Author Topic: Notes n stuff  (Read 4797 times)

Coliflowerz

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Notes n stuff
« on: August 25, 2016, 09:42:36 AM »
wow ok this guy. Definitely unorthodox but i see a lot of potential. I'ma try to go more indepth than i usually do with him. My bad if it's still messy. I mess around in training mode for an hour or two and take notes of everything i see.

cl. A = Cancel, Even
st. A = Cancel, whiffs crouchers, Negative
cr. A = Cancel, whiff cancel, Positive
 >best for hit confirms, as it chains into itself. Good range. You can chain three.

st. B = Cancel, Negative
cl. B = Cancel, Negative
cr. B = Cancel, Negative, Moves Xanadu forward
 >probably will be good for whiff punishing. Active for awhile so it's great for punishing jumps.

st. C = No, Negative
 >pretty good range.
cl. C = Cancel, Even
cr. C = Cancel, whiff Cancel, Negative
 >His sweep. It being whiff cancelable will make for great mindgames.

st. D = Super Cancel, Positive
 >Active for quite awhile, and quite large.
cl. D = Cancel, Two hits, Negative
cr. D = No, Launches airborne opponents, Negative
 >Fantastic anti air. He can get great damage off of an anti air cr. D.
j. D = Cross Up
 >Giant hitbox.

CD = Negative

f. A (raw) = 75/80
Juggles airborne opponents
Cancelable
Negative on block
Makes Xanadu airborne
Kinda hard to anti air with this. Great for juggle combos though.
Combos from lights

f. A (canceled) = 50/60


qcf A = 85/90
Uppercut with invuln
Combos from lights
Little horizontal range

qcf C = 123/120
More invuln than A version
Slightly more start up
Moves further

qcf AC = 177
Most invuln
Causes shockwave on landing, hits low, doesn't combo. Kinda a gimmick.

qcb A = 97/60
Forward moving attack
Combos from lights
Best way to combo into most of his supers
All versions hard knockdown, good cross up set up. Just jump forward for a cross up j. D. Probably a safe jump set up somewhere
If you hit an airborne opponent, you just get one hit
Unsafe

qcb C = 124/160
Slower than A version
Punish combo ender
Super cancel before 4th hit for best results
More difficult to punish

qcb AC = 165
Armor, but not on first frame
Goes further than regular versions
Juggles better
Very unsafe

qcf B = 66/50
Hitbox gets bigger the further in the animation
Very positive on block
Cannot guard cancel until last hit
Combos from heavy attacks
Can get juggles in the corner
Counts as projectile, can nullify them
This move is Xanadu's most appealing feature; you can just throw them out willy nilly and they can't do much.

qcf D = 87/70
Slower than B version
Active longer
Extremely positive on block
Only combos from CD

qcf BD = 113
About same speed as D version
Larger and more hits
Same frame advantage on block as D version
while you can get some stylish combos with this move, it scales the combo massively, so it's never worth it

hcb B/D = 130
Running command throw
Goes about half screen
Quite slow
Tick throws if canceled from a normal
Hard KD
B and D version are identical?

hcb BD = 160
Faster
Unlimited armor, though not on first frame

qcfx2 P = 179
Good in juggle combos
On landing creates low hitting shockwaves like qcf AC
Can whiff second uppercut if too far
Invuln start up

qcfx2 AC = 347
Better as an anti air than regular version

qcfx2 K = 176
Functions strangely in juggles
Combos from further ranges than qcfx2 P
Best for Advanced and Climax cancels

qcfx2 BD = 337
Slight invuln, more or less the same as regular version with extra hit

hcbx2 BD = 467
Running command grab
Active for a long time
Invuln start up

when it comes to his combos, anything more than 3 meters probably isn't worth it. Xanadu is probably best on point for that reason.

Meterless
cr. A x3 xx qcb A = 152/150
cr. A x2 xx f. A xx qcb C = 197/280
cr. B xx f. A xx qcb C = 188/250
cl. C xx f. A xx qcb C = 228/290

Anti Air
cr. D > qcb A = 147/100
cr. D > qcf C = 174/150 (216/190)

Corner
CD xx qcf D > f. A xx qcf C = 216/330

Corner Anti Air
cr. D > f. A xx qcf C = 241/230

1 Bar/2 Bar (number in parentheses is damage if using EX super)
cr. A x3 xx qcb A (1) xx qcfx2 K or BD = 252/120 (377)
cr. A x2 xx f. A xx qcb C (3) xx qcfx2 P or AC = 298/240 (391)
cr. B xx f. A xx qcb C (3) xx qcfx2 P or AC = 297/210 (398)
cl. C xx f. A xx qcb C (3) xx qcfx2 P or AC = 337/250 (438)

Anti Air
cr. D > qcfx2 P or AC = 249/70 (407)

Corner
CD xx qcf D > f. A xx qcf B (whiff) xx qcfx2 P or AC = 278/250 (372)

Corner Anti Air
cr. D > f. A xx qcfx2 P or AC = 331/150 (459)

cr. B xx f. A xx MAX > cl. C xx f. A xx qcb AC = 280/220

Corner
cr. B xx f. A xx MAX > CD > cr. D > qcf AC = 293/260

2 Bar

cr. B xx f. A xx MAX > cl. C xx f. A xx qcb C (3) xx qcfx2 AC = 411/340

3 Bar
cr. A x3 xx qcb A (1) xx hcbx2 BD = 479/120
cr. A x2 xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx hcbx2 BD = 502/150
cr. B xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx hcbx2 BD = 512/120
cl. C xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx hcbx2 BD = 552/160

Corner
cl. C xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx qcfx2 K xx qcfx2 AC= 560/160

cr. B xx f. A xx MAX > cl. C xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx hcbx2 BD = 494/250

4 Bar/5 Bar (number in parentheses is damage if using EX super)
cr. A x3 xx qcb A (1) xx qcfx2 K (2) or BD (3) xx hcbx2 BD = 531/120 (589)
cr. A x2 xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx qcfx2 K (2) or BD (3) xx hcbx2 BD = 554/150 (612)
cr. B xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx qcfx2 K (2) or BD (3) xx hcbx2 BD = 573/120 (632)
cl. C xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx qcfx2 K (2) or BD (3) xx hcbx2 BD = 613/160 (672)

cr. B xx f. A xx MAX > cl. C xx f. A xx qcb A (1) xx qcfx2 K xx hcbx2 BD = 590/250
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Tofu Warrior

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2016, 04:14:21 PM »
Thank you for putting this together, it's very comprehensive and I learned a lot.

I totally agree with your assessment that Xanadu is strongest on point. He excels at whittling down his opponent's guard gauge, which is most effective when they don't have meter to guard cancel blowback or guard cancel roll. As a block string, j.D > cl.D (both hits) xx f+A xx QCB+C depletes 50% of your opponent's guard gauge.

To add to your combo list, at point blank range you can do cr.A x3, s.B xx f+A xx QCB+A. The combo is possible because both s.B and f+A move Xanadu forward slightly. Easy confirms into big meterless damage into a hard knockdown into a cross up j.D follow up...this character is insanely strong imo.

Does f+A whiff on crouchers though? I find sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

Edit: Forgot to mention that you should add that s.C has one hit of super armor on it.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 04:43:22 PM by Tofu Warrior »

Coliflowerz

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2016, 09:13:08 PM »
wow, didn't know about the st. C bit. And i think f. A can whiff but at further ranges. Up close it should always hit.
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CommandThrower

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2016, 01:35:01 AM »
To add to the discussion, Xanadu's far.D also has one hit of super armor, just like his far.C.

The armor frames on both these normals appear to be in the later stages of the move, so you'd need to do it preemptively, otherwise you'd get stuffed. I think the armor on those moves can make for easy MAX mode confirms should you successfully armor a move and THEN land the hit.

Tofu Warrior

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 04:56:31 PM »
Wow, I didn't know st.D had super armor as well, that's insane. Many armored moves are punishable, but st. D is plus on block. I find it's an effective move for closing the gap with my opponent after getting pushed out of cr. A range. The fact that it has armor means you can use it to approach in neutral, blow through fireballs and hit your opponent.

It's nice that at least a few people are discussing this awesome character, I feel like he's getting overlooked.

Coliflowerz

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2016, 10:05:51 PM »
Yeah I wanna play him if not just for the "what the fuck" factor
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oldboy

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2016, 04:16:31 AM »
I was messing around with Xanadu in training, and it seems like f+A whiffs on crouching Xanadu no matter what. I can't get it to hit at all. It may whiff completely against some other crouching characters as well. Seems like he doesn't have a re-stand move?

Coliflowerz

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2016, 09:33:06 AM »
I was messing around with Xanadu in training, and it seems like f+A whiffs on crouching Xanadu no matter what. I can't get it to hit at all. It may whiff completely against some other crouching characters as well. Seems like he doesn't have a re-stand move?

was i high when I took these notes? Fuck you're absolutely right. That's gonna make hit confirming cr. B annoying.
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desmond_kof

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2016, 07:52:42 PM »
j.D crosses up fairly well, especially on crouching opponents, I've noticed.
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Coliflowerz

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2016, 09:48:16 PM »
j.D crosses up fairly well, especially on crouching opponents, I've noticed.

It's fantastic. qcb P sets up the perfect distance too. Id you hop, no cross up. not an amazing set up, but solid.
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Chris Universe

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 12:59:07 PM »
Just in case people are having trouble figuring out the timing of Xanadu's two armor moves, I recorded a couple of clips to illustrate when exactly the armor property is active for.

For his st.C the armor activates just as he start extending his elbows for the palm trust, and I believe it's active all the way up until the move is about to hit, or a frame or two before that. This makes it so you have to be preemptive with it to utilize its armor properties, but still fast enough to use against jump in's or a baited wake up reversal move in the corner (though against jump in's his amazing cr.D is honestly a better and more reliable choice, and can of course lead to combos). https://twitter.com/chrisunivrs/status/769835765396373504

His st.D only has armor towards the end of the move, just as he's about done extending his head and until it hits. So basically you wanna think of it as him using his chrome dome to headbutt fireballs out of existence, as that's basically what it looks like :P. It's pretty great for getting in against somebody throwing fireballs at you, but as the active armor frames on this seems fewer than on his st.C it can take some training getting used to the spacing. https://twitter.com/chrisunivrs/status/769836188328919044

Lastly, I thought I'd point out that these aren't just single hit armored moves, but multi hit armored moves. Not only that, but unlike armored moves in many other fighting games (dunno about past KoF titles as I've only ever played them very casually) you don't armor through but still take damage or potential damage (white life), you actually take no damage. Meaning you're effectively invincible during these armored frames (even though I guess they wouldn't technically be called invincible frames since they have a special effect to them when hit). Just for the heck of it I recorded a clip showing of the multi hit armor of both moves as well https://twitter.com/chrisunivrs/status/769843042484359168

I hope somebody might find this useful, and thanks to OP for all the great info on Xanadu in general; I learned a lot from it :).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 01:02:16 PM by Chris Universe »

Coliflowerz

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2016, 08:07:06 PM »
Thank you so much for that research!
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Tofu Warrior

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2016, 08:38:07 PM »
I would never have guessed those moves could absorb multiple hits, thanks a lot for putting those videos together.

I found this video on Youtube (full credit goes to CommandThrower) which goes over Xanadu's safe jump/cross-up set ups after QCB+P. Coliflowerz was the first to discover it, but it's nice to have this tech in video format.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 08:39:51 PM by Tofu Warrior »

Coliflowerz

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2016, 09:06:37 PM »
CommandThrower pulling through \^o^/

I'm guessing it's a 8 frame or so safe jump. I don't think there's anything short enough to do in order to time it so it's a legit 3 or 4 frame safe jump, like whiffing a jab or sumth. also if you hop you won't cross up.
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Jon Slayton

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Re: Notes n stuff
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2016, 01:31:52 PM »
Found a guard crush setup off one bar if you're crazy enough to run him anchor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvcdCnX870M

Also compiled a video of all his random armor and invincibility moves you may not have expected:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMifEDONkhc&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 02:46:45 PM by Jon Slayton »