Author Topic: Mai Shiranui (Arcade Version)  (Read 55829 times)

Rex Dart

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #150 on: October 06, 2011, 08:20:16 PM »
Would it be a good idea to use her DM to catch someone unaware in the air? Or should it be limited to following up air combos like Kyo's air Orochinagi (I've never seen him use it to catch someone mid-air)?
I asked the same question earlier in the thread, actually. The answer I got was that the recovery time on her air DM makes it a very risky move. The console version could change that. At the very least, the EX version might be a bit safer.

A safer aerial punish move would be her EX Musabi no Mai (air qcb+AC).

A new question: On counter hit against a jumping opponent, does EX Musabi no Mai lead into any combos?

Saitsuofleaves

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #151 on: October 06, 2011, 09:25:29 PM »
Well from what someone said about Console (can't remember who, might've been Frionel", apparently her Air DM is near Leona V-Slasher good.
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TheRook

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #152 on: October 07, 2011, 09:25:09 PM »
from the tech reference it seems you can only get another squirrel dive. 

Edit: i didnt know EX Squirrel dive goes in to her air DM...thats hype if you Max Cancel it too....
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 09:28:04 PM by TheRook »

Shiranui_ninja

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #153 on: October 27, 2011, 03:50:02 PM »
Would it be a good idea to use her DM to catch someone unaware in the air? Or should it be limited to following up air combos like Kyo's air Orochinagi (I've never seen him use it to catch someone mid-air)?
Yes, it can be used. I use it often for this. But you need a prudent distance. DM regular can be punished easily at the beginning. Also, in air is less damaging than in the ground. Most of time, I prefer an EX Musasabi as Musasabi follow up than her DM, because DM's damage scale is horribly in air and EX Musasabi can be follow up by her air grab in most of situations (which doesn't scale). EX air DM will be a great addition for Mai in console version.

A new question: On counter hit against a jumping opponent, does EX Musabi no Mai lead into any combos?
I must confess I'm not really sure about this... Maybe you need to be close to corner, because in mid-screen I don't see Mai catching a countered flying opponent with her EX or regular Musasabi (because of different trajectories), but I couldn't say it 100% sure.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 03:53:15 PM by Shiranui_ninja »
PSN: Shiranui_ninja
KOF XIII main team: Mai/King/Mature

Kane317

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #154 on: November 01, 2011, 05:53:42 AM »
A new question: On counter hit against a jumping opponent, does EX Musabi no Mai lead into any combos?

I must confess I'm not really sure about this... Maybe you need to be close to corner, because in mid-screen I don't see Mai catching a countered flying opponent with her EX or regular Musasabi (because of different trajectories), but I couldn't say it 100% sure.

I dunno how I missed the question Rex:  Yes, on counter hit it does lead to her normal corner combos but it of course depends on the height.

---

First page has been updated with console changes:

- Kaschousen comes out faster, also has quicker recovery
* Ukibane (down + B in air) has different trajectory than Arcade, recovery time has been changed
* Musasabi(from ground) can be canceled to Floating attack
* WK>FK is a chain combo. Can be used to connect into HD mode, and also gives Mai more damage on pokes
* EX air Shinobibachi added in game. Invincible until hit detection comes out.
- Crouching FP has more cancelable frames
- Weak Ryuenbu has more vertical hitbox
* Neomax comes out faster and freezes time when it reaches the edge of screen

Producer Yamamoto says: We’ve balanced her as a female ninja by giving her attacks that can make her fight more tricky from the air. Using Ukibane to trick the opponent and doing an attack string, or hit confirming from her crouching fierce punch have become effective tactics. Her Neomax has also been buffed.

mightfo

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #155 on: November 16, 2011, 09:40:45 PM »
It seems to me from footage that her ryuenbu is a bit better on block than it was in arcade. Unsure though.
Also, i like how she can use wallleap to combo after kachousen, haha, though thats probably not practical.
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darkTown2

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #156 on: November 18, 2011, 03:08:18 AM »
didn't they make  ;a ryuenbu's startup faster in some of the older changes before the ones with videos too? that plus a better hit box makes it better for block strings.
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Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #157 on: November 19, 2011, 02:05:22 AM »
I played a bit with console Mai the other night.

I'm not sure HOW they changed the trajectory on j. d + B (Ukibane) from the arcade version, because I'm not sure how exactly it behaved in that version, but it seems fairly serviceable in this version. The hitbox seems decent for stuffing many whiffed wakeup DPs, but the trajectory is still hard to control compared to, say, the 2k2 version. The minimum height and the point at which it will auto-correct if you cross someone up with a jump is difficult to eyeball. The move seems to have forward projection almost like the 2k2 version, but the changes to animations/hitboxes and movement speed in this game will make it weird to adjust to at first.

The move definitely seems safer on block, though, but it's still decidedly negative on block, even when spaced safely. You land too deep and you're definitely 1-frame throw punishable at minimum. Against opponents who don't know/don't have good fast punishes for the move, watch out for normal throws at that range.

The charge Musasabi no Mai cancel into Ukibane seems decent for an occasional mixup. It's certainly not ST Vega shenanigans, but you can do the move pretty early in the jump (not sure what the minimum height on Ukibane is), and the increased cancellable window on c. C makes it easier to confirm hit or block to switch to C/EX Ryuu Enbu or something if you hit from a jump-in.

In case it wasn't clear from the official video, the trajectory, frame data, and hitbox of Ukibane don't seem to change at all when cancelled from the charge d, u + P jump. As a result, its utility as a feint or an attack off the wall is pretty poor compared to just empty walldive or loaded walldive. Its best use seems to be early in the jump as a ghetto Flying Barcelona Attack. Seems like a good trick to have in your back pocket, but definitely not one to abuse.

A version Kacho Sen is really great in console. New recovery's great, but the startup is AMAZING. Much easier and safer to use for late fireball nullification and long-range anti-air now. The opponent is gonna need something serious stocked in order to blow up random Kacho Sens now.

A version Ryuu Enbu's new hitbox seems about the same as 2k2 version. Good times of mid-to-long-range anti-air are here again.

I didn't get to play much with her new s. B s. D chain, but one thing I can say is that it's pretty ass on whiff (if you CAN even whiff cancel it). No footsie fakeouts like Terry c. D (whiff) xx df + C here. A combo tool/blockstring and that's basically it.

I don't think she's gonna be beastly, but she definitely seems better than the arcade version now. Not much return for spending meter with her, but her zoning/runaway/general battery game seems to be back up to snuff. Still a strong 1st character to use to provoke and analyze your opponent so as to better blow them up with your later characters.

I think she might also be helped indirectly by the guard meter/defensive super meter changes in console. With the nerfs to huge guard crush strings like Andy's and the increased meter for defending, it seems like she'll be able to both block a little longer (important because her super-close-range anti-air is still pretty poor) and gain more regular access to CD/roll counter for when she's really in a tight spot. You'll still wanna sit on meter with Mai, I think, but you can afford to spend at least a little more to keep her alive longer if you're on a hot streak. She's still one of the most slept-on characters in KOF IMO.

Diavle

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #158 on: November 19, 2011, 04:37:00 AM »
^Thanks very much for the impressions man, can't wait to use her.

Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #159 on: November 20, 2011, 07:05:47 AM »
Played a bit more tonight. Finally beginning to understand why not many people play as Mai (not that I agree with this decision, mind you). Whether or not she wins many normal exchanges, particularly air-to-air and close-range anti-air, seems very spacing-dependent. In many cases I found it was far more consistent to evade close-range low jump attacks by doing c. B to make the opponent whiff, rather than risking a close C, getting a spacing/timing error, and losing the exchange outright.

She still seems to benefit immensely from the A Ryuu Enbu and A Kacho Sen buffs, though. A Ryuu Enbu in particular surprised me; I had to actually prove to people trying the game that A Ryuu Enbu didn't have low invincibility because I kept blowing people's c. Ds up with it when they tried to sweep me out of my corner pressure. The vulnerable hitbox at her feet seems to be a pretty safe distance behind her giant wall of flame. This was mostly tested against Kula and Kim's sweep. I'll have to wait for my copy to see if sweeps with a higher hitbox are stupid enough to trade with it (I'm looking at you, Terry). This seems good to know, because the move itself seems fairly safe to reaction rolls (if only because neutral rolls are so ludicrously slow), although I suspect that even spaced to beat sweeps, the move may lose to jump-ins from disadvantage.

Her NeoMAX is a LOT faster than I expected. I guess I should have figured that out when the video demonstrated it comboing from a c. C...but it's still pretty boss to blow up successful Kula fireball reflections on reaction with it. Pretty much any whiff more serious than a light attack seems fair game for a full-screen punish.

Ironreaver

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #160 on: November 20, 2011, 08:06:42 AM »
meed help with the timing on Mai's cr.lk x cr.lp x cr.hp   the timing between the cr.lp into cr. hp is really tight...i havent been able to get pass trial 3 or 8 since they start with that.  any pointers/tip on executing that link.

thanks

Kane317

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #161 on: November 20, 2011, 09:24:43 PM »
meed help with the timing on Mai's cr.lk x cr.lp x cr.hp   the timing between the cr.lp into cr. hp is really tight...i havent been able to get pass trial 3 or 8 since they start with that.  any pointers/tip on executing that link.

thanks

The d.A, d.C is a link, you just have to time the d.C after pressing the d.A.  Another way you can look at it is staring at the opponent, basically press d.A, watch as your opponent goes into hit stun and just before the recover, press d.C.  That visual cue has helped me with a lot of the harder links such as DL's f.AC into d.A in the arcade (which is super easy now).

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #162 on: November 21, 2011, 04:05:29 AM »
wow that's amazing... cr.B, cr.A, cr.C xx w/e is viable now? so Mai can finally hit confirm properly? along with all the other buffs... she seems to be an amazing battery now...
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Ironreaver

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #163 on: November 22, 2011, 06:01:24 AM »
meed help with the timing on Mai's cr.lk x cr.lp x cr.hp   the timing between the cr.lp into cr. hp is really tight...i havent been able to get pass trial 3 or 8 since they start with that.  any pointers/tip on executing that link.

thanks

The d.A, d.C is a link, you just have to time the d.C after pressing the d.A.  Another way you can look at it is staring at the opponent, basically press d.A, watch as your opponent goes into hit stun and just before the recover, press d.C.  That visual cue has helped me with a lot of the harder links such as DL's f.AC into d.A in the arcade (which is super easy now).

Thanks Kane I was actually trying to look for good visual cues and looking to get it consistently but I'll definitely try that tip out.  Thanks

been practicing it and getting the timing down...i notice that  cr.lp, cr.lp cr.hp links alot easier tho ^_^  back to work in the trng mode thanks again Kane
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 07:44:37 AM by Rex Dart »

Kazuhiro

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #164 on: November 23, 2011, 12:13:35 AM »
Been playing her since this morning and I also had trouble with this particular link. In matches, if I want to go for this link, I usually cancel the cr.C with either A Ryuenbu or C Kachosen to make the whole string safe at the end (C Shinobi Baichi is the most damaging move to cancel into, but if you miss the link it's really unsafe). By doing this, I either get a bootleg frame trap if I miss the cr.A, cr.C link or I get a full combo with A Ryuenbu/C Kachosen. This is only until I can get that link down 100% of the time, but it's not a bad thing to do.

Right now, my main meterless BnB is cr.B, cr.B, cr.A/st.A xx A Shinobi Baichi for 154 damage. Anyone has something better that is hit-confirmable? I sometime go for the simple cr.B, cr.B, st.B, st.D but it does less damage (1 point lower and doesn't carry the opponent to the corner).