Author Topic: King (Arcade Version)  (Read 24492 times)

bigvador

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Re: King
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2011, 08:26:58 AM »
Two things you should know about her that are important:

1.She can switch between aggro and zoning, but is mainly a zoning character.

2.Do not mash against King.

Starting with the first point, she is a zoning character and is very, very good at keeping you out as well as rushing you down. The first thing you need to do is always keep in mid to close range. As much as King is an unequipped character, her fireball is a very versatile move and can hurt a lot.

This is pretty basic, but you should try to hop a bit more. Aside from her EX Trapshoot, she's very vulnerable to air unless she's in the air. This is why being close to her is good. If she jumps, you can standing A her before she gets a fireball off. You want to constantly pressure her into making mistakes. You can punish practically anything she does at close range, none of her moves are safe, but at a distance and good spacing, she can cause a lot of problems. This solves your problem with d.B because if you apply hop pressure, you'll avoid her d.B all together.

My second point is not to mash against her. You have to take it slow because she does have reversals, namely her EX trapshoot. It is fast and will catch you if you hop at her, spam low kicks on her wake up or generally whiff a slow move near her. You want to take it slow. Make her make mistakes, tick throw, and what not. Remember that she can get a combo off from her st. D or d.B, but she has to combo her df+D in order to combo so always remember to block low. In arcade version, she can't cancel df+D by itself alone and blocking her whole string up close is good. Tornado kick is not safe on block if she is close up so punish it. A fast poke will get her if she does venom strike.

also want to add to that her tornado kick is a really good anti air so be care full when you jump or even hop

FataCon

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Re: King
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2011, 07:16:58 PM »
Remember that she can get a combo off from her st. D or d.B, but she has to combo her df+D in order to combo so always remember to block low.

I would be careful with this. King can break her d.B>d.A chain into a hop j.D, which has a great hitbox for cross-ups.

king would mostly stay on the outside and build meter with her venom strike and also like athena she can and will (maybe) run after you while the strike is still coming at

I think it's a big misconception that she builds a lot of meter spamming venom strikes. They either have to hit or be blocked by the opponent to gain meter.

Using venom strikes to bait movement is also a big part of her neutral game. If she does a full screen B ver. venom strike, it's slow enough where the opponent will usually feel compelled to make a decision. Outside of blocking or negating it, most opponents will roll through or jump over it, which lead into punishes for King.

also want to add to that her tornado kick is a really good anti air so be care full when you jump or even hop

Tornado Kick is actually a really poor anti-air, tbh. Even if you used the aforementioned Venom Strike jump trap, a close jump doesn't always lose to B ver. Tornado Kick, nor does a far jump always lose to a D ver. Tornado Kick. Sometimes it trades or outright loses. Often times it hits cleanly because an opponent was caught off guard or didn't time their jump normal properly to stuff out the Tornado Kick. Even EX Tornado Kick, which is invincible to projectiles, will get stuffed by a well-timed jump normal.

Her only reliable anti-airs are EX Trap Shot and c.C. Even then, c.C isn't as abusable as other characters' c.C. It doesn't have a huge vertical hitbox, it simply lowers King's hurtbox. It's a very slow normal so it's more anticipatory rather than reaction based.

Other than that, the info that Reiki and bigvador posted about getting in her face is pretty much the gist of what you should be doing against King. Including EX Trap Shot, King has to spend meter (using GC options) to get out of high pressure situations. Once she's in the corner, even EX Trap Shot becomes a risky reversal, as it doesn't push back the opponent on block. Use that to your advantage and bait it out for a big punish.

There's one other anti-King trick that I have yet to test, since there are hardly any King players, atm. However, as a long-standing King player, I'm not telling ;)

Kane317

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Re: King
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2011, 10:19:30 PM »
Side note, I heard that Reynald, John and Ricardo has picked up King at AA as at least secondary characters.  Seems like they have been inspired by the way Bala used King in Evo/ReveLAtions.  Let's hope we can get their input on King too.

bigvador

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Re: King
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2011, 04:14:10 AM »
also want to add to that her tornado kick is a really good anti air so be care full when you jump or even hop

Tornado Kick is actually a really poor anti-air, tbh. Even if you used the aforementioned Venom Strike jump trap, a close jump doesn't always lose to B ver. Tornado Kick, nor does a far jump always lose to a D ver. Tornado Kick. Sometimes it trades or outright loses. Often times it hits cleanly because an opponent was caught off guard or didn't time their jump normal properly to stuff out the Tornado Kick. Even EX Tornado Kick, which is invincible to projectiles, will get stuffed by a well-timed jump normal.

There's one other anti-King trick that I have yet to test, since there are hardly any King players, atm. However, as a long-standing King player, I'm not telling ;)

Im not to sure on that i do have to agree that she can get hit out of her tornado kick it still is use as a anti air but only with the second hit. i have tested this (not as well as i wanted to) and it do work most of the time without gettin stuffed nor trading hits. with the close jump over the strike u should use D ver depending on the distance but would want to use it as a poke (at least thats what i do) so that way you can create a lil distance. im not a huge king player but i think i know a little somethin somethin with her.

as for you extra anti air in all i count she has about 5 anti airs and a extra 3 with her specials so if im missin 1 tell me if im worng  :)

FataCon

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Re: King
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2011, 04:26:12 AM »
as for you extra anti air in all i count she has about 5 anti airs and a extra 3 with her specials so if im missin 1 tell me if im worng  :)

I'm not quite sure how she has that many anti-airs, at least not reliable ones anyway. Not counting her Tornado Kick (because I still don't buy that one), EX Trap Shot, and c.C, her other anti-airs are situational at best. Close s.C will counter a high jump along the wall when King is cornered and far s.D works on floaty jumps or preemptively vs hops. Remember, I didn't say that they couldn't be used as anti-airs, I just don't feel they are very reliable/useful.

Which moves/normals do you think could be used as anti-airs?

bigvador

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Re: King
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2011, 04:29:32 AM »
st A works just mash the hell outta it somebody did that to me and it always stop me (except 4 when i use rolf)

FataCon

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Re: King
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2011, 04:37:46 AM »
s.A is a standard counter to hops that's universal to pretty much any character. Any that are King specific that I haven't mentioned?

bigvador

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Re: King
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2011, 04:44:35 AM »
it still count but jump B i think it was and maybe jump A and C but i find that it kinda works if only u jump back so they can hit the hitbox but thats all i can think of and tornado kick im tellin just give it a few more test runs as a poke and then you may be able to count it

FataCon

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Re: King
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2011, 05:44:11 AM »
I don't generally include air-to-airs as part of anti-airs, but in that case j.B and j.CD work best.

I still strongly advise against Tornado Kick as an anti-air. I can tell you from about a year's worth of experience with XIII King that it is fairly unreliable. Believe me when I say I wish she had more solid meterless anti-air options, but she currently does not. I didn't get to test too extensively with her console counterpart, but if I remember correctly, she's still lacking in that department.

Regardless, gameplay discussion is always good. I'm seeing a lot of newcomers looking forward to picking non-standard (read: high-tier) characters, and King has always been a pretty popular character.

bigvador

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Re: King
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2011, 07:06:21 AM »
well she is basic and her specials are pretty solid

davidkong07

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Re: King
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2011, 11:27:15 AM »
Hey fellow king players! just thought i'd roll in here with some (hopefully) new technology!!


so check it, you know how you have to be near the corner to do her basic HD combo loop, right? well, i found a way to get into the loop from much further away (up to around 70% of the entire stage away from the corner when you start the combo)

basically, what i found is that AT POINT BLANK RANGE, stand B, slide, into B tornado kick will let you follow up with EX trap shot every time. at first, this doesn't seem very useful, since it costs meter for little damage, and plus you have to be literally right next to your opponent otherwise EX trap shot will whiff.

BUT, if you land any close standing C or D, you can activate HD into stand B, which will hit at point blank range. you can then follow up with, slide, B tornado kick, EX trap shot, HD cancel B tornado kick, and hopefully at this point you'll be in the corner, so you can follow with regular trap shot, loop, finish the combo.


so yeah, now king can land her HD combo, for 1 extra meter, from like a long ass distance from the corner. very situational, but useful imo.

there is something weird about this though, and i hope someone can answer my question. king players will know that in the corner, at the end of her basic HD combo, you can do B tornado kick, D tornado kick, then EX surprise rose. for some reason however, if you cancel from EX trap shot, then do B tornado kick, D tornado kick, EX surprise rose will whiff every time. any idea why this happens? thanks all!
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Re: King
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2011, 12:09:56 AM »
http://www.twitch.tv/exdragonproject/b/298664121

01:52:50 - King lands her command slide, then a delayed far C still connects for a combo...like, really delayed

SAB-CA

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Re: King
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2011, 01:43:41 AM »
It was a pretty deep slide (opponent landed in it), but yeah, that was definitely a combo! May be useful as a trick on wakeup / anti air to potentially lands HD? And I'm guessing her far ;c isn't cancellable... maybe Far ;a into a Tornado kick (EX) or something, for a nice combo option?

Kane317

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Re: King
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2011, 05:27:22 AM »
First page updated with console changes.

---

Console changes:
- (shown in video) Jump D stays out longer
- (shown in video) close C has faster startup
- (shown in video) D Venom Strike (air) has a smaller recoil
- far D has less lag
- (shown in video) Slide can be cancelled without being cancelled into

Yamamoto Ė We focused on her normals mainly. Although the number of changes are few, it will change gameplay significantly as normals are used most often. Her slide is a great low move and since her close HP {s.C} isnít affected by scaling easily, please us it often as a combo starter.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 05:37:47 AM by Kane317 »

Siren

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Re: King
« Reply #74 on: November 15, 2011, 05:12:17 PM »
I'm loving how console king can combo from her 3d on it's own. It seems minor, but it means a big deal to me and helps the character a lot in my opinion.
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