Author Topic: KOF XIII 10th General Thread: America on Top (@EVO2013), Everyone Back to Work!  (Read 82787 times)

Coffeeling

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If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.


I agree with this. I love playing KOFXIII but one of my main grips is that it is extremely combo focused and dominate. All you need to do in KOFXIII is just hit confirm well then not drop the HD combo. In '98/'02 it's a more spacial game, you can win just off poking, good zoning, good pressure, good mind games and bnb's....you can do a little bit of that in KOFXIII but it can all go to waste if you screw up and get hit once against someone that has a decent amount of meters. >_<

The "you just have to hit confirm well and not drop the HD combo" is an exaggeration and you know it. HD combos aren't a factor for the first character, and usually for either the second or the third one. The lesser emphasis on single hits still stands, though, but especially in the early rounds shorter combos can do just fine, and even later on something like button, button, EX super can do 400-500 easy, two bars no drive. If your neutral game is really superior, you can easily kill the opponent with easymode stuff.

I was referring mainly to the 2nd or 3rd person of a team. The first character just builds meter and momentum. If they stick around, they can surely blow the meter to finish the match. When a character in a 2nd or 3rd position has full drive and full meters, all they need to do is land one hit into a high damaging HD combo of their choice...that's the preferred option.

For sure. But for the most part, it's one character. 2 HD combos in one match is a pretty hard thing to score. For the other, it's more or less just normal neutral game, which is the thing I'm trying to get at. The combos dominate one round, not the whole match.

desmond_kof

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For sure. But for the most part, it's one character. 2 HD combos in one match is a pretty hard thing to score. For the other, it's more or less just normal neutral game, which is the thing I'm trying to get at. The combos dominate one round, not the whole match.

Hmm, I kinda have a feeling you haven't had much high level experience or have played very many good players from your replies and responses. No offense man.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Coffeeling

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For sure. But for the most part, it's one character. 2 HD combos in one match is a pretty hard thing to score. For the other, it's more or less just normal neutral game, which is the thing I'm trying to get at. The combos dominate one round, not the whole match.

Hmm, I kinda have a feeling you haven't had much high level experience or have played very many good players from your replies and responses. No offense man.

Excellent observation: I'm indeed a beginner at KOF. That doesn't mean I lack eyes and a brain, or experience in how games and their systems tend to work from elsewhere. You're better than me at this game, by far. But would you still mind dignifying me with an actual response? Because "you're new, so I'm right" is precisely offensive. I've been corrected by better players in many areas, in discussions on many games, and you know what? It's been great. Great because those better players have told me at length why they feel I'm wrong. The argument has never been that they're right because they just know better. The argument has been they're right because [a coherent argument].
Turns out that they're right a lot of the time.

desmond_kof

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For sure. But for the most part, it's one character. 2 HD combos in one match is a pretty hard thing to score. For the other, it's more or less just normal neutral game, which is the thing I'm trying to get at. The combos dominate one round, not the whole match.

Hmm, I kinda have a feeling you haven't had much high level experience or have played very many good players from your replies and responses. No offense man.

Excellent observation: I'm indeed a beginner at KOF. That doesn't mean I lack eyes and a brain, or experience in how games and their systems tend to work from elsewhere. You're better than me at this game, by far. But would you still mind dignifying me with an actual response? Because "you're new, so I'm right" is precisely offensive. I've been corrected by better players in many areas, in discussions on many games, and you know what? It's been great. Great because those better players have told me at length why they feel I'm wrong. The argument has never been that they're right because they just know better. The argument has been they're right because [a coherent argument].
Turns out that they're right a lot of the time.

I'm going to let you experience what you said I was exaggerating about. Just keep playing the game.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

azunadrop

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For sure. But for the most part, it's one character. 2 HD combos in one match is a pretty hard thing to score. For the other, it's more or less just normal neutral game, which is the thing I'm trying to get at. The combos dominate one round, not the whole match.

Whilst getting 2 HD combos in one round is certainly rare, getting 2 HD combos within two consecutive rounds from the same character isn't due to how meter gain works in KOF13. In KOF13, it seems that you generally gain meter quicker than older KOF games overall (note that I've only played 98' and 2k2UM so my KOF knowledge is relatively limited) from pressuring your opponent, blocking or the immense amount of meter you get for getting hit which all plays a significant role in how KOF13 gets played.

With the reduced requirements to do big damage with HD mode and meter gain adjustments from arcade KOF13 to console KOF13/Climax/Steam versions, it promotes conversions into big damage from normals (confirmed from either strings, jump attacks or stray hits) which further eventuates the "1st person to land a combo and do big damage" mantra as you can see here, and it is most definitely true with the numerous ways to land HD combos. Thus, it is not that far-fetched to view it as a form of compensation that is absent from previous entries in the KOF series.

However, with more meter resources to spend on and introduction of EX moves, it also makes defense options more apparent and maybe relied on depending on the type of player or/and the amount of unfavourable situations the player gets into and still have the resources to land a long damaging combo since HD uses a separate meter bar rather than say Max Mode in 2k2UM (where it uses the same meter bar to perform long combos with) in which it lends a hand in reducing opportunity cost of combos which some players may get annoyed by. Therefore, this could be also be perceived as another act of compensation by the game system.

Overall, the game can be sudden and hard hitting and one poor choice may cost everything which is something that you have to deal with in KOF13. There are different ways to play KOF13 but the points that I've mentioned before are things you'll learn to accept and adapt regardless of how well players can play the neutral game. It is just how the game is.

I hope this explains why some people generally get annoyed with KOF13 every now and then (although I didn't cover on normals and their damage/frames/hitboxes because I want to stop typing lol) or plain dislike it (though I don't speak for everyone of course), Coffeeling and I hope I make sense too. Have a good day and have fun with the game. :)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 12:11:15 PM by azunadrop »

Light13

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Got this annoying graphic glitch where I can't see characters in the character/order select been living with it for months but its starting to annoy me. Anyone know a fix for this? I tried some things posted on the steam forum but didn't work.

desmond_kof

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For those interested in watching the Global ID Tournament, here is a schedule with timezone differences and major cities with times

http://imgur.com/ARP1GOf

The stream will be on the cafeid stream at http://www.twitch.tv/cafeid
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

kin3tix

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How convenient. Thanks for that link!

selfReg

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this tournament is gonna be sick.
KOFXIII: N-Robert, Ryo, R2 Takuma


PureYeti

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Looks like I will be awake for sfiv teams first

Killey

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KoF top 8 is  going to be at 2am on Sunday for me. :(

selfReg

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looks like they streamed some '98 yesterday. Oh my days.
KOFXIII: N-Robert, Ryo, R2 Takuma


Coffeeling

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Holy shit Tokido. That is all. o_o

solidshark

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Damn, we missed something good on April 1st.

http://www.orochinagi.com/2014/04/new-kofxiii-dlc

Only cosmetic (Karate masks for everyone) and only on Steam, but would've been nice. Did anyone actually get in on this?
"You had guts kid; now clean them up off the pavement"
-Terry Bogard, 1995

Frofighter

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Holy shit Tokido. That is all. o_o

So it doesn't seem like we're having much of a reaction to the tournament or to Tokido winning it for some reason.... was his win that predictable? The man's been admittedly on a steady rise in KOF, and had already beaten MadKOF prior to the Cafe ID tourney. With Evo coming up I think Tokido has cemented his place as a contender to win the whole thing. Also, I sincerely believe he plays the most efficient and effective Mr. Karate right now.

The odd thing is that all they hype about Japanese players before went to the "pure" KOF players like Haregoro and Kaoru, but Tokido is looking so incredibly strong right now.

Another potential takeaway from the tournament was the character choice.... Every non-conventional character choice was usually ineffectual. Even ET's hyped-up Clark didn't seem to do all that well. A couple Daimon OCVs happened, sure, but it seems like most players have completely gravitated to the pantheon of top characters that have defined KOF XIII tournaments for a while now. Can't blame them, either. I guess I'll forever wish to see Terry make a KOF major top 8. :(
"NO PROBREM!" -Terry, KOF 2002/UM