was actually having a conversation the other day about habits, since trigger is extremely spammable now but will be toned down in console. General consensus seems to be use the tools available now and adjust accordingly when console drops.

I find you have to have more breathing space to really use trigger more effectively.  Definitely can't pressure Arcade style anymore.  Still need to experiment more to adjust to it.  

And his narrow spike being unsafe regardless of spacing is another change to really used to as it is only safe if you burn meter.  

[Reiki.Kito]

There's no point to characters that have built in cross-up mechanics if everyone can cross up real easy. Anyway, I think that's fine. Really, K' being good for everything at any given point was a bit crazy. Also, it gives him room to use more of his tools rather on relying on a few of them. For example, pushing people to the corner when they're knocked down using the blackout follow up so you can do full combos.  Less poking and more combo intensive.

Lets not forget that K', as far as we can tell, can cancel most of his moves from anything he throws out. Even far C is special cancellable when others are just super cancellable. So lets not raise red flags, he's still very good, but like Raiden, he has to be played with a bit more knowledge of his movelist and normal properties.

For me, I never really understood or took note of the things that made K' broken. I never committed to memory the exact science behind doing Ein Trigger 90 billion times and although it's simple, I never really wanted to do it. Since I can't now, it's not that big a loss. The Ein trigger AA is a problem, but with a lack of cross ups, it'd just be a dp+C substitute really.

[DJMirror949]

Here you go everyone: KOF XIII: K' combo tutorial - K Prime the Fallen Angel.


Credit goes to Don't Drop That Combo

[Reiki.Kito]

I checked it out and it's nice to see the variety of things you can do with him right now.

[Kane317]

First page has been updated with console changes.

---

*EX Ein trigger > 2nd shoot properties have been changed. The projectile hits twice and gradually increases in speed.
-Hit box and attack frames have been altered on j.B and j.D
*Air minute spike anywhere juggles
*Recovery improved on minute spike
-Recovery lengthened on Ein trigger – includes 2nd shoot/2nd shell
-Recovery lengthened for narrow spike when blocked
-Weak crow bites has less invincibility. Note that it is only upper body invincible.
-Minute spike properties changed (includes air). Move initiates at a consistent speed regardless of distance to the opponent.
*EX chain drive has special hit properties.

Yamamoto:
Although there are several nerfs, it is possible to score extra damage using air minute spike and the special hit properties on chain drive which was not possible in the arcade. You’ll be able to make up for the nerfs by jumping on chances to aggressively score additional damage. Worthy of special mention – EX 2nd shoot has been changed. It was often used to zone, but can now be used to gain the initiative from long distance.

[Atb_555]

The change to his minute spike is really off putting, it comes out so late.  I couldn't even land simple corner driver cancel combo. 

[Reiki.Kito]

Wow, that's going to make his juggle combos from DCs even harder. Well, I think you did pretty good today. Especially because Cristina is a pretty tough opponent.