Author Topic: Mai Shiranui  (Read 10779 times)

desmond_kof

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Mai Shiranui
« on: July 18, 2016, 01:13:33 AM »
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Shiranui Gorin -  close ;bk / ;fd +  ;c
Fuusha Kuzushi - close ;bk / ;fd + ;d
Yume-Zakura - in the air, close ;bk / ;fd +  ;c

Command Normals
Ukihane - in the air   ;dn +   ;b
Giro Tan -  ;fd + ;b
Sankaku-Tobi -  (near or close to edge of screen) ;uf

Special Moves
Ryuuenbu - ;qcb + ;a / ;c  (*)
Kachosen - ;qcf + ;a / ;c (*)
Hisstatsu Shinobi Baichi - ;hcf + ;b / ;d *
Musasabi No Mai (front) - charge ;dn  ;uf + ;a / ;c (*)
Musasabi No Mai (back) - charge ;dn   ;ub or  ;up + ;a / ;c (*)
Musasabi No Mai (air) - ;qcb + ;a / ;c (in air) (*)

Super Special Moves
Chou Hisstatsu Shinobi-Baichi - ;qcb ;hcf + ;b / ;d (ground or air) *(!)
Kagerou no Mai - ;qcf ;qcf + ;a/ ;c (!)

Climax Desperation Move
Shiranui-Ryuu Oogi Kunoichi - ;qcf ;hcb + ;a + ;c (ground or air)
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2016, 06:22:53 PM »
Mai seems really strong in this game. I'm not ready to declare her top tier yet, but characters like Kyo, Iori, and Shun'ei will definitely have to respect her. She gains huge advantages from universal system changes and a few key character-specific buffs. This is how I read her strengths/weaknesses right now, feel free to offer your own take on her:

STRENGTHS:

  • Great all-purpose normals -- jump-ins, anti-air, air-to-air, pokes, Mai has everything she needs for offense and defense.
  • Great projectile (A Kacho Sen) that complements her very strong anti-air game. Jumping vs Mai is dangerous, but that fan makes even the best of us really tempted to jump...
  • Amazing s.CD -- massive corner wallstick potential or just easy, safe initiative from doing s.CD > A Kacho Sen.
  • Vastly improved wakeup/anti-air game via Kagero no Mai. An excellent and efficient anti-air versus jump-ins of all kinds, plus she can juggle after it if it trades (it rarely ever loses without being outright baited).
  • Superb Climax Art. Justifies its high resource cost by the huge number of neutral mistakes it can punish without requiring godlike reaction time. If Mai can stock 3 bars, she locks off so many neutral options to her opponent with just the threat of this move. Anchor Mai is legitimate now.
  • Great MAX mode utility. EX Kacho Sen in particular is a big case for popping raw MAX mode with Mai due to the number of mixups or at least approaches it protects for only 1 bar.

WEAKNESSES:

  • Still no meterless reversal -- much less of a limitation than it used to be, given her other strengths.
  • No ground overhead for MAX cancels. Not a big deal at all given her zoning power.
  • Can't combo to hcf+B/D on crouching opponents -- usually not a big deal since she has ample hit-confirm tools to check for crouching before she commits. And for 1 bar she can just do a MAX cancel combo to EX Ryuu Enbu and ignore the issue altogether.
  • Um...Iori's still in the game? That's all I got, really.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 06:28:37 PM by Ben Reed »

Amedø310

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2016, 07:13:36 PM »
Jump B and D are ok cross-ups buttons for her. Especially hop B.

Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 05:28:27 AM »
Tested some stuff with her tonight and she gets stupider (in a good way) with every minute I spend in the lab.

Ukihane (j.d+B) inflicts RIDICULOUS blockstun; I kept trying to get blocked by the dummy in a really unsafe way and with 1-guard jump + standing block in a Mai mirror I was unable to observe any situation where Mai was worse than neutral on block. NEUTRAL! If this move does not flat-out miss the opponent it's 100% safe AFAIK. Hop, full jump, late, early, doesn't even matter. Go nuts with this move if you think it won't miss or get DP'ed/supered. NerdJosh's instincts were right on target.

Mai recovers fast enough from uncancelled corner s.CD to link c.C afterwards. So you don't need to rely on linking from an A Kacho Sen, which is good, because if you're too close when you CD, the fan will miss. And of course raw CD is still plus as hell on block, so there's no consequence except guard cancels and invincible moves for going nuts with it.

Tigerknee Musasabi no Mai is also actually safe to plus on block if you're blocked (stand blocked) any later than the top of the opponent's head (riskier against tall characters, probably). TK right in their face is slightly plus on block, but of course that cries out "please hit me out of the startup". So an occasional shenanigan, no chance of Mai turning into 13 Yuri on the divekick front.

EX charge walldive has projectile invul on startup. Dunno yet if it lasts all the way to the wall since most of the fireball moves in this game are low to the ground. Where's King air Venom Strike when you need it? (RIP)

hcf+K 2nd hit is actually plus on block on crouch guard. Like, significantly so. But that doesn't matter cause all you need to do to avoid that situation is stand up while blocking the 1st hit and then she's -9,999 like you'd expect.

Shirakani

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 09:47:31 AM »
It should also be mentioned, even though a lot of ppl may disagree with me on this one: Mai's little Rush autocombo is actually WORTH USING for her. For a combo heavy character like Kyo or Iori, yeah ok you gain absolutely nothing from the little auto combos that you cannot instantly do better on.

But Mai has no little tappy combo like that by default. I can't help but think that the 2nd and 3rd hits of her autocombo should be a f+B command attack... IMMENSE crying shame that it isn't.

But because Mai has no little tappytap combos, if you're looking for 'quick and dirty damage' this is it. This will let you effectively have a 3 hit hitconfirm, after which you can opt to let it eat 1 stock for quick DM damage or to let it go.

A lot of ppl may scoff at the Rush combos but pay attention to what the devs have said. They INTEND for these to be USED. It will be unavoidable with the more combo heavy characters that the Rush combo may well have extremely negligable value (ie you'd never use it with Kyo, not when you can have a safer hitconfirm from simply dB dA qcf+B,B)... But with other non combo heavy or zoner types, don't be so quick to write it off.
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FreeRunner

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 09:50:59 AM »
Ok so I updated Mai's Wiki page with a few combos. I am far from done working on that, there is plenty more I need to post there. I will update the combo section more after I get home from work.
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Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2016, 01:00:43 PM »
It should also be mentioned, even though a lot of ppl may disagree with me on this one: Mai's little Rush autocombo is actually WORTH USING for her. For a combo heavy character like Kyo or Iori, yeah ok you gain absolutely nothing from the little auto combos that you cannot instantly do better on.

I disagree with this, actually. I tried Mai's Rush combo in the lab and unlike KoD's surprisingly good one (IDK why it's plus on block but KOD kinda needs whatever he can get), Mai's has nothing to really recommend for it. The 2nd and 3rd hits are both unsafe on block, and IMO the meterless route to low-height Musasabi no Mai isn't worth it. Remember that one of the goals of a hit-confirm is not just to give you time to recognize that you're hitting the opponent, but also to be safe on block. Mai's Rush Combo doesn't satisfy the 2nd condition because unless you have 0 meter for Musasabi no Mai, there's no way to be safe without stopping at close A (which you really should).

Also, no offense to the SNK devs (they really ARE doing a bang-up job with this game), but just because they INTEND for something to be used doesn't guarantee that it IS useful. Some Rush combos like KoD's are surprisingly useful, but I tested Mai's to look for hidden gold and I'm pretty sure there is none. You're much better off doing c.B > c.A > qcb+C, or even c.B > close B,D > hcf+D (target combo is unsafe, but you can stop at close B, which is safe and still cancellable).

If you want "quick and dirty" damage with Mai, all you really gotta do is stock 1 bar for MAX cancels. Mai's midscreen meterless combos are admittedly ho-hum, but she has much better corner options (s.CD wallstick, qcb+A resets). But a simple MAX-Cancel combo with Mai to qcb+AC > hcf+BD does tons of corner carry and very decent damage.

shinefist

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 01:04:37 PM »

Shiranui_ninja

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 02:50:53 PM »
This is a very stample 5 bars combo for Mai. All new Mai players should start from here.

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« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 02:53:30 PM by Shiranui_ninja »
PSN: Shiranui_ninja
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Shirakani

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 03:39:17 PM »

I disagree with this, actually. I tried Mai's Rush combo in the lab and unlike KoD's surprisingly good one (IDK why it's plus on block but KOD kinda needs whatever he can get), Mai's has nothing to really recommend for it. The 2nd and 3rd hits are both unsafe on block, and IMO the meterless route to low-height Musasabi no Mai isn't worth it. Remember that one of the goals of a hit-confirm is not just to give you time to recognize that you're hitting the opponent, but also to be safe on block. Mai's Rush Combo doesn't satisfy the 2nd condition because unless you have 0 meter for Musasabi no Mai, there's no way to be safe without stopping at close A (which you really should).

Also, no offense to the SNK devs (they really ARE doing a bang-up job with this game), but just because they INTEND for something to be used doesn't guarantee that it IS useful. Some Rush combos like KoD's are surprisingly useful, but I tested Mai's to look for hidden gold and I'm pretty sure there is none. You're much better off doing c.B > c.A > qcb+C, or even c.B > close B,D > hcf+D (target combo is unsafe, but you can stop at close B, which is safe and still cancellable).

If you want "quick and dirty" damage with Mai, all you really gotta do is stock 1 bar for MAX cancels. Mai's midscreen meterless combos are admittedly ho-hum, but she has much better corner options (s.CD wallstick, qcb+A resets). But a simple MAX-Cancel combo with Mai to qcb+AC > hcf+BD does tons of corner carry and very decent damage.

Fair enough, I did a bit more testing and yeah, the 3rd hit is unsafe. For a while I thought the amt of blockstun actually made it just safe enough but nope, I'm wrong here.

Shame tho, if it did just a bit more pushback it'd be safe enough to use, making it quite useful.

Also, I had NO IDEA she had that B,D target combo! Its not listed anywhere in the movelist that I can see. That target combo effectively gives her a command move that she lacks and is quite useful. Great find, it needs to be added to the movelist as it really can open up options. The immediate most obvious gain is it gives her a hitconfirm option into MAX mode, which is worth its weight in gold as doing B,D max, B,D is a LOT better than C, MAX, C.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 03:45:29 PM by Shirakani »
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Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2016, 05:11:58 PM »
I dunno about the damage scaling on the target combo yet; it may deal less damage than C > MAX > C despite doing more hits. But I'll have to check later cause I'm at work right now.

She had a target combo like it in 13, but they've both nerfed and buffed it (net buff) for this version. It can no longer start from far B, so your hit-confirms can't be as long, but it's now special-cancellable no matter what.

Shiranui_ninja

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2016, 06:43:20 PM »
Yes, exactly. B>D is better to start, but from what I have seen in combo videos it is better to continue after MAX acticvation with C or with her C+D splat, which can lead into many combo options.
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Shirakani

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2016, 01:45:24 AM »
I dunno about the damage scaling on the target combo yet; it may deal less damage than C > MAX > C despite doing more hits. But I'll have to check later cause I'm at work right now.

She had a target combo like it in 13, but they've both nerfed and buffed it (net buff) for this version. It can no longer start from far B, so your hit-confirms can't be as long, but it's now special-cancellable no matter what.

cB,B,D if possible or simply B,D is definitely the opener of choice for MAX. Its just far easier and gives you a bit of breathing room. The other thing to check is does her close B hit low? Its been ages since I touched XIII and I can't remember, can't check now coz I'm at work.

The fact that the target combo is cancellable into anything now makes it useful. I for one do not understand Capcom's mindset where they give everyone a TC in SFV but over 70% of them cannot be used to combo... I just do not understand the logic...
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Amedø310

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2016, 07:19:46 AM »
Mai hits like a truck for 2 bars and little execution (%53 to 60%):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYkYd1jxM5s&app=desktop
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 07:22:45 AM by Amedø310 »

FreeRunner

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Re: Mai Shiranui
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 08:58:13 AM »
So I did a combo that did 720 damage.

j.C, cl.C, BC, CD, cl.C, hcf+BD, qcb+AC, qcb+C, SC, qcb,hcf+B/D, CC, qcf,hcb+AC (720 DMG)

This takes 5 bars and is corner only.
You're too slow!!