Author Topic: Elisabeth Match Up Thread  (Read 1754 times)

Killey

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Elisabeth Match Up Thread
« on: May 27, 2013, 06:02:07 PM »
Okay, I've been trying to fill in Elisabeth's match up information within the Wiki but I figure it would be faster and more productive if the community worked together on this. I'll use the first post to summarize all key match up points and all important information will be posted on the wiki.

Andy Bogard
Ash Crimson
Athena Asamiya
Benimaru Nikaido
Billy Kane
Chin Gentsai
Clark Still
Duo Lon
Elisabeth Branctorche (mirror match)
Goro Daimon
Hwa Jai
Iori Yagami (Claw)
Iori Yagami (Flame)
Joe Higashi
K'
Kim Kaphwan
King
Kula Diamond
Kyo Kusanagi (XIII)
Kyo Kusanagi (NESTS)
Leona Heidern
Mai Shiranui
Mature
Maxima
Raiden
Ralf Jones
Robert Garcia
Ryo Sakazaki
Saiki
Shen Woo
Sie Kensou
Takuma Sakazaki
Mr. Karate
Terry Bogard
Vice
Yuri Sakazaki

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Match Up Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 06:15:04 PM »
Personally, I think Elisabeth's harder match ups are Daimon, King, Kim, Hwa Jai, Mr.Karate, EX Iori, and Kyo (both versions).

I think at least the King, Daimon, Hwa, and Kim match ups could get better with some additional information but not sure about Karate, Iori and Kyo. They just out prioritize Elisabeth's normals way too easily and can easily apply pressure on her.

In the wiki, I've posted the following information:

Andy Bogard

Blocked Zaneiken can be punished with Grand Rafale but the timing is tight.

Benimaru Nikaido

Benimaru's normals and specials have really good hit boxes on them, which allows him to control the space in front of him. On top of this, he has a really good DP, and 2 supers that are exceptional at anti-airing people. This makes approaching him head on difficult and you'll find that a lot of his attacks will out prioritize Elisabeth's unless you space and time your attacks properly. To fight Benimaru you really have to understand his best tool sets and the ways around them.

1) Stand B - This is an exceptional normal for his footsie game that acts as a good poke and a means to check hops. It has a fast start up and recovers quickly making it difficult to whiff punish Benimaru. During the neutral game, you'll have to position yourself just outside of stand B's range and use crouch D to trip him out of it. You can also use far stand D as a means to whiff punish his stand B; however, the timing is tricky but if far stand D connects you can transition into a HD combo if you have the meter. You can also fish for the counter hit with Etincelles at the same range. The other approach is to time a Coupe De Veine or hyper hop during the tail end of the active frames to either whiff punish him or force offensive momentum in your favor. Unfortunately, this is easier said than done as the recovery of stand B is fast and if you mistime your attack you'll get hit by stand B instead. You can also use Reverie-Prier to cause it to whiff than cancel into Coupe De Veine to whiff punish him. During the up close game, if you find the opponent is using stand B to check your hops then you can start using jumps and super jumps to throw their anti-air timing and spacing off.
2) Far Stand D - This carries a larger horizontal hit box than his stand B and has way more active frames but the start up and recovery is significantly slower than stand B. On block, he's completely safe from Elisabeth but he's at slight frame disadvantage, which basically resets things back to neutral. However, if spaced at max range he still out ranges you so you can't directly approach him after wards.
It goes over low attacks so this will beat out your crouch D's if they anticipate on you trying to trip their stand B's. It'll also beat out your Coup De Veine's with it's long active frames; however, readjusting the timing of your Coup De Veine can whiff punish his Far Stand D. Again, in the up close range, if they are throwing this move out as a means to preempt a hop, you can jump or super jump instead to cause it to whiff and either punish or force momentum back if your favor.
If you make the read on far stand D you can use Reverie-Geler to counter it, then do a full back turn combo while he's in the middle of the whiff animation.
3) Raijinken and Air Raijniken - Both of these control the space in front of him so if you mistime a jump in or a Coupe De Veine you'll end up getting hit by this. The recovery of the grounded Raijinken is pretty bad and he can actually be tripped (crouch D) out of it. You can also time a Coup De Veine to whiff punish him but the timing is pretty tight unless you're using the EX version to blow through it utilizing it's invincibility frames. The air Raijinken also has bad recovery as he has to wait until he touches the ground before he can block. If the opponent is throwing these out to control jump ins you can dash in and Coup De Veine them before they land. If an opponent starts doing block strings into Raijinken, you can actually EX Coup De Veine in between the last normal and Raijinken to punishim into a full combo.
4) Iado Kick - It has a fast start up and a good horizontal hit box on it. It has a follow up attack (d, u+K) that can be delayed to act as a frame trap. A lot of the top players will use Iado Kick as a means to check hops or catch people pushing buttons after certain attack strings so be aware of this. On block, you can punish with Grand Rafale and swing momentum into your favor.
5) Benimaru Lancer - The normal version is a vertical lightning strike on Benimaru while the EX version will home in on you briefly. The normal version is used to check jump ins but is something that's done proactively rather in reaction to your jump. The EX version takes some time before the lightning strike comes out but it's quick enough to catch people off guard. If you don't react quickly enough its better to just block it. Otherwise, the most optimal way to punish this is to run towards Benimaru and then roll forwards at the last minute. The lightning will whiff and you'll be able to land a punish on Benimaru depending on the spacing. You could also use EX Coup De Veine to avoid the lightning strike and hit Benimaru.
6) Jump D - One of the best jumping normals in the game, it carries a ridiculous horizontal hit box on it that will out prioritize a lot of Elisabeth's jumping normals. It's also his best jumping normal to cross up with and it crosses up incredibly easily, so be aware of this. You can try to avoid the cross up with a roll, anti-airing it with close s.C/D (mixed results depending on timing and spacing), or jumping out with a preemptive j.C/D/CD (mixed results depending on timing and spacing). In air-to-air battles, you can do an early jump C at closer ranges to beat his jump D before it comes out. Otherwise, you'll need to position yourself higher than Benimaru in order to beat out his jump D with Elisabeth's jumping normals. This is difficult to do as Benimaru's jump arc is higher than Elisabeths.
During the neutral game, you'll want to remain within a character space away from Benimaru, and utilize neutral hop/jump D to control his air approaches. If the Benimaru player starts using jump D at higher altitudes to beat your air-to-air approaches, you can use Etincelle or crouch B to anti-air him. Also, EX Reverie-Geler comes into play if the Benimaru player is being overly aggressive with jump D's, as this counter his jump D and net you a back turn combo into a safe jump reset.

Billy Kane

Billy has some of the best normals in the game that can create a wall of hit boxes, making it difficult for Elisabeth to approach and pressure him. That being said, some of Billy's long range pokes and pressuring tools have lengthy recovery time though he's completely safe on block with a lot of these moves; however, if he whiffs these moves he's susceptible to punishment. This requires you to make good reads on the Billy player's attack patterns to create offense but doing this is easier said than done.

Billy's best pokes from mid-range is his hcf+P, c.A, b+A, f+A, j.C, and j.CD. There's not a lot you can do to maneuver around these pokes and jumping on Billy is very difficult with Elisabeth, as her normals don't have the range and angles to compete with Billy's. Billy's c.B has good recovery on it so he can go transition to his c.C quickly to anti-air hop attempts on reaction. He can also cancel his c.C into f+A, creating a very effective wall of hit boxes to prevent you from pressuring him. It's difficult going air-to-air vs Billy because his j.C and j.CD have very large hit boxes but usually only covering a diagonal down approach. Ideally, you're looking to be above Billy's j.C and j.CD with Elisabeth's j.D, as it carries the most horizontal range.

Billy's hcf+P is a pretty quick and long range poke that can catch you out of your typical approaches. The A version is meant for poking, while the C+EX versions are usually meant for combos. Ideally, you're looking to space yourself just outside of his hcf+A or C range and throw out A Etincelles. If he does hcf+P at the wrong range he'll get hit by Etincelle and that'll give you an opportunity to close the distance on Billy. His hcf+A is safe on block but has limited range so it's a bit easier spacing yourself outside of the range. If the opponent opts to poke with the C or EX versions you should wait briefly to see if they will follow up with qcf+P then guard cancel roll forwards. If you see the qcf+P follow up you should guard cancel roll forward and then punish with a full combo. If they don't opt for the qcf+P follow up the guard cancel roll will at least get you closer to Billy, which is half the battle.
Reverie-Geler is, surprisingly, a really good tool in this match up. If it counters his hcf+P or f+A, Billy is committed to the move, which nets you a back turned combo into a cross up/safe jump setup.

You'll want to avoid getting stuck in the corner against Billy because his f+A, c.B, c.C, j.C, and j.CD are really good tools at just keeping you in the corner. Billy's f+A will keep you locked down and if they read a jump to escape the corner his j.C or j.CD will beat most anything you throw out. It's extremely bad if you get Counter Hit by his j.CD in the corner, as it allows him to transition into a full combo. At this point, you're really just looking to guard cancel roll or guard cancel blow back out. Alternatively, you can use Reverie-Geler to try and turn things around but there's a significant amount of risk/reward with this move.

Duo Lon

Duo Lon's overall game plan is to utilize his quick movement and ranged pokes to force a reaction from you so he can create offensive momentum by punishing rash play. What really dictates this match up is the neutral game and who can create offensive momentum.

In the neutral game, Duo Lon has a slight advantage, as he's faster than Elisabeth and has more range on his attacks; however, he doesn't hit very hard and his mix ups are pretty straight forward. Duo Lon gets the brunt of the damage by annoying you and capitalizing off of your mistakes if you get flustered. As long as you understand his tool sets and remain calm you can usually turn the match in your favor once you you contain him.

His j.CD carries a really good horizontal hit box so you can't really challenge him with Elisabeth aerial normals unless you make the read and go for a preemptive j.A or j.D. because she hits harder and has better mix ups. Jump CD doesn't carry as good of a lower hit box on it and most Duo Lon players will use j.CD preemptively to win air-to-air battles. This means you should be on the look out for c.B anti-airs into Coup De Vent combos to start your offensive momentum. Once you've demonstrated that you can anti-air their j.CD's you'll need to be on the look out for j.f+B or j.D. When they start using these aerial normals, you'll be able to play the air-to-air game with j.D as it carries better horizontal hit boxes than Duo Lon's j.f+B and j.D.

Duo Lon doesn't have any good reversal or anti-air options and is susceptible to extended pressure. His best normals for anti-airs are s.A, s.C, s.D, and c.C but the majority of them have slow start ups and can be stuffed with correct timing and spacing. His c.C is probably his best anti-air against normal and super jumps but it's slow on start up and has lengthy recovery time; baiting this out can net a good whiff punish. Otherwise, the Duo Lon player will need to make certain gambles such as a preemptive super jump CD or an EX command dash.

Duo Lon's rekkas carry a pretty good hit box on them and can be used to preemptively anti-air hops, similar to how EX Iori uses his Rekkas as a poking/pressure tool. However, Duo Lon's game doesn't really incorporate this strategy unlike EX Iori. It's something you should be aware of but it's not something that you'll see very often.
All of his rekkas are unsafe on block but he can mitigate this by using his qcf+K command dash after the 3rd rekka. The thing you need to understand is that he can't really frame trap between the first and second rekka like other characters can because the period at which he can cancel into his second rekka is pretty tight and still creates a true block string when delayed. After the first Rekka, the most optimal punish is c.B into HD activation but without any HD meter you're only looking at interrupting him to create offensive momentum. You can mash on c.B when you block the first rekka and not worry about getting frame trapped until after you block the second rekka. Very rarely will someone stop after the second rekka, as it's heavily punishable on block so they'll either immediately do the third rekka into command dash or delay the third rekka to try and frame trap you. It's best to just wait for the third rekka to gauge how the opponent plays. In any case the command dashes are punishable so it's usually just best to wait and react to it.

Punishing Command Dash (QCF+K) after blocked rekkas:
1) B Version - You can punish the recovery of the B version of the command dash with EX Coup De Vent or Grand Rafale. The most optimal punish is the EX Coup De Vent, as you can transition into a full combo from there.
2) D Version - You can throw Duo Lon out of the start up of the D version of the command dash, as it has a longer start up than the B version but travels outside the range of Coup De Vent and Grand Rafale. It's difficult to visually confirm whether the opponent is doing the B or D version of the command dash; however, you can mash on throw after the third rekka and then react with EX Coup De Vent if the throw didn't come out.
3) EX Version - Much like the D version of the command dash you can throw Duo Lon out of the start up. The EX Version of the command dash is very punishable during it's recovery and depending on the range you can get a close s.C combo starter. Any version of Coup De Vent or Grand Rafale will punish the EX command dash that is outside of s.C range. The only thing that makes EX command dash tricky to punish is that it's fast on start up and not something you expect.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 06:49:37 PM by Killey »

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Match Up Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 06:15:18 PM »
Elisabeth Branctorche

Blocked A Coup De Vent can be punished with Grand Rafale. Blocked C or EX Coup De Vent can be punished with far stand C xx C Coup De Vent or far stand C into HD activation.

Kim Kaphwan

Kim's qcb+B (Hangetsuzan) when spaced at max range is safe on block; however, if the opponent does it too close you can punish with Grand Rafale DM, c.A xx DP+A, or c.A, HD activation. Be weary of frame trap/gimmicks of Kim's doing max spaced qcb+B into d, u+K when you try to punish. The D version of Hangetsuzan, on block, can be punished with DP+A or EX DP into a full combo. Understand the ranges and punish accordingly.

There's a few ways to stuff a Hangetsuzan if you anticipate on it. First way is to time a late DP+C or EX DP to utilize the start up invincibility. Second way is to utilize the invincibility frames of EX QCF+K then cancel into into Mistral and then transition into a full combo. Third way is to counter it with QCB+P, which will net you a huge punish. Final way is to do a Reverie-Prier (qcb+K) and then cancel into Etincelle (qcf+P) to stuff the Hangetsuzan, you can transition into a full juggle combo from this, as it'll be a counter hit.

Kim has several 3+ frame safe jumps after his Air QCB+B, Air QCB+D, d~u+D~d+D, d~u+BD, Throw and Neomax. He also has a 2 frame safe jump off of a corner throw as well. Never try a reversal EX Coup De Vent (DP+AC) on wake up after getting knocked down by any of the above otherwise you'll get punished for it. You can try a EX Reverie-Souhaiter xx EX Mistral but remember that Elisabeth can be hit during the slide animation. What will beat all of his safe jump setups, though, is EX Reverie-Geler; it has a 1 frame start up special. That being said, if you get too predictable or the opponent reads this they can just empty jump and then punish with pretty much anything including an HD combo.

Kim's far stand D is a two kick attack and is one of his best overall normals that cover a variety of situations. The first kick whiffs on crouching but goes under low attacks; the second kick hits mid and leaves him at +3 on block. You never want to get hit by this move grounded, as he can link c.B/s.C after wards into a hard knockdown that will start his safe jump pressure or lead into an HD combos. It anti-airs small hops, normal jumps, or comes out as a close s.D option select that can anti-air normal and super jumps. It's also a good frame trap tool for him. Overall, it's a very annoying normal to deal with if you're not familiar with it.
This being said, if you know the properties of this normal you can play around it or stuff it. The key thing to remember about Kim's far stand D is that the first hit whiffs on crouching and goes over lows. This means he's susceptible to crouching mid attacks so the easiest way to deal with far stand D pressure is to use c.A or c.C to hit him out of it. Always buffer in the Coup De Vent motion so you can easily hit confirm after wards. The other ways to deal with far stand D is to time an EX Coup De Vent, EX Reverie-Souhaiter xx EX Mistral, or EX Reverie-Geler in between the first and second kick. It's tricky to time but remember to use the button hold technique to make the timing easier. Alternatively, if you anticipate the far stand D you can use A Reverie-Geler to counter it than punish with far s.C xx C Coup De Veine.

None of Elisabeth's safe jump set ups will work on Kim because his flash kick special is too fast.

King

King is a very frustrating match up for Elisabeth, as you want to rush her down but her zoning game is hard to get around without any meter. Elisabeth does have the tools to fight King but the key thing to remember during the match up is not to fall into Kings pacing.

To deal with Venom Strike zoning from full screen, slowly approach King and use Etincelles to nullify the projectiles. King can either sit back and start alternating the timing of her fireballs to throw you off or follow her fireball and try to read/react to your actions. If King continues to throw fireballs alternate between A and C Etincelles while moving forward, and don't get too worried if you get hit by several fireballs. If you get hasty after getting hit by a few fireballs you'll fall into her pacing.

Once you are closer to King you can start using C or EX Coup De Vent to go through and punish the fireballs. A useful but tricky method to punish normally safe Venom Strikes is to use the forward momentum and kara-cancel properties of her stand CD to extend the range of C/EX Coup De Vent. Another way to punish Venom Strikes to is to use EX Reverie-Souhaiter to phase through the fireball and then cancel into a EX Coup De Vent. Combining this with the stand CD Kara-cancelling technique will greatly extend your punishment range against King.

If King starts following her fireballs you'll have to worry about max spaced D Tornado Kicks, s.C/D, df.D, j.CD, j.D, or air Venom Strikes. If you nullify the Venom Strike, you should be able to block anything she does after wards.
If King does a max spaced D Tornado Kick you can punish with Grand Rafale but you should be able to react in time with A/EX Reverie Geler or A Etincelle. If they spaced their D Tornado Kick properly you should be countering the 2nd hit of the kick, in which you can punish after wards with A Coup De Veine into a back turn combo. If they didn't space it properly and you counter the 1st hit, you can punish with C Coup De Veine into a back turn combo. However, if you end up blocking the full 2 hits of Tornado Kick you get a full combo punish after wards.

King will use s.C/D, j.D/CD, or Air Venom Strikes to counter any jump attempts you do against the incoming Venom Strike. It's best to Etincelle the Venom Strike and depending on their position you may have an opportunity to punish their incorrect read.

Typical block string for King is c.B, c.B, s.B, df+D xx Venom Strike. The universal punish is to do a late guard cancel roll on the df+D so that you give enough time for your opponent to cancel and commit to a Venom Strike. If they cancel into Venom Strike you'll roll through the Venom Strike and be able to punish their recovery. Alternatively, you can wait until you see the Venom Strike come out and then do a reversal EX Coup De Vent to punish King. The df+D is punishable on block if they don't cancel into a special after wards; however, that's part of the mind game.

One thing to note is that King's hitbox is smaller than other characters so some back turn cross up setups don't get work on her.

Kyo Kusanagi (XIII)

One of Kyo's risky block strings is c.A, c.B, df+D (1st hit) xx Kai (QCF+K). Kai can be punished between the first and second kick with EX Coup De Vent, EX Reverie-Geler, EX/Noble Blac, and Neo Max. You can also delay a guard cancel roll on the df+D before they cancel into Kai, then run up and punish him during the recovery of Kai. You'll also get the added benefit of landing the combo with their back turned, allowing for a cross up setup after wards. The best option depends on how much meter and drive Elisabeth has at the time; however, EX Reverie-Geler and EX Coup De Vent are more ideal if you have less meter plus both options gives you a free cross up setup.

Ryo Sakazaki

This is a match up that can be difficult if you're not familiar with Ryo's tool set. Overall, Ryo is a simple character with very straight forward but effective tools. Knowing the spacing game is very important in the match up, as it's key to knowing how to effectively defend and punish him.

During the neutral game, Ryo has the advantage with his long ranged pokes that have long active frames. He can also create a wall of hit boxes in front of him with normal whiff cancels into fireballs, which prevents Elisabeth from getting in easily. Poorly spaced/timed jumps will get you hit by his fireball or his DP so don't recklessly rush in. The best thing to do in the neutral game is to build meter with Etincelles and slowly approach Ryo. The ideal range you want to be at is just outside of his fireball range (factor in the increase range he gets from whiff cancelling into his fireballs) and just wait for him to whiff a fireball. Once he whiffs a fireball you can punish with Coup De Vent and then take the offensive momentum. If you block a max ranged s.D xx C Fireball you can EX Coup De Vent in between. Normally, they'll have to do C Fireball at that range as A Fireball will whiff leaving them expose to a Coup De Vent punish. If they do s.D xx C Fireball at point blank range you can punish with close s.C into your combo of choice. Elisabeth's safe jump setups are really helpful during this match up, as it prevents Ryo from trying to reversal out of your mix ups, allowing for sustained offense.

When Ryo is on the offensive be careful with your pokes as he might just run up parry xx DP or do a random EX Hienshippukyaku to blow through them. Slightly pausing in ideal poke situations will let you bait out the parry or the Hienshippukyaku, allowing for big punishes. His jump CD has a really good horizontal and diagonal hit box on it. It's extremely good in air-to-air situations, as well as a means for him to approach. If the opponent is abusing j.CD to control the air-to-air game than it's best to play defensive and look for an opportunity to anti-air c.B. Alternatively, you can try to counter with any of Elisabeth's EX reversal options.

In the corner, Ryo can apply a lot of pressure and create guard break strings utilizing s.C/D xx Fireball. If you find that the Ryo player is going for a guard break with this, you can back dash after the fireball. If they decide to throw another s.C/D xx Fireball you'll get hit by the s.C/D during the back dash causing the fireball to whiff, and leaving Ryo open for punishment. Alternatively, you can EX Reverie-Souhaiter after the blocked fireball and if they throw out another s.C/D you'll phase through the attack, allowing you to punish with EX Mistral.

Sie Kensou

You have to be very careful of Kensou's fireball zoning game and not fall into the traps. At certain ranges, Kensou can recover from his fireball and follow behind it to try to force you to make a bad decision against this wall of hit boxes. If you attempt to jump after Kensou throws the fireball, he'll be able to DP you for free. You can use Etincelle's to nullify the projectile and put up a wall against Kensou's approaches. If Kensou tries to follow up the fireball with a normal xx fireball block string, you can EX Coup De Veine in between to punish him severely for being predictable.

Kensou's rekka string is not safe at all but he can create the frame trap game by adding delays between the rekkas. After the first rekka, you can crouch B into an HD combo, otherwise the crouch B is just a means to interrupt Kensou. If they do the second rekka, you get a free close stand C combo starter. At this point the Kensou player is committed to the rekka string and will try to add delays in between the 2nd and 3rd rekka, which causes a hard knockdown. However, the 3rd rekka has a bit of a start up on it, as he takes to the air. You can use close stand C as a means to anti-air him out of the 3rd Rekka. If you mistime the stand C you can either lose or trade with the 3rd rekka. If you block the 3rd rekka you can dash in do a close stand C combo starter.

His Ryusogeki can be used to check jump ins and is pretty useful with his fireball zoning/lockdown game. The C version is completely unsafe and lets you get a free combo after wards but the A version is completely safe and it's hard to tell the difference between the two versions. In most cases, it's better off to not try and punish it because if it's the A version, the opponent could go for a gimmick DP/EX DP to beat out any button you throw out.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 06:20:16 PM by Killey »