Author Topic: Leona Heidern (Arcade Version)  (Read 62984 times)

Sharnt

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #150 on: October 25, 2011, 10:45:41 PM »
What do you need?

d.B,s.B,f.B,qcb.A (qcb.C,d~u.C in corner)
nj.D,qcf hcb.A (instant overhead, do 2368+D 63214+A)
d.B,s.B,f.B,qcf hcb.A
Anti-air : d~u.C,(DC)b~f.B,d~u.A,qcf hcb.AC (you can option select this, always do the move and then try to drive cancel it, if it hit you drive cancel, if it miss or is blocked you don't drive cancel ...)
j.C,s.D,qcb hcf.B
j.C,s.D,b~f.B,qcf hcb.A (Corner)
j.C,s.D,d~u.C,(DC)b~f.B,d~u.A,qcf hcb.AC (Corner) (I don't remember very accurately but i guess you can do this, without the last d~u.A i'm 100% sure)

And i guess it's the most important, except the hd mode which consist on a (DC)b~f.B,d~u.A loop in corner.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 09:26:54 AM by Sharnt »
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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #151 on: October 26, 2011, 11:08:48 AM »
what do u think about her console version ?
seems heavily nerfed to me the only buff is about her dm

omegaryuji

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #152 on: October 26, 2011, 02:32:22 PM »
nj.D,qcf hcb.A (instant overhead, do 2368+D 63214+A)
Don't forget that you can combo V-slasher off of j.A now, too: qcf~u/f+A, d/f~b+A (2369+A,34+A) or qcfx2~u/f+A, b+A (2362369+A,4+A).  Easier than using nj.D, and a little safer if you mess up to get h.A or hh.A than nj.D.

what do u think about her console version ?
seems heavily nerfed to me the only buff is about her dm
So far, the changes I've heard of are:

- Overall damage reduced (main HD combo does about 10% less damage)
- Voltec Launcher [(b)~f+A/C] chips less guard meter
- Strike Arch [f+B] comes out faster
- Fierce V-Slasher [j.qcf~hcb+C] has different angle; weak travels short, fierce goes far. EX version is the same as the arcade.
- Ground Saber [(b)~f+B/D] has longer recovery when blocked. About even when fierce version gets blocked.
- Moon Slasher [(d)~u+A/C] has less hitback when blocked. All of them (weak, fierce, EX) are easier to get punished than the arcade.
- EX X-Caliber [j.qcb+AC] comes out faster. Still can't be comboed from a normal or direction attack.

To me, that sounds about even overall, maybe slightly nerfed.  Obviously, losing damage sucks, but the change is pretty small.  Taking less guard meter with the cheeseball isn't that big of a deal to me since I mostly only use that when zoning against characters without projectiles.  Faster f+B is a nice buff (pretty safe on block except against instant command grabs, overhead, hard knockdown, and now faster?!), gives her a way of cracking open defenses without having to spend meter on an instant overhead~V-slasher combo.  V-slasher being back to how it worked in 2002 is fine with me (lets her contol more of the screen from the air once she has meter).  Slower recovery for ground saber is kind of lame, but from the way it's worded, it sounds like it's still safe (except maybe against instant command grabs), and 4leaf said that the HD loop still worked midscreen in the EVO build (just harder, probably due to longer recovery), so again, not a huge issue for me since that move belongs in combos anyway.  Same with the changes to moon slasher.  EX X-calibur coming out faster sounds like it'll be a lot easier to use for oki setups, especially combined with the increased chance of having a hard knockdown thanks to the faster f+B.

So, yeah, overall, it looks like a bunch of little tweaks that will still leave her as a strong character.
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SAB-CA

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #153 on: October 26, 2011, 06:36:44 PM »
what do u think about her console version ?
seems heavily nerfed to me the only buff is about her dm

For my take, as a traditional Leona player, I've always thought her damage and options looked much better than average in XIII. Strike Arch being able to combo off lights was such a nice change, Slash Saber DM could combo easily from any Grand Saber hits, and the 2 version of normal X-Calibur in the air were something I always wanted, really.

Coming from XII, I was worried she'd lose some of her Corner-combo power, but she seems to have made up for it very well. While many characters loss the "buffs" the CC system brought to their combos, Leona pretty much ported hers over to HD without a hitch.

And then coming from XIII Arcade, to XIII Console, she seems to have recieved the same kind of "weakening of 'unfair' tactics, buffing of legit meter-dependent tactics" that other characters recieved. Also, SNKP seems to be trying to make people depend on a broader span of tactics, so they've taken away some "too good" properties of moves, to make you use something else also. So I think she's pretty par for the course, though I wouldn't have minded a normal buff here or there (hop C made into an even stronger crossup? Standing B -> Far C Chain combo for HD confirms / grand saber combos? Chain into crouch D for a knockdown mixup combo?), or a return of her air throw for good measure.

Two things I personally would have liked also, would be to have seem a form of her "Earring Bakudan" turned into the old "heart attack!" bomb plant (is the current B bakudan really useful?), or a variation of it, and to see Slash Saber either get fireball invulnerability (since she USED to be able to run under fireballs with Grand Saber / running anyway...), or to get an EXDM version of the move that had such (with an Orochi-infused howl animation for the end, for good measure...)

She might have had something added that just wasn't mentiond, though! But I think she sounds like a very solid character on consoles, but the fan in me would have always liked more! :)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 06:38:29 PM by SAB-CA »

Kane317

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #154 on: October 27, 2011, 04:22:38 AM »
nj.D,qcf hcb.A (instant overhead, do 2368+D 63214+A)

Don't forget that you can combo V-slasher off of j.A now, too: qcf~u/f+A, d/f~b+A (2369+A,34+A) or qcfx2~u/f+A, b+A (2362369+A,4+A).  Easier than using nj.D, and a little safer if you mess up to get h.A or hh.A than nj.D.

From page 2:
(Apparently, all qcf~hcb motions can be performed like qcf~qcf~b)
- qcf x2~up+D --> (buffers the V-Slasher) b+P
I dunno which one works (maybe they all do so I'll post this)
- qcf~up+D --> hcb+P EDIT: This one seems work better than the first.
- qcf~down~up+D --> qcb+P

---
In general, yes the hyperhop A is a lot easier to do but in terms of spacing, it's not as good as a mix up as you have to be at least one-d.B-distance away for the hh.A to hit (which means you can't do d.B, s.B -->), the vertical D is nastier as you can do it right next to them yet still have a good d.B option.

Of course only time will tell, but she does *feel* like she got hit harder with a nerf stick than others.  We'll have to seen in the next few weeks.

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #155 on: October 27, 2011, 06:11:24 AM »
d.B,s.B,f.B,qcb.A (C in corner)

In the corner, can you do

d.B,s.B,f+B, air qcb+C, d_u+A ? I know you can do d_u+AC, but can't remember if A worked.

This was my favorite Leona corner combo. With some DC, and a DM finisher, it does some serious damage and looks awesome.

Leona should be okay in the console version. Still don't think the nerfs were justified. Definitely mid-tier though.

Kane317

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #156 on: October 27, 2011, 08:13:55 AM »
In the corner, can you do

d.B,s.B,f+B, air qcb+C, d_u+A ? I know you can do d_u+AC, but can't remember if A worked.

Yep, only Ex or A version C version Moon Slasher connects after C X-Calibur in the corner.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 06:46:22 PM by Kane317 »

FataCon

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #157 on: October 27, 2011, 08:38:19 AM »
In the corner, can you do

d.B,s.B,f+B, air qcb+C, d_u+A ? I know you can do d_u+AC, but can't remember if A worked.

Yep, only Ex or A version Moon Slasher connects after C X-Calibur in the corner.

...or you can be cool and go for a reset ;)

Sharnt

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #158 on: October 27, 2011, 09:26:18 AM »
For me it's easier to hit the opponent with nj.D than A, better hitbox and feeling with the move, and for the corner combo i forgot the moon slasher C :
d.B,s.B,f.B,qcb.C,d~u.C
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Kane317

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #159 on: October 27, 2011, 06:46:52 PM »
For me it's easier to hit the opponent with nj.D than A, better hitbox and feeling with the move, and for the corner combo i forgot the moon slasher C :
d.B,s.B,f.B,qcb.C,d~u.C

Oops got them mixed up, only C Moon Slasher, I stand corrected.

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #160 on: October 27, 2011, 09:05:43 PM »
Leona should be okay in the console version. Still don't think the nerfs were justified. Definitely mid-tier though.

Dunno if I like the amount of nerfing to Leona either. Granted she still has the instant overhead > v-slasher and her HD goodness, but it would've been better if they improved on something else to give Leona players more inspiration  to play her on console. Some think potential-wise she can still be top tier when played by the really skilled, but have to keep in mind that most characters are receiving some pretty solid buffs.

I mean they could have made EX X-Caliber combo from strike arch since you're expending a meter...that would be awesome. Hoping that there is a tweak not mentioned on the blog for her that makes her more fun. Oh well, let's wait and see...

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #161 on: October 27, 2011, 09:45:40 PM »
Wider range V-slasher is going to pretty much shut up a lot of the other character changes though XD But you saw the kinda things I woulda linked to see her get on console... if she ends up too weak though, I hope SNKP will be willing to change some things with a patch. She'll still be on one of my teams either way!

Another thing I would have liked to have seen, that would have been a minor thing to change, would have been letting qcb+C land from Strike Arch, even at midscreen. Would have allowed a new way to land Grand Saber -> Slash Saber follow-ups Midscreen, and wouldn't really be too OP, since it'd require some generous cancels. Might have possibly made her HD combos too good?

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #162 on: October 27, 2011, 10:34:33 PM »
i wasnt waiting for buffs but what i mean is : there r not so much openings when u come close to the opponent so why dont change the air qcb C comboable or at least the EX version ? ok f+B is nice and good and whatever but compared to the rest of the cast more combo options  would have been welcome especially if u think as an opponent : ok im guarding she is doing her crouch  b what could she do after ? instant overhead , DM ? s.B f+B and then ? nothing ... ok i just have to guess the crouch or stand option (i dont mean with this that the air qcb C would change everything especially in the example i putted on cause if the opponent is guarding then u r fucked but it would have been just a lil thing more and definitely not a huge change to her gameplay thinking she is a charge character too and doing a fuckincirclemotion sometimes wouldnt have been so bad ).ok if u can do s.B f+B on a blockin character and then u r safe and u can keep pressure it wouldnt be so bad but what make me think r the nerfs on moonslasher and sabre.if they leaved them like in the arcade it would have been better and maybe adjusting the hitbox of b,f a or c since it seems kinda bad of a move compared to the old versions
we ll see we ll see
for sure she is just too charming to drop her for few nerfs
:)

Sharnt

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #163 on: October 27, 2011, 10:54:45 PM »
Leona's offensive options aren't that great because she is that good at zoning, keeping the opponent away and on the ground.

But she can also build an extremely powerful pressing because of her options on low/high mixup.
High :
f.B
Throw
nj.D/A

Low :
d.B
s.B

And it's because of her s.B she can really open the guard because it's hitting low.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 10:57:21 PM by Sharnt »
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omegaryuji

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Re: Leona Heidern
« Reply #164 on: October 27, 2011, 11:06:48 PM »
Throw's unblockable ;)

But otherwise, yeah, her high/low is dangerous once she has meter. Maybe not quite as strong as it was in the past with unblockables via qcb+K, and the lack of air throw OS hurts her air game as well, but still, for a character who's about poke harassment, her mixups are pretty good (and this is where I really like having h.A cancelable, since a psychic high block against nj.D is many times worse for Leona).

what make me think r the nerfs on moonslasher and sabre.if they leaved them like in the arcade it would have been better
Are the changes to those moves really that bad?  Moon slasher is always a deathwish on block, and the increased recovery time for ground saber can't be all THAT bad considering the HD loop still works (unless maybe SNK made the recovery even worse sometime after EVO).

Quote
maybe adjusting the hitbox of b,f a or c since it seems kinda bad of a move compared to the old versions
The old (b)~f+C was basically useless outside of MAYBE trying it as a crossup on your opponent's wakeup, which would probably never fool someone more than once, and if you had enough time for that, you probably would've been better off doing an unblockable with qcb+B instead.
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