Author Topic: Chin Gentsai (Arcade Version)  (Read 18358 times)

krazykone123

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2010, 03:22:14 PM »
This thread makes me want to play Chin

I look forward to seeing you pull that off during an actual match against a real K'.

Gonna need that match-up experience yo

Kane317

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2010, 01:03:56 PM »
Too damn cool. Thanks for the video.

I look forward to seeing you pull that off during an actual match against a real K'.

All I play are top tier (near-top tier chars).  In reality, Chin never saves up two drive/full cancel meters in a match.  One drive cancel can extend your combo so much (especially if you have meter for Ex df.BD juggles) that it messes with your game if you're trying to conserve for a HD.  I'm slowly trying to change my style so I can build up for it but it's re-conditioning my Chin so I'm finding it challenging.  Don't forget his combos have so many starters (Ex counter, overhead, d.B, crossups, juggles etc... all begging me to drive cancel).

Gonna need that match-up experience yo

Kula and Andy is more of challenge for me.  K' is still a pain, but every now and then I can slip under him with my rotation punches (hcf+K) as he's still tempted to do Eins Trigger (qcf+P), just remember to hcf+K after the qcf+P is out and not as it's coming out otherwise it hits low!

---

Forgot to post up some damage on some combos:
-s.C, HD, s.C, qcb A, [HDC] hcf B, qcb A, [HDC] hcf D, (df.B, qcb C, [HDC] hcf D) x3, df.B x4, qcf x2+AC (~785dmg)
 ∟ Not too shabby for 2 stocks + HD and more practical than starting it with a drink DM.  If you replace the s.C, HD, s.C starter with d.B, d.A, HD it'll do 727dmg.

minor UPDATE5 (Finally a fullscreen variations, thanks to l2slythe for the idea and I made a slight variation):
-s.C, BC, s.C, qcb C, [HDC] hcf D, qcb A, [HDC] hcf B, df.B, hcf B, (qcb C, [HDC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B) x2, df.B x2 ~B, qcf x2+AC (805dmg for 35 hits).

UPDATE4: Odd combo from JBBS but forgot to post it: 3D>双手>C鉄山靠>A跳撃>(DC)D回転的>EX二起脚>D回転的>3B>A鉄山靠 ※ダメ658(飲酒1)
Midscreen: (drink) df.D, QP, qcb~hcf+C, (wires) qcb+A, [DC] hcf D, df.BD, hcf D, df.B, qcb~hcf+A (658)

UPDATE2:
-df.D, d x2+P.P, hcf+BD, qcb+AC, hcf B, qcb C, [DC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B, df.BD, hcf B, df.B x4, s.A (597dmg, 18 hits, 3 stock 1 drive)
 ∟ Special notes about this combo :1) The more Quickie Punches you do (1, 2 or 3 sets) the less damage it deals due to damage scaling.  1 set of QP does 18 hits 597dmg;  2 sets of QP does 20 hits 575dmg; 3 sets of QP does 22 hits 550dmg.   Hence, do 1 set to prevent damage scaling especially if you wanna add a Ex Dm (The Japanese BBS alway said that about the Quickie Punches in general, to only do 1 set, and now I know why).  
2) You would think that by doing more Quickie Punches, you at least build more meter; not the case, I don't know why but it's exactly the same whether you do 1 set of QP or 3 sets which leads me to...
3) This combo charges exactly 1 full bar so although you're using 3 stocks and 1 drive, it's really just 2 stocks plus 1 drive (real cool).
4) If you omit the Ex qcb+AC it'll be 17hits for 529dmg.

UPDATE1:
-s.C, HD, s.C, Ex hcf K, Ex qcb P, hcf B, (qcb C, [HDC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B,) x4  df.B.B, s.C (, hcf~b+P/rdp+P-drink optional) 825dmg
 ∟ So far, Chin's strongest 2 stock + HD combo.  A little trickier than the combo listed above it's worth the extra damage.

-df.D, QP, Ex hcf K, hcf B, qcb C, [DC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B, df.B x3, Ex qcf x2+AC DM (28 hits, 3 stocks 1 drive, 615dmg)
 ∟ Slightly more damage than the combo listed under UPDATE2, both are 3 stocks 1 drive.  The key to discern which to use is how many stocks you are begin with.  If you have 3 stocks 1 drive to begin with, go for this one.  If you only have 2 stocks 1 drive then do the 597 one and you should be able to build a full stock to add the df.BD in the end.

---

UPDATE3:
Did more "countering" situations damage testings.

a) Ex qcb K, hcf B, df.B, qcb A, [DC] hcf D, df.BD, hcf B, df.B x4, s.A (16 hits, 2 stocks 1 drive, 525dmg)
  ∟ You can start off with 1 DM and you should build 1 more stock by the time you finish your combo

b) qcb B, Ex hcf K, hcf B, qcb C, [DC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B, df.BD, hcf B, df.B x4, s.A (15 hits, 2 stocks 1 drive, 533dmg)
  ∟ Slightly better anti air option however sometimes if the counter triggers too early the opponent won't stay grounded

c) Ex qcb K, Ex hcf K, hcf B, qcb C, [DC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B, df.B x3, s.A (14 hits, 2 stocks 1 drive, 570dmg)
  ∟ Again, more damage than the first 2 combos, but it depends on how much you start with.  If you only have 1 stock 1 drive to begin with then combo b) is safer bet

d) Ex qcb K, Ex hcf K, hcf B, qcb C, [DC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B, df.BD, hcf B, df.B x4, s.A (18 hits, 3 stocks 1 drive, 628dmg)
  ∟ Use this one if you started off with 2 stocks 1 drive and you're confident that you'll build 1 more in time

e) qcb B, Ex hcf K, hcf B, qcb C, [DC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B, df.B x3, Ex qcf x2+AC DM (26 hits, 3 stocks 1 drive, 600dmg)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 03:59:26 AM by Kane317 »

krazykone123

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2010, 07:16:48 AM »
So Kane you played the game for awhile, who gives you the most trouble when you're playing as Chin?

Kane317

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2011, 11:56:23 PM »
So Kane you played the game for awhile, who gives you the most trouble when you're playing as Chin?

Who doesn't?  Lol.  Fast characters like K' and Iori give Chin a hard time since he relies on a lot of Far C's into df.B for anti airs which accidentally becomes s.C a lot (no anti air hit box).  Also, due to their sheer speed, if I mis-guess a counter they can dash in a combo.  

Characters with long down pokes as the non-Ex rotation punches (hcf+K) is vulnerable to low hits; like Ash, Kensou, Kula, Leona (she can Moon Slash the hell out of my floaty jumps as well), Benimaru etc...

1-framers, as they can punish me after a blocked overhead before my Quickie Punches come out (like command throws etc...)

I'm sure I'll think of more overtime, but otherwise he can hold his own.

EDIT: Ground projectilers like Kyo, Terry and Joe are also a little bit trickier as he needs to utilize his Ex hcf+K (invincible during mid roll) to rotate thru the projectiles.

---

From the BBS, a "real" 100% combo (doesn't require drinking):
ジャンプD>C>張果老>構え中D>HD発動>C>弱月牙跳撃>強回転的空突拳>(強月牙跳撃>強回転的空突拳>二起脚・一段目)3
>弱月牙跳撃>酔操・轟欄炎炮(レバー上)>EX騰空飛天砲ダメージ1009

j.D, s.C, dx2 +D.D (does Far D), HD, s.C, qcb A, [HDC] hcf D, (qcb C, [HDC] hcf D, df.B)x3, qcb A, [HDC] Neo Max qcf x2+BD (hold up), Ex qcf x2 +P DM (1009 dmg)

For the last qcb A: if you're finding it difficult to [HDC] into his NM of the qcb A, just use add the second B on the last df.B (df.B.B), it does the same damage as qcb P and it's easier to cancel if you ask me.

UPDATE3: d.B, d.A, BC, s.C, Ex hcf K, Ex qcb P, hcf B, (qcb+C, [HDC] hcf D, df.B, hcf.B) x4, df.B x2, Ex DM 40hits for 892dmg.
---
UPDATE adding some non-Drive combos:

No stock:

-s.A, d.B, QP, df.B, qcb A (170dmg)

1 stock:

-s.A, d.B, QP, Ex hcf K, hcf B, df.B.B (310dmg) and in the corner you can add a s.C at the end for 352dmg.

2 stocks:

-s.A, d.B, QP, Ex hcf K, Ex qcb P, hcf B, df.B.B (393dmg)

-s.A, d.B, QPx3, df.B, Ex qcf x2+AC DM  (408dmg)

3 stocks:

-s.A, d.B, QP, Ex hcf K, hcf B, df.B, Ex DM (511dmg depending on # of hits on Ex DM)

-UPDATE2: With a j.D, s.C, Ex hcf K starter it's 529dmg for 19 hits

-Just for kicks, here's the same combo after drinking five times.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 01:28:46 AM by Kane317 »

SAB-CA

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2011, 10:17:01 PM »
Well, this video posted by Toxic Avenger on Orochi Nagi contains something for chin I haven't seen mentioned:

http://youtu.be/BULALroMWLw

He attempts it earlier, but at 1:29, he manages to land 3 sets of "Wak wak" quicking punches, and then link that into Far D, and go into HD mode to continue comboing.

So YAY, Chin can HD off overhead -> quickie punches! I don't believe I've seen that mentioned anywhere else. Was this known?

Kane317

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2011, 03:53:10 AM »
Well, this video posted by Toxic Avenger on Orochi Nagi contains something for chin I haven't seen mentioned:

http://youtu.be/BULALroMWLw

He attempts it earlier, but at 1:29, he manages to land 3 sets of "Wak wak" quicking punches, and then link that into Far D, and go into HD mode to continue comboing.

So YAY, Chin can HD off overhead -> quickie punches! I don't believe I've seen that mentioned anywhere else. Was this known?

I was so excited to see a post in the Chin section haha.  

See post above, it's been mentioned that the link is particularly tricky.  During the d x2+Punches you have to do d x2+D and not do it too quick or too slow (have to be inputted on the first hit of the 1-2 quickie punches) and then continue from there.  

It has not been captured on video though AFAIK.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 03:57:41 AM by Kane317 »

SAB-CA

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2011, 10:04:05 AM »
Doh, I skimmed all that was here on the second page, but I guess the info was on the first page most likely?

Well, good that it hadn't been captured on video before now, nice to have a visual reference for it, especially for those whom have no legit ways to play the game before console release!

Great, another mark of "Skill" to add to Chin use!

AzureTAG

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2011, 03:16:09 AM »
100% (No drunk) Chin combo KOF XIII - Chin Gentsai (No Drunk) Combo 100% (1013 damage)   "Neo Max not that effective at all " You can combo into and from it like Yuri's neomax, if that not effective then...

Kane317

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2011, 10:32:37 PM »
Rare occurrence of a good Chin player winning some matches:

1. No.1 a-cho KOF合同大会 第3回カッザガーデン「KOF13」終了後 野試合 - No.1 a-cho KOF合同大会 第3回カッザガーデン「KOF13」終了後 野試合 <--Starting from the 15min mark.

sibarraz

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2011, 02:10:28 AM »
Rare occurrence of a good Chin player winning some matches:

1. No.1 a-cho KOF合同大会 第3回カッザガーデン「KOF13」終了後 野試合 - No.1 a-cho KOF合同大会 第3回カッザガーデン「KOF13」終了後 野試合 <--Starting from the 15min mark.

I watched some of your matches and I'm not that impressed to see chin winning

I was more shocked with that godlike maxima, still, chin seems so fun to use, I like his mix up game and how he lands his combos

Still, I want to ask you kane, I had never understood that combo of chin using all his hd meter, you cancel some moves who will later produces juggles so you keep continuing hitting your opponent? is hard to do?


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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2011, 02:30:44 AM »
I watched some of your matches and I'm not that impressed to see chin winning

Haha, he's spoiled it for all of us! :)

Really Kane, this past weekends Southtown stream still remembered your Chin preformance from 3 weeks ago now! "Hey, someone play Chin!" was heard quite a few times over those hours...

Sibarraz, for me, in my limited time with Chin at Otakon, the hardest part I had to get used to was when to use what. Each roll has different ranges, and you have to be paying enough attention to not do too many df ;b, and to notice if your spacing was different enough to warrant using qcf b rather than d.

Having mained Chin in XII myself, I found doing basic cancel combos with him much easier than most other characters. His commands were more direct, his free cancels gave me more time to think so that I could use my Drive Cancels, and the damage buff from drinks made everything I did successfully land that much stronger.

A guy afterwards screamed out "CHIN IS CHEAP!"... at which point my little brother, who is normally very quiet about these things, turned around instantly and answered "CHIN IS CHEAP!" He's been way too burned by my 98UM matches VS him, so he didn't even have to think about it...

The only thing I wish I had back, since it was SO nice, is Chin's 2 hit air ;c . He, Geese, and Heavy D! were the few who had something like that, so I'm kinda sad to see such a unique thing gone. Well, I wouldn't mind him being able to plug himself with fire for an EX DM or such now either, since I'll always remember him being able to do THAT since 94 and 95... was one of my favorite things to save up meter for!

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2011, 03:14:51 AM »
I actually am considering Chin as an anchor or #2 man for an extra team. I want to expand my horizons. Is there anything I should try to get down first before getting into him? For example, any basic tactics or combos I should hit in training mode or a mindset I should practice with him?

Any little bit helps!

Kane317

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2011, 05:35:33 AM »
Still, I want to ask you kane, I had never understood that combo of chin using all his hd meter, you cancel some moves who will later produces juggles so you keep continuing hitting your opponent? is hard to do?

Like most characters, once you get the hang of it, it's not too hard to do.  There are however certain things to keep in mind which explains why I use certain setups over others and why in general you'll see more [DC] combos (even 2 in one combo) over a longer [HD] combo.  

* In order to activate and HD combo with Chin you have to use his normals; neither one of his command attacks (df.B or df.D) will activate it.  
* His jumps are super floaty, have a low jump arch, and his normals lack range; hence are predictable so it's not very practical as one would like.
* The only other setups to activate HD combos are thru his stance follow-ups which aren't the easiest to do: Quickie Punch (d x2+P.P) --> Kick stance (d x2+K) --> s.A (press A)
* and Ex QP.  The Ex QP allows a s.C to follow up which can allow you to goto into [HD].
* However, from the wiki: The Ex version needs to be done close for the third hit to connect and hence even if one d.B is added before the Ex QP, the third hit will miss and hence no follow up. The only thing that will combo into the Ex version and have all three connect is df.D, QP, Ex QP, s.C, [HD]
 
Hence you'll see me use this setup often and note the strengths of the buttons do matter: {Mid screen} (s.C/ Quickie Punch,) Ex hcf+K, hcf+B, (qcb C, [DC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B) x2, df.B.B, Ex DM.  

Since I'm not in [HD], Chin builds up meter so you can easily have 2 meters for your Ex DM towards the end.

Sibarraz, for me, in my limited time with Chin at Otakon, the hardest part I had to get used to was when to use what. Each roll has different ranges, and you have to be paying enough attention to not do too many df ;b, and to notice if your spacing was different enough to warrant using qcf b rather than d.

Having mained Chin in XII myself, I found doing basic cancel combos with him much easier than most other characters. His commands were more direct, his free cancels gave me more time to think so that I could use my Drive Cancels, and the damage buff from drinks made everything I did successfully land that much stronger.

A guy afterwards screamed out "CHIN IS CHEAP!"... at which point my little brother, who is normally very quiet about these things, turned around instantly and answered "CHIN IS CHEAP!" He's been way too burned by my 98UM matches VS him, so he didn't even have to think about it...

The only thing I wish I had back, since it was SO nice, is Chin's 2 hit air ;c . He, Geese, and Heavy D! were the few who had something like that, so I'm kinda sad to see such a unique thing gone. Well, I wouldn't mind him being able to plug himself with fire for an EX DM or such now either, since I'll always remember him being able to do THAT since 94 and 95... was one of my favorite things to save up meter for!

Lol.  I also wish he had his double hitter back as well.

When you start diving into the longer combos his timing gets a little trickier due to juggle height and distance.  For example, if you combo into his Ex df.BD too closely, his follow hcf K will still connect but anything after that will not. Basically, if the hcf+K doesn't juggle them at the tip of his front fist, the df.B will not cancel into anything.  Often times you'll see Reynald and I do --> hcf+K, df.B and we won't do any finisher and it'll look like we dropped a combo but it's not the case.  Trying to wait a little is also incredibly hard to time due to his travel distance and height as mentioned before; and I can do the normal "delay" juggle combos for most characters.  

Also knowing the strengths of the buttons and which one can be followed up in mid screen and which one can only be done in the corner is a pain (e.g hcf+D, df+B should only be done in the corner unless you're using the Ex version; however hcf+D does more damage and setups longer juggles etc...)

Objectively speaking, he looks easy to play until you venture into his intermediate stuff which is the only explanation why so many ppl dropped him including overseas players as well.

I actually am considering Chin as an anchor or #2 man for an extra team. I want to expand my horizons. Is there anything I should try to get down first before getting into him? For example, any basic tactics or combos I should hit in training mode or a mindset I should practice with him?

Any little bit helps!

Well my tips are very generic as I've spelled out everything else in Chin's Wiki entry, but first of all get familiarize with all of his normals and specials.  Sounds easy enough but you really have to spend time.  The strengths in the buttons do make a difference although hard to spot when watching.  Qcb A and C have different startups and juggles, hcf+B and D have different damages and vary in travel distance.  Counters B and counters D have different follow ups (and B having two depending on air attacks or ground ones).  Finally execution his his QP are crucial, once you get the timing of it it's easy but a challenge at first (especially to cancel out of).

Then read the last 2 pages+ wiki like 2-3 times then you can just ask me as many questions as possible afterwards lol.  

Seriously good luck.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 02:41:34 AM by Kane317 »

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2011, 08:58:05 AM »
Nice details there; easily more than I would have picked up on in 2 days, haha. I also have to mention that his EX counter seemed to have a much smaller counter window than I expected; especially since Betty's normal counters seem to stay out for days. I guess it was kinda more like Blue Mary (Activate right before hit) than I'd expected (I remember kinda letting people just... drop into my counters on XII.)

I have to say, I'd love to get someone as oddball as Chin for DLC (I still want Tung Fu Rue!), but I wonder if anyone they'd add could be as refreshing as he. They did such a fantastic job rebuilding him, compared to his old self...

So tricky, but so satisfying!

Kane317

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Re: Chin Gentsai
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2011, 03:54:12 AM »
100% (No drunk) Chin combo KOF XIII - Chin Gentsai (No Drunk) Combo 100% (1013 damage)   "Neo Max not that effective at all " You can combo into and from it like Yuri's neomax, if that not effective then...

I dunno how I missed that comment.  It sounds good on paper until you review the damage.  The air version NM does a measly 336dmg (14x24, the lowest in the game by a margin), the Ex DM on the other hand does 320dmg.  Now if that's not convincing enough you can factor in how much juggling he can do before doing the NM, something you cannot do if you end the combo with a NM early.

Let's examine this combo:
1. d.B, d.A, BC, s.C, Ex hcf K, Ex qcb P, hcf B, (qcb+C, [HDC] hcf D, df.B, hcf.B) x4, df.B x2, Ex DM 40hits for 892dmg

If you were do a NM finisher, you would have to replace the last { qcb+C, [HDC] hcf D } for a { qcb+C, [MC] NM}.  

Let's see how much damaging you're missing:
...hcf+D, df.B, hcf.B, df.B x2 --> Ex DM

That's 90+20+70+20+20= 220 but you the Ex DM does 16 less damage so you still do an extra 204 dmg by skipping the NM.  I know there's damaging scaling for every added hit but is negligible when you're talking about an extra 204.  If you want to make it more damaging just add Ex moves in the beginning instead of doing NM.

Q.E.D.

---
EDIT for KCE goodness: KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その320 Conclusion2011 vol.1(Kim&Psycho) (6m30s)
New Chin variation:
UPDATE: Correct strengths added
qcb+B, hcf+B, (df.BD, hcf+B, df.B, df.B.B, qcb+A, [DC] hcf+B, df.B,
hcf+B)x2, (df.BD, hcf+B)x2, df.B x2, df.B.B, s.C (Stun),
rdp P x3, df.D, QP x3, Ex hcf K, hcf B, qcb C, [DC] hcf D, df.B, hcf B,
Ex df.K, hcf B,
df.B, (delay) df.B~B, qcb~hcf+A DM

EDIT2 for new, seemingly strongest HD combo variation yet: (Full credit goes to No.17's friend Kantoku, translations done by No.17)

s.C, HD, s.C, (qcb+A, [DC] hcf+D)x2, df.B, qcb+C [DC] hcf+D, qcb+A, hcf+D,
df.B, hcf+B, qcb+C, [DC] hcf+D, df.B, hcf+B, (df.B.B, s.C) / (df.B qcfx2+P DM) / (df.B.B, qcfx2+P DM)

  • 779dmg with df.B, qcf x2+P DM
  • 846dmg with df.B.B, qcf x2+P Ex DM for 35hits
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 12:25:03 PM by Kane317 »