Author Topic: Kyo Breakdown  (Read 4407 times)

Nereus

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Kyo Breakdown
« on: August 03, 2016, 01:43:21 AM »
What's going on everybody, my name's Michael and i go by Nereus in the community. I'm a bit new to the KOF community and i've mainly been playing the older KOF's on fightcade for the past couple months. My Fightcade ID is the same as my Dreamcancel name as well so if you see my in the lobby just hit me up there or here on Dreamcancel. Now that that's out the way, lets get into the breakdown! Ikuze!

Link to various Kyo Safejump setups by Amedo310: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=4164.msg74111#new



Close Normals

Cl.A

- 4 frame startup (-2 on block, 0 on hit)
- Can link into Cr.B, itself (Cl.A), Cr.A and Cl.B
-Hits on both crouching and standing opponents
-Special-cancellable
-Can be used as an anti-air upclose
-Decent upclose poke but not one of his main go-to pokes for pressure
-Can link into Aragami (qcf.LP)

Cl.B
-5 frame startup (-2 on block, 0 on hit)
-Looks like it hits low, but the move hits mid meaning you can stand-block it
-Special-cancellable
-Can be chained into df.D for a full combo (ex: Cl.B > df.D (1) > qcf+HK > stuff)
-Can also be linked into qcf+LK on both crouching and standing opponents
-Can link into Aragami (qcf.LP)

Cl.C
- 4 frame startup (-4 on block and -2 on hit)
-One of his main go-to punish tools
-Can be chained into df.D for a full combo (EX: Cl.C (1) > df.D (1) > qcf+HK > stuff)
-Can also be chained into f+B for a full combo
               -Be wary of chaining into this as f+B can whiff on opponents due to distance

-Possible to be used as an anti-air if close enough to opponent
-Does two hits on hit and one on block
               -Cannot be special-cancelled on the second hit
               -Must special-cancel on the first hit due to this ^
               -Super-cancellable, even on the second hit

Cl.D
-9 frame startup ( -3 on block and -1 on hit)
-Good to link into after a BC Cancel (MAX Mode) for max damage
               -Example of this would be St.C (1) > df.D (2) > BC > Cl.D > stuff
                     -It's best to wait a bit after the Cancel in order to make sure the Cl.D comes out. The game is generous in terms of the hitstun

-Outside of optimizing damage, this normal won't be used very often

Far Normals

Far.A
-4 frame startup (-3 on block and -1 on hit)
-Decent range and startup but does not hit crouching
-Can be used as an AA against jumpins that are a bit distant

Far.B
-6 frame startup (-2 on block and 0 on hit)
-Great ranged poke with decent startup
              -A bit better than Far.A due to: Range, the move hitting mid, and more advantage/hitstun on hit
                    -Can be combo'd off of with MAX Cancel (Ex: Far.B > BC > St.C (1) > stuff)
                    -Makes this poke a bit more threatening in neutral ^
-One of his go-to footsie tools

Far.C
-8 frame startup (-2 on block and 0 on hit)
-Can be combo'd off of with MAX Cancel  (Ex: Far.C > BC > St.C (1) > stuff)
            -Compared to Far.B, you won't be using this normal too often

Far.D
-8 frame startup (-3 on block and -1 on hit)
-Great range and poke in neutral
            -Can hop over low attacks and certain projectiles such as Iori's projectile
            -Better button than Far.C due to the same startup with better range and priority
            -Can be combo'd off of with MAX Cancel (Ex: Far.D > BC > St.C (1) > stuff)

Crouching Attacks

Cr.A
-4 frame startup (-2 on block and 0 on hit)
-Good poke to confirm off of Cr.B
-Can be chained into df.D for a full confirm (Ex: Cr.A > df.D (1) > qcf+HK > stuff)
-Special-cancellable
-Can link into Aragami (qcf.LP)

Cr.B
-4 frame startup (+2 on block and +4 on hit)
-Great pressure tool and low
          -Can frame trap by doing Cr.B > Cr.B as a blockstring

-Great Hit Advantage
          -Allows you to confirm into Cl.C if done close enough (Ex: Cr.B > Cl.C > df.D (1) > qcf+HK > stuff)

-One of his main go-to pressure tools for offense

Cr.C
-7 frame startup (-4 on block and -2 on hit)
-Great for anti-airing jumpinss
         -If the elbow only hits, the move does 30 damage instead of 40
-Special-cancellable

Cr.D
-9 frame startup (-8 on block and knockdown on hit)
-Isn't a hard knockdown on hit (opponent can recovery roll)
          -In the demo build, it's a hard knockdown but apparently it's a bug

-Can be cancelled on block, hit, and whiff to make the move more safe (Ex: Cr.D > qcf.LK > LK followup)
        -Can also be whiff cancelled into a DP to AA opponents trying to jump in

Command Normals

j.2C
-Good Jump normal to use as it can out-prioritize anti-air attempts with normals
      - Good hitstun
      -Similar to Iori, Kyo can cancel the animation of his backdash with j.2C. This allows him to cover back distance much faster than if he just continually backdashed
-Hard knockdown on airborne opponents

-Hits overhead

f+B
-Overhead command normal
-Must be MAX cancelled to confirm if done alone (Ex: f+B > St.C (1) > stuff)
-Can be chained off of certain normals such as St.C to maximize damage

df.D
-Low Command Normal
-Typically used to get good conversions off of low confirms and MAX Mode confirms
-Special-cancellable only on the first hit (on block and hit)
-Super-cancellable on the first and second hit

Special Moves

Aragami (qcf+LP)
-11 frame startup (-6 on block and -4 on hit)
-Armor properties (can absorb an attack)
     -Not recommended as a reversal, armor doesn't kick in immediately and slow startup.


-Ku no Kizu (qcf.LP/HP) from Aragami
       -8 frame startup (-14 on block and launches on hit)
       -Ya no Sabi followup from this is a true blockstring
                    -You want to try and hit-confirm this followup due to the move being heavily unsafe on block

       -Super-cancellable
       -Can be confirmed into his qcb,hcf+LP/HP super (Ex: St.C (1) > qcf.LP > qcf.LP > qcb,hcf+LP/HP)
       -Can also be confirmed into his qcf,qcf+LP/HP
                   -Due to the nature of this move and the pushback, it isn't recommended unless you're either in the corner or you use the level two version of this super

      -Has two followups: Ya no Sabi (LP/HP), Nana Se (LK/HK)
                  -LP/HP knocks the opponent down (Hard knockdown) (10 frame startup, -11 on block)
                  -LK/HK blows them back across the screen (12 frame startup, -9 on block)

-Ya no Sabi (hcb.LP/HP) from Aragami
      -24 frame startup (-12 on block and hard knockdown on hit)
      -Also an overhead
      -Great to use when the opponent is airborne
                 -In a combo, you're going to mainly use this route in the corner as you'll typically be out of range midscreen
                 -LP/HP followup (Migiri Ugachi) for additional damage (17 frame startup, -24 on block)
                        -Hits overhead, hard knockdowns

-Mu no Tsuchi (hcb+B) from Aragami
-Hits low, has a lot of startup and is used mostly to play the high/low game, sweeps opponent if hit.

--Hikigane (hcb+B) from Mu no Tsuchi
          -His KOF2k/2k1/2k2 hcb+D 'Bullet Upper', has further step in and will combo if the Mu no Tsuchi hits.
          -Super-cancellable
--Tsurube Otoshi (LP/HP) from Mu no Tsuchi
         - 'Canned' hyperhop forward into his air dwn+C command attack
         -Hits overhead

Dokugami (qcf+HP)
-18 frame startup (-8 on block and -6 on hit)
-Armor properties (can absorb an attack)
       -Possible to stuff guard cancel blowbacks using this move among other normals (Ex: St.C > qcf.LP will beat out guard cancel Blowback)
       -Due to startup, it isn't possible to use as a reversal as you'll be stuffed out and the armor doesn't kick in    immediately

Important note about MAX Mode Version:: The MAX Mode Version of Dokugami(qcf.LP+HP) also has armor properties and the armor kicks in immediately unlike the normal versions
          
           Properties:-Full armor from start to until the hitbox comes out
                           -1 full body step extra range, will cleanly combo from close C, f+B


-Tsumiyomi (hcb.HP) from Dokugami
     -9 frame startup (-13 on block and -11 on hit)
     -True blockstring
                -Has a followup into an ender (f+C > dp+HP)
                -Highly unsafe on block (-20 for both f+C and dp+HP)
                        -Mainly use this as a hit-confirm due to the risk
                        -DP Followup will whiff on block if done on crouching opponents

--Batsuyomi (f+P) from Tsumiyomi
Followup from Tsumiyomi, knocks opponent airborne. Horrendously unsafe.

---Oniyaki (dp+P) from Batsuyomi
Followup from Batsuyomi, finishes the 4 hit chain with his dp+A/C, knocks away

qcf.LK/HK
-LK version: 14 frame startup (-21 on block and -19 on hit)
                 -Has a followup (LK/HK) (-4 on block)
                        -Launches on hit
                        -Whiffs on crouching opponents on block
                        -Can be followed up with qcb.LK after the launch

-HK version: 20 frame startup (-21 on block and launches on hit
                -HK version will be the main one to confirm off of bnb's (Ex: Cr.B > Cr.A > df.D (1) > qcf.HK > stuff)
                -Has a followup (LK/HK)
                       -Can be done on meaty after a hard knockdown for solid advantage on block
                           -Be wary of DP's when attempting to meaty with this move.


hcb.LK/HK
-LK version: 15 frame startup (-11 on block and a hard knockdown on hit)
                -Main way of converting into Kyo's qcb, hcf+LP/HP super
                    -Buffers the super while doing the move at the same time, making the cancel easier by just inputting hcf.LP/HP and the move will come out

-HK version: Same startup, block advantage and knockdown as LP version
                -Travels farther than the LP version
                    -Good for converting off of a raw blowback along with the LP version (Ex: BC > hcb.HK > stuff) (BC > hcb.LK > qcf.HK  > stuff)
                    -Has Lower Body Invincibility, meaning it can go through certain lows and Iori's projectile.
                       -Some lows that hit at a higher angle may still tag Kyo
                 -
Important note about MAX Mode Version: The MAX Mode version of this move turns into a command grab

rdp+LK/HK
-LK version: 20 frame startup (-8 on block and hard knockdown on hit)
                -Can be used to hop over fireballs
                -Also used as a combo ender off of qcf.HK for a hard knockdown
                -May tend to catch people jumping as well

-HK version: 35 frame startup (-6 on block and hard knockdown on hit)
                -The arc of the jump is a bit higher and the distance is longer as well.

Important note about MAX Mode Version: The MAX Mode version is a groundbounce that allows a followup
                 -On crouching opponents, this move will not connect as a combo extender (Ex: St.C (1) > rdp.LK+HK will not connect as a combo)

dp+LP/HP
-LP version: 4 frame startup (-27 on block and launches on hit)
                 -No invulnerability/invincibility
                 -Good for Anti-airing opponents
                 -Great for converting into Kyo's qcb,hcf+LP/HP super

-HP version: 7 frame startup (-35 on block and launches on hit)
                 -Go-to reversal
                 -Has full-body invincibility
                 -Deals more damage than the LP version when all hits connect
                 -Also good for anti-airing opponents

Super Special Moves

qcb,hcf+LP/HP
-21 frame startup (-21 on block and hard knockdown on hit)
               -His main super to convert on midscreen routes
               -Level 2 version has faster startup (10 frames)
                            -Great for anti-airing opponents due to the freeze frame and good startup
                            -Charging the super will grant additional damage

qcf,qcf+LP/HP

-11 frame startup (-19 on block and hard knockdown on hit)
              -Good for easy conversions off of rekkas
              -Level 2 Version allows you to get a climax cancel conversion in the corner
              -Charging the super will grant additional damage

Climax Super Special Move

qcb,qcb+AC
-19 frame startup (-19 on block and hard knockdown on hit)
              -Has full body invincibility
              -Requires three bars unless in MAX Mode (Only costs two)
              -Can be converted off of certain specials such as Kyo's qcf.HP > hcb.HP followup
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 12:40:45 AM by Nereus »

Coliflowerz

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2016, 08:09:32 AM »
Thanks for the work! Few things to add:

qcf AC's armor starts up immediately.

hcb K has lower body invincibility, meaning it'll pass through things like Iori's fireball and low sweeps, though higher angled sweeps like Iori will still hit it.

Might be good to mention that charging the supers increases its damage too.
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Nereus

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2016, 11:29:43 AM »
Thanks for the work! Few things to add:

qcf AC's armor starts up immediately.

hcb K has lower body invincibility, meaning it'll pass through things like Iori's fireball and low sweeps, though higher angled sweeps like Iori will still hit it.

Might be good to mention that charging the supers increases its damage too.

You talking about the EX one correct?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 11:33:12 AM by Nereus »

Coliflowerz

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 01:12:27 PM »
You talking about the EX one correct?

EX qcf P, yeah. The regular version of hcb K has low invuln still though. I think the EX hcb K has full invincibility but im not sure.
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Shirakani

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 02:23:34 PM »
Added the movenames for you here otherwise, sorry, its REALLY confusing to read... Kyo players generally will know his movenames. Also added the last 2 hits of the Dokugami chain which you didn't have, tho I don't have an analysis of these beyond 'horrendously unsafe, do not do unless hit confirmed' :P

You also didn't have the new followups for the Aragami, added those... Go ahead and analyse em.

Couple other things to add to your list:
-2nd hit of close C is not special cancellable but it is SUPER cancellable
-2nd hit of df+D is also SUPER cancellable
-Close standing B will link into Aragami (qcf+A), this is a HUGE deal as besides XIII EX Kyo, Kyo has never had this in the past. It was underused in XIII but it may be used more here, time will tell... especially if the Ya Sabi is safe on block.
-Crouching/close A will also link into Aragami
-EX Kototsuki (hcb+BD) now has a whiff, unlike XIII where it didn't

<movelist edit removed, no longer needed, see first post>
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 01:38:49 AM by Shirakani »
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Nereus

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 11:00:18 PM »
Added the movenames for you here otherwise, sorry, its REALLY confusing to read... Kyo players generally will know his movenames. Also added the last 2 hits of the Dokugami chain which you didn't have, tho I don't have an analysis of these beyond 'horrendously unsafe, do not do unless hit confirmed' :P

You also didn't have the new followups for the Aragami, added those... Go ahead and analyse em.

Couple other things to add to your list:
-2nd hit of close C is not special cancellable but it is SUPER cancellable
-2nd hit of df+D is also SUPER cancellable
-Close standing B will link into Aragami (qcf+A), this is a HUGE deal as besides XIII EX Kyo, Kyo has never had this in the past. It was underused in XIII but it may be used more here, time will tell... especially if the Ya Sabi is safe on block.
-Crouching/close A will also link into Aragami
-EX Kototsuki (hcb+BD) now has a whiff, unlike XIII where it didn't

Aragami (qcf+LP)
11 frame startup (-6 on block and -4 on hit)

-Ku no Kizu (qcf.LP/HP) from Aragami
       -8 frame startup (-14 on block and launches on hit)
       -Ya no Sabi followup from this is a true blockstring
                    -You want to try and hit-confirm this followup due to the move being heavily unsafe on block

       -Super-cancellable
       -Can be confirmed into his qcb,hcf+LP/HP super (Ex: St.C (1) > qcf.LP > qcf.LP > qcb,hcf+LP/HP)
       -Can also be confirmed into his qcf,qcf+LP/HP
                   -Due to the nature of this move and the pushback, it isn't recommended unless you're either in the corner or you use the level two version of this super

      -Has two followups: Ya no Sabi (LP/HP), Nana Se (LK/HK)
                  -LP/HP knocks the opponent down (Hard knockdown) (10 frame startup, -11 on block)
                  -LK/HK blows them back across the screen (12 frame startup, -9 on block)

-Ya no Sabi (hcb.LP/HP) from Aragami
      -24 frame startup (-12 on block and hard knockdown on hit)
      -Also an overhead
      -Great to use when the opponent is airborne
                 -In a combo, you're going to mainly use this route in the corner as you'll typically be out of range midscreen
                 -LP/HP followup (Migiri Ugachi) for additional damage (17 frame startup, -24 on block)
                        -Hits overhead, hard knockdowns

-Mu no Tsuchi (hcb+B) from Aragami
Hits low, has a lot of startup and is used mostly to play the high/low game, sweeps opponent if hit.
--Hikigane (hcb+B) from Mu no Tsuchi
          His KOF2k/2k1/2k2 hcb+D 'Bullet Upper', has further step in and will combo if the Mu no Tsuchi hits.
          Supercancellable
--Tsurube Otoshi (LP/HP) from Mu no Tsuchi
          'Canned' hyperhop forward into his air dwn+C command attack
          Hits overhead

Dokugami (qcf+HP)
18 frame startup (-8 on block and -6 on hit)
-Both moves have armor properties
       -Possible to stuff guard cancel blowbacks using this move among other normals (Ex: St.C > qcf.LP will beat out guard cancel Blowback)
       -Due to startup, it isn't possible to use as a reversal as you'll be stuffed out

-Tsumiyomi (hcb.HP) from Dokugami
     -9 frame startup (-13 on block and -11 on hit)
     -True blockstring
                -Has a followup into an ender (f+C > dp+HP)
                -Highly unsafe on block (-20 for both f+C and dp+HP)
                        -Mainly use this as a hit-confirm due to the risk
                        -DP Followup will whiff on block if done on crouching opponents

--Batsuyomi (f+P) from Tsumiyomi
Followup from Tsumiyomi, knocks opponent airborne. Horrendously unsafe.

---Oniyaki (dp+P) from Batsuyomi
Followup from Batsuyomi, finishes the 4 hit chain with his dp+A/C, knocks away

Alright cool. Gonna edit the breakdown now. If there's anything else you guys feel is important to add let me know!

Shirakani

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2016, 01:46:13 AM »
One small correction, EX qcf+P is the EX Dokugami, not Aragami. Aragami does not have an EX version.

EX properties:
-Full armor from start to until the hitbox comes out (someone do this against Maxima's FIRIN MAH LAZOR! sometime :D)
-1 full body step extra range, will cleanly combo from close C, f+B

EX Dokugami is most likely intended to be a very long range punish IF you're preempting something and you know the move will hit. First two hits of the chain can be used as hitconfirms... If it hits, do the FULL 4 hit chain.
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Mr.Minionman

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2016, 10:59:46 PM »
This looks like it should be on the wiki. Mind if I edit and copy/paste it on there?

desmond_kof

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2016, 01:29:33 AM »
This looks like it should be on the wiki. Mind if I edit and copy/paste it on there?

Feel free. Make sure it looks nice. :)

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Nereus

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2016, 07:12:38 AM »
This looks like it should be on the wiki. Mind if I edit and copy/paste it on there?
sorry for the late reply.. go ahead!

Coliflowerz

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2016, 12:37:37 AM »
Heard that the patch makes Kyo's cr. D a soft knockdown now.
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Amedø310

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Re: Kyo Breakdown
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2016, 07:54:42 AM »
Kyo 1.01 Notes.

- cr. C damage increase from 40 dmg gnd, 30 dmg anti-air to 70 dmg gnd and 70 dmg anti-air.

- qcf+B, B damage decrease to the same dmg as qcf+D, D. From 40 dmg to 30 dmg.

- Rush AAA is - on block now. No longer +3 or +2.

- hcb+D no longer have low invincibility. Only hcb+B.

- cr. D is soft knockdown.

- cr. C to f+B is no longer possible due to cr. C's huge pushback.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 09:51:48 AM by Amedø310 »