Author Topic: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread  (Read 138587 times)

phoenix

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2010, 08:49:08 PM »
An addition to the wakeup speeds, I've taken a look on the way KOF2002 (vanilla, but I'm guessing it will also apply to UM) handles reversals and safejump situations.

Setup that I've experimented this with is the following:
In the corner K' does C grab against kyo, then does a safejump hop C so that it connects with the very first active frame of hop C on the very first vulnerable frame of Kyo's wakeup and the frame after K' immediately goes into landing animation.

After doing any jump, you will always have 1 landing frame in which you are unable to block.

Normals can be executed on the first frame after the period of invulnerability. Specials though, are different.
They can actually be executed one frame BEFORE invulnerability of wakeup ends.

So let's say you want to safejump Kyo, and he does a reversal dp+C.

dp+C is 5 frames startup so becomes active on the 6th frame.

If you time your hop+C so that it would connect on the first vulnerable frame, dp+C would already be in its SECOND frame of startup because specials start a frame earlier on reversal,

third frame of dp+C is K''s land frame.
fourth frame K' blocks
fifth frame K' blocks
sixth frame K' blocks and dp+C becomes active.

As there is 2 frames where K' doesn't actually need to block the attack, that means there's in total a 3 frame window of space to safejump a dp+C in total.

--

Instead of a dp+C let's see what happens if Kyo would do a reversal close C (2 frame startup) instead.

first active frame of hop C beats out first frame of close C.

If you time your hop C a frame late it is still safe:
first active frame of hop C beats out second frame of close C.

If you time your hop C 2 frames late it trades:
first active frame of hop C trade with third frame (first active frame) of close C.

--

So it's actually harder to safejump a close C than it is to safejump a dp+C. But it's easier to reversal with dp+C as it is a 2 frame window (either you reversal the frame before you would leave invincibility, OR the frame you leave invincibility, by extension a late reversal is slightly easier to safejump because it starts a frame later).

krazykone123

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2010, 10:55:29 PM »
Very insightful write-up

Seeing as it switches up depending on the move, make me wonder how one would react to reversal DM's? I know some of them can be baited but what if K' jumped in using his hop C and his opponent quickly does a reversal DM like Athena's Shining Crystal Bit (MAX version) or K9999's Moon DM, what are his options for defending or would be just outright get hit?

phoenix

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2010, 12:08:42 AM »
DM's have huge startup in kof games. Safejumping them is incredibly easy. Even a quick DM like Athena's SDM Shining Crystal Bit (that's 2xHCB+AC) or K9999's Moon are slower than the quickest dragon punch. (K9999's moon is 9 frames startup for example).

Cibernetico

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2010, 05:41:37 PM »
sigh.....still waiting on anything about the XBL port of the 2k2UM game.

Nikolai VolKOF

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2010, 09:20:12 PM »
when the fuck is it coming to xbla ? wtf!!

Phoenixazure

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2010, 11:52:29 AM »
Its been announced on their facebook page that 2K2UM will be out on 360 November 3rd for 800 MS points

sibarraz

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2010, 04:35:18 PM »
Just in time to receive the free 800 microsoft points for spending 2400 this month : p


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Nikolai VolKOF

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2010, 08:00:05 PM »
Hell yeah! Nice...

Cibernetico

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2010, 09:16:06 PM »
OMG THANK YOU! I can finally say I will get a chance to play this game. And here's to hoping they made the NGBC netcode even better.

Gorehound

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2010, 10:10:46 PM »
FINALLY!!

What took them so long?

I'm still a little skeptical on the netcode.

nilcam

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2010, 10:11:39 PM »
I may consider getting a 360 if the netcode is spectacular. It's a pretty big investment given that I'd also need to buy a PS2 > 360 converter and a wired controller in order to use my controller of preference (Neo Geo Pad).

sibarraz

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2010, 10:22:10 PM »
If the netcode is like the used in NGBC (or better) I think that we will had a very good game, I had played with north americans good matches in the 360

Honestly, I don't care if the game has the 2d backgrounds (I found them better) or if the game isn't in HD,  the only things that I want is that the game is a port of the Arcade Game (judging by the backgrounds, this must be the case) and maybe, just maybe that they included the color edit option, because I really loved the one used in the ps2 game, specially because you could change the colors of kim's phoenix :D

But even without those, I don't care, I will still get this great game that I had been waitng for some long, to play without going to a friend's house


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phoenix

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2010, 08:54:59 PM »
Guide to ghetto programmable training dummy in kof2002 (and other games that run in FBA).

Annoyed by my lack of being able to effectively punish moves that should be unsafe, I have found a way to hit up trainingmode in kof2002 and have the dummy do whatever you like.

What you need is:
FBA-RR
This is a version of FinalBurn Alpha that allows you to run LUA scripts.
http://code.google.com/p/fbarr/downloads/list
MacroLUA
http://code.google.com/p/macrolua/downloads/list

Put the macrolua script files in the FBA-RR folder, and make a new folder called 'macro'. In this file make a text file, and rename it to "trainingmode.txt".

Now open "macro-options.lua" and enter "traningmode.txt" after the entry that says playbackfile =.

Once you have that, you'll have to boot up FBA-RR and run kof2002.
Set the lua hotkey 1 to whatever button you want to trigger your recorded moves with. For me it's the button ;. You find the lua hotkey 1 bind in FBA-RR under Input > Configure Hotkeys. Obviously you only need to do this once.

Go to trainingmode, and set the dummy Action to: Human.

Then go to Game > New Lua Script Window

A new window pops up, press browse and select "macro.lua" and run it.

Now it's time to program the dummy!

You'll have to write a script, but the syntax is easy don't worry.

All moves are written within triangular brackets and it's ended by a "!" sign.

example: < whatever-moves-you-like !>

By default it will input the moves as player 1. To switch to player 2, you'll have to place a slash.
< whatever-moves-you-like-inputted-by-player-1 / whatever-moves-you-like-inputted-by-player-2 !>

Since you want the dummy to do something and not your own character, you should only input moves after the slash.

Now for the controls:

u = up, d = down, l = left, r = right, and logical combinations like dl = down-left follow.
1 = A 2 = B 3 = C 4 = D
the "." sign advances a frame.
Since your dummy is on the right side of the screen a hadouken motion will look as follows:

< /d.dl.l.3!>

w[number] will make the computer wait for the specified number of frames. If you don't want the dummy to immediately do the move the moment you press the button to run the script (the lua hotkey 1 button), you should place some wait frames before the move you want the dummy to make.

< /w40,d.dl.l.3!>  (note: comma's can be inserted anywhere you like they have no function but make the script easier to read)

Last but not least there's the sign for holding and releasing buttons/reaction, which you can use to make the dummy block as soon as possible, that way you can check if a move is punishable.

Holding a button is done with _[button]  releasing a buttong is done with ^[button].

Back to our hadouken example:

< /w40,d.dl.l.3,_d_r,w300!>

After waiting for 40 frames, the dummy will execute a hadouken motion, and then block downback for 300 frames. If you can hit him after the move, it means it's punishable. Be careful that he should be blocking HIGH (so only _r) if you try to punish it with an overhead move (like a jump-in, which is for example possible after a blocked kusanagi hcb+K).

If you want the dummy to block high and not walk back all the time after a move, go into the trainingmode menu and set the Guard to "on", for some reason holding back will then trigger blocking rather than walking back.

Now time for other applications of a programmable dummy 'random' block, so you can practice hitconfirming.

If you quickly alternate between down and downright every frame, you'll be unable to tell whether the opponent is blocking low or not (IF! you have Guard on 'off' otherwise he'll make a funny bobby block motion), this is perfect for practicing hitconfirms.

This is the script I use for a crouching dummy:
< /(_d,w2,*,_d_r,w2,*)1000!>

the brackets+number are the command that shows how often it mus repeat the command between brackets, in this case a 1000 times, you can put it to 100000 if you like or even higher, though LUA seems to have some trouble processing such high repetitions.

For a standing dummy, you're going to have to put Guard "on"  and the dummy will inevitably make a wobbly motion, but nothing that could really give away that the dummy is guarding or not

Use this script:
< /(_r,w14,^r,w20)500!>

Although according to the script the dummy wouldn't block equal parts high and not blocking, this feels more 50-50 to me. I'm not completely sure what is causing it. There seems to be some time in the recovery of blocking where you automatically block the next move. (anyone have specifics on this?)

Well I hope this gave you guys some insight to get your very own ghetto trainingmode! This works with every other game for FBA, for Capcom games the buttons go from 1 to 6.

Obviously this scripting tool can also be used for making kickass combo videos. And that's what it was meant for, Maj on Sonichurricane has written some great stuff on this subject using macrolua which might also be useful for finding new inventive ways of programming the training dummy.

http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=5000
especially: http://sonichurricane.com/?p=3828

I hope this is useful, any questions, suggestions, or new ways to use this tool are very welcome!

Cibernetico

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: October 20, 2010, 01:26:46 AM »
Not for nothing, but if 2k2UM has great netcode, I seriously doubt anyone who has access to a 360 is gonna care about using a PC emulator.

Kinda makes you wonder if the majority of the GGPO 2k2 players will move on to 2k2UM if it proves to be ale to have online games like GGPO.

krazykone123

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Re: The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2010, 05:37:40 AM »
*snip*

Thanks, I will definitely try this later this week