KOF 2002UM - EX Takuma

[nilcam]

Throws:
Wide Slicer - close / +
Single Heave-ho - close / +
           
Command Moves:
Demon's Vehicle - +
Vehicle Drop - +
Bottle Breaker - +
Horse Strike - +
                     
Special Moves:
Tiger Flame Punch - + /
Tiger Boulder Blast - + /
Zan Retsu Ken - , , + /
Shouran Kyaku - + /
Lightning Legs Knockout Kick - charge ~ + /
                     
Desperation Moves:
Haoh Shi Koh Ken - , + /
Ryuko Ranbu - , + /
Neo Demon-God Attack - close, + /
                     
Super Desperation Moves:
Ryuko Ranbu - , + +
       
HSDM:
Lion Killer - , + +

[jinxhand]

What's the frame advantage for Takuma's + / ???

[sibarraz]

if you connect his weak hao sho ko ken after his lightning legs kick you can connect his MAX2

[krazykone123]

What's the frame advantage for Takuma's + / ???

-1 on block for qcf +
-3 on block for qcf +

That should be at point blank range too.

[Shinra Shiranui]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHspbhSDaIM&feature=related

EX Takuma Master Class Tutorial

[jinxhand]

I haven't been doing much with EX Takuma til a few days ago... I'm really digging that + to + link. I cancel to his fireball if + doesn't knock down. On knockdown, a + follow up does the trick...

I did fight a Japanese player though, and he managed to get a + , to + off of his ~ + .

I didn't get the chance to figure out the dmg, because I haven't nailed the combo (I tried a long time ago, and can't remember if I did nail it)... Anyway, despite its somewhat difficulty, is this better to do than a simple + ???

He's fun, but I'm convinced that OG Takuma is better, especially seeing as he can break guard easily, and has great + + setups and great options after that. EX Takuma does control space better though, and can easily switch from zone to rushdown in a split second...

[PhoeniX]

I haven't been doing much with EX Takuma til a few days ago... I'm really digging that + to + link. I cancel to his fireball if + doesn't knock down. On knockdown, a + follow up does the trick...

It's not a link but a cancel. If you cancel into command normals they lose their special properties (like hard knockdown, overhead etc.) If you would link, or late cancel into it, it wouldn't. It's important to distinguish links from cancels to avoid confusion.

I did fight a Japanese player though, and he managed to get a + , to + off of his ~ + .

I didn't get the chance to figure out the dmg, because I haven't nailed the combo (I tried a long time ago, and can't remember if I did nail it)... Anyway, despite its somewhat difficulty, is this better to do than a simple + ???

Not sure. Both seem alright, you get a better knockdown off f+A.

He's fun, but I'm convinced that OG Takuma is better, especially seeing as he can break guard easily, and has great + + setups and great options after that. EX Takuma does control space better though, and can easily switch from zone to rushdown in a split second...

EX Takuma is way better than regular Takuma. To an extent that I've only seen a couple of people ever play regular Takuma in 2002UM. Guardbreaking with regular Takuma isn't that good. Pretty much the only time that it's useful is doing hcb,f+C at point blank range, after which you can actually follow up after the guard break. But that move has so much startup that 1. You have to do it on hard knockdown 2. Even if you do it, it's so slow people can react to it quite easily and dragon punch/reversal roll.

It's not bad per definition, but it is pretty hard to actually get his guard crushes set up. So you can hardly count that as a reason why regular Takuma would be better than EX takuma. If anything is hcb+K attacks are what make regular Takuma really really good.

[desmond_kof]

EX Takuma is way better than regular Takuma. To an extent that I've only seen a couple of people ever play regular Takuma in 2002UM. Guardbreaking with regular Takuma isn't that good. Pretty much the only time that it's useful is doing hcb,f+C at point blank range, after which you can actually follow up after the guard break. But that move has so much startup that 1. You have to do it on hard knockdown 2. Even if you do it, it's so slow people can react to it quite easily and dragon punch/reversal roll.

It's not bad per definition, but it is pretty hard to actually get his guard crushes set up. So you can hardly count that as a reason why regular Takuma would be better than EX takuma. If anything is hcb+K attacks are what make regular Takuma really really good.

Umm, are you sure about that? You do know that you can go into BC max mode off one bar, make them block a cl.C or D, a st. CD or a hcb + B, then cancel any of those into his qcf + C for a guard crush then immediately super cancel into his ranbu? That's free damage from them blocking, especially dangerous in the corner. The only way to not get hit with that super is to take the first hit for it won't cancel into the qcf + C. Yea, you can guard cancel roll or attack the first hit, but if they have no meter, they are in trouble. Also, you can fake out his st. D into his qcf + C while in that mode if you feel they are fishing to guard cancel. I feel that's what gives Takuma more points than EX, IMO.

[jinxhand]

I haven't been doing much with EX Takuma til a few days ago... I'm really digging that + to + link. I cancel to his fireball if + doesn't knock down. On knockdown, a + follow up does the trick...

It's not a link but a cancel. If you cancel into command normals they lose their special properties (like hard knockdown, overhead etc.) If you would link, or late cancel into it, it wouldn't. It's important to distinguish links from cancels to avoid confusion.

Yeah I meant to specify that whole link/cancel thing... Normally I'm shooting for that knockdown, but sometimes my timing is off, or the opponent manages to block... That sounds like an idea for an article writeup

EX Takuma is way better than regular Takuma. To an extent that I've only seen a couple of people ever play regular Takuma in 2002UM. Guardbreaking with regular Takuma isn't that good. Pretty much the only time that it's useful is doing hcb,f+C at point blank range, after which you can actually follow up after the guard break. But that move has so much startup that 1. You have to do it on hard knockdown 2. Even if you do it, it's so slow people can react to it quite easily and dragon punch/reversal roll.

It's not bad per definition, but it is pretty hard to actually get his guard crushes set up. So you can hardly count that as a reason why regular Takuma would be better than EX takuma. If anything is hcb+K attacks are what make regular Takuma really really good.

Well, from my personal experience, I feel OG Takuma is better. Desmond's right about that free damage thing. I've fought some strong OG Takuma's and they pretty much rushed to break that guard for free damage. I've personally only fought about a handful of EX Takumas compared to OG Takumas...

I will say that EX Takuma is strong, especially considering the fact he has more command normals that allow for some good mixup, and he controls space well, plus he has that running grab, and a great HSDM which doesn't really require a setup to use like Takuma's HSDM counter... But again this is my personal experience... This is coming from one who still prefers to use Kyo-1 even though he's the weakest of the Kyo clones...

[Mr Bakaboy]

To me it's more of a pick your poison type of thing. OG Takuma is a close in style with safer attacks, and more invincibility frames to boot, but he has the greater opportunity to whiff. Ex Takuma is better worked from mid to long range with close range thrown in to keep the opponent off balance with having easier hit confirms but his moves come out slower and have a longer recovery time on top of his supers are not safe except for the 1st frame start up.

OG Takuma takes more time to learn IMO cause you need to know what will or will not work where EX Takuma is very noob friendly.

[jinxhand]

So I managed to get the damage from both of those combos. They both do the same amount of dmg on NH... The ~ + , + , + is actually kinda nice though. I had pressed 3 times and on the 3rd hit that and to connect the hit. I guess the aerial hitbox is way behind the opponent, or the hitbox for + is rather short-- I'm not sure...

[PhoeniX]

To me it's more of a pick your poison type of thing. OG Takuma is a close in style with safer attacks, and more invincibility frames to boot, but he has the greater opportunity to whiff.

Really? I'm not that familiar with KOF2002UM Regular Takuma, but Takuma in Vanilla 2002 has no invincibility whatsoever except on his Supers.

Did they change any of that, or are you talking about Guard point frames rather than invincibility frames?

[Mr Bakaboy]

I'm not familiar with the terminology guard point frames. It sounds like the start up frames of an animation at best guess for me but please enlighten me if I am wrong. Played fighting games for 20 years, but never got in to the new terminology until a few years ago, so I'm still working on it.

Ryoko Ranbu passes through anything unlike EX Takuma where you just have the short frame or 2 on the initial start up. I was playing Jinxhand the other day to sit and confirm stuff and quite a few moves have the invinciblity frames at start up. I believe the hurricane kick on light at least was one, but I always suck on remembering.

The basic premise of OG Takuma is to get inside and work with his fast recovery and invincible start ups while throwing the fireball at medium range for maximum effect (cause most of the time your opponent with be more inclined to attack at medium range). The 2 kinda remind me of Ken and Ryu from Marvel vs series with the trade offs you get.

[FataCon]

I'm not familiar with the terminology guard point frames. It sounds like the start up frames of an animation at best guess for me but please enlighten me if I am wrong. Played fighting games for 20 years, but never got in to the new terminology until a few years ago, so I'm still working on it.

Guard point is the term used to refer to the autoguard frames of an attack. It's basically when an attack cannot be interrupted by other normal attacks i.e. Maxima's Vapor Cannon.

[Mr Bakaboy]

Thanks, appreciate the clarification.