Author Topic: NorCal KOF!  (Read 329455 times)

metaphysics

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #300 on: July 12, 2011, 01:11:35 AM »
I think everybody has the right to to play the game however they want, skewing the time to cater towards a certain style, whether for entertainment  or not,  is wrong for a tournament setting in my in my opinion.

 Also when the majority of the people learn high damage combo's there won't be as many timeouts either, there were a lot of dropped combo's, and relatively weak combo's. as the general skill level rises you will see less and less timeouts.
" you fight well in the old style"

Kane317

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #301 on: July 12, 2011, 01:11:53 AM »
None of our AI our AA tournaments have change the clock settings if that makes a difference; it's always set at 60.   A 99 second Raiden is a REAL scary thing.

Also, 6-7 hours for a 16man double elimination tourney with 1 setup is the same amount of time it's taken us for all the tourney's we've run for XIII.

I think everybody has the right to to play the game however they want, skewing the time to cater towards a certain style, whether for entertainment  or not,  is wrong for a tournament setting in my in my opinion.

 Also when the majority of the people learn high damage combo's there won't be as many timeouts either, there were a lot of dropped combo's, and relatively weak combo's. as the general skill level rises you will see less and less timeouts.

Lol, at the rate we play at most rounds end in about 30 seconds give or take (for rounds 2-5 at least).

Atlas, your tourney, so your call.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 01:13:42 AM by Kane317 »

Reiki.Kito

  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #302 on: July 12, 2011, 01:24:26 AM »
Will consider it, but please understand that it's not that I want to deny a mechanic of the game from being used. I'd rather that it not dictate whether someone is the rightful winner where money and standing are involved.

I will definitely consider it and bring it to the arcade's attention.

Demoninja

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #303 on: July 12, 2011, 01:29:36 AM »
KoF 94, 95, 2002UM, are faster than KoF XIII and have completely different systems. That just seems to be an issue with deviating from tradition rather than actual gameplay mechanics being lost. If matches are finished in less than 60 seconds in high level play as you stated, then there should not be a problem whether the limit is higher than 60 seconds if a majority of matches in higher level play finish quickly anyway. You're also right, by the way, that recent tournaments still have the game on default.

Marvel 2/3 have vastly different systems but still has the same timer. And since I'm saying matches are usually finished within 60 seconds anyway then have it stay at 60 should not be a problem either. Both these arguments go both way so I'm going to toss them. Tradition is very important for me. I'm try to seriously learn the game and travel to play when I have the funds.

Quote
I agree that it's a valid argument. Not many people set the timer to 99 because the games usually didn't last that long to begin with. It's what the game's default is. If I remember correctly, MvC3 is not defaulted to 99 seconds and neither is Tekken, CvS2, SFIV, etc. They're usually north of 60, like 75.

I just looked through my copy of MvC3 and there doesn't appear to be an option to change the timer. CvS2 and SFIV default is 99 seconds. Also Tekken is defaulted at 60 seconds.

Quote
However, for tournament play, nobody benefits from the timer being 60 seconds except maybe people who prefer rushdown or juggling characters. Everybody benefits from the timer as there's more time to play in general. It's also not that timeouts are impossible, but they're just not as likely or frequent.

You just said that nobody benefits and then said some people do in the same sentence. Yeah time outs aren't impossible in a 99 second situation but they're already rare in a 60 second one.

Quote
So as far as I can tell, it stands that:

Pros:
Allows for longer matches to be done.
Follows every other game's standard

Cons:
Breaks tradition
Makes timeouts unlikely

I don't see how either of those are pro. If a longer match is going down and goes past the standard amount of allotted time that means the players haven't been managing the time they know they had to work with. Other game's standards are for other games. KOF standards are for KOF.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 01:36:46 AM by Demoninja »

Reiki.Kito

  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #304 on: July 12, 2011, 01:44:47 AM »
If we're going to get into the grammar I used, using an exception and adding maybe is giving off the possibility. Whether it's 60 or not, you've already stated that a majority of high level play never gets that far to begin with so it's a non-issue whether the timer is 60 or not.

HaxMurderer

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • aka NegroNinja aka Biki aka HotPockets
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #305 on: July 12, 2011, 02:15:50 AM »
Just more time keep dropkicks on standby :D

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #306 on: July 12, 2011, 04:10:14 AM »
one point that i'd like to bring up regarding time outs is that the amount of life the winner gets back is dependent on how much time is left on the clock at the end of the round. correct me if i'm wrong, but if someone wins by time out, they receive no life back the next round, right?

if this is the case then winning by time out punishes the winner for turtling to win by not letting him regain any life. i think this is a very important aspect that affects the flow of the game. how life regaining is affected by 99 secs vs. 60 secs, i have no clue, so i guess it should be tested before i can draw some kind of conclusion. but i feel that this should be kept in mind, and actually changes the way the game is played
In it to win it!

Demoninja

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #307 on: July 12, 2011, 11:52:12 AM »
Oh wow I didn't know that at all David. That's pretty interesting actually.

@James: Just to be clear, if it seems like I'm personally attacking you I'm not. I just always get heated when it comes to arguing about something.

nilcam

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 1238
  • PSN: nilcam
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #308 on: July 12, 2011, 10:23:06 PM »
one point that i'd like to bring up regarding time outs is that the amount of life the winner gets back is dependent on how much time is left on the clock at the end of the round. correct me if i'm wrong, but if someone wins by time out, they receive no life back the next round, right?

if this is the case then winning by time out punishes the winner for turtling to win by not letting him regain any life. i think this is a very important aspect that affects the flow of the game. how life regaining is affected by 99 secs vs. 60 secs, i have no clue, so i guess it should be tested before i can draw some kind of conclusion. but i feel that this should be kept in mind, and actually changes the way the game is played

This is my concern, I once played XII with a friend and he had it set to 99 second rounds. I win first round with about half of my health left and about 40 seconds on the clock. I started the next round at about 90% of my health. The extra 39 seconds really changes the game.

Reiki.Kito

  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #309 on: July 12, 2011, 10:59:21 PM »
That is quite serious...I had no idea that was the case. If what you're saying is right, that gives a large handicap for players who finish games quickly despite any damage they receive. Thank you very much for letting me know that this is the case.

I will test this all out immediately and let the arcade owners know. Although I do not feel timeouts represent a valid decider for tournament play, especially when money is involved, I would not want to give an unfair advantage.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 11:01:21 PM by Reiki.Kito »

Kane317

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #310 on: July 12, 2011, 11:22:26 PM »
That is quite serious...I had no idea that was the case. If what you're saying is right, that gives a large handicap for players who finish games quickly despite any damage they receive. Thank you very much for letting me know that this is the case.

I will test this all out immediately and let the arcade owners know. Although I do not feel timeouts represent a valid decider for tournament play, especially when money is involved, I would not want to give an unfair advantage.

As time progresses, the time out situation will become less and less frequent.  If money is involved, they should definitely work harder to secure the win than camp it out, just my two cents.

Demoninja

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #311 on: July 13, 2011, 12:36:31 AM »
So from me rewatching videos, the life gain can be generalized as 1% every 2 seconds left on the clock however there's some unique cases when the clock is almost zero. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYqSKREd7m8 This was one of the ones I watched. In the first round Robert vs Kyo, Pepe won with around 3-4 seconds left on the clock yet he got 10% back. However right after that with the Raiden vs Kyo part Mr. KOF won with about 50 seconds left and he got back about 25% which fits in with my theory. I also watched random matches from the tournament as well and it seemed to fit.

What I used to come to this conclusion was looking at how much time was left and using the lines on the hp bar as my measuring stick.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 12:39:36 AM by Demoninja »

Kane317

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #312 on: July 13, 2011, 01:43:07 AM »
Just more time keep dropkicks on standby :D

Btw HaxMurderer, you've got a solid Joe there.  I haven't gotten around reviewing the entire stream (although I did watch 70% live) so I'm sure there are other players worth mentioning as well.  How many of you folks are going to Evo?

---
So from me rewatching videos, the life gain can be generalized as 1% every 2 seconds left on the clock however there's some unique cases when the clock is almost zero. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYqSKREd7m8 This was one of the ones I watched. In the first round Robert vs Kyo, Pepe won with around 3-4 seconds left on the clock yet he got 10% back. However right after that with the Raiden vs Kyo part Mr. KOF won with about 50 seconds left and he got back about 25% which fits in with my theory. I also watched random matches from the tournament as well and it seemed to fit.

What I used to come to this conclusion was looking at how much time was left and using the lines on the hp bar as my measuring stick.

That sounds about right, I remember it gives you back less as the time runs out.  EDIT: Woa, those are some old ass videos.  It's so weird to watch us play back then.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 01:48:23 AM by Kane317 »

Reiki.Kito

  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #313 on: July 13, 2011, 07:30:40 AM »
Went ahead and tested it as well as cross-referenced some videos today. It is surprising how big a difference in life gain the timer causes. I did not know it was so intricately connected. I'm sorry for putting up such a fuss about it. This is proof enough to change it back to 60.

Ash

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Training Mode
    • View Profile
Re: NorCal KOF!
« Reply #314 on: July 13, 2011, 07:53:54 AM »
Will you guys have streaming again this weekend? Me and two others from socal are considering going if there is.