Poll

How many points total should each team consist?

5
6 (27.3%)
6
11 (50%)
7
2 (9.1%)
8
2 (9.1%)
other (please write below)
1 (4.5%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: SoCal KoF  (Read 186746 times)

Kane317

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #855 on: June 04, 2011, 02:24:06 AM »
Ok, so basically the summary of the issue is this:

1 - 100% combo is ok if using saving up 4-5 power meter and 100% drive if difficulty is low/medium.
2 - 100% combo is not ok if saving up 2 power meter and 60% drive if difficulty is high.

We both agree on 1, but not 2 for various reasons. I can leave the issue at rest if this is the case.

About the Orochi Shermie thing that would actually be very funny and wouldn't mind if it happened on a first or second character. On the 3rd character, I'd probably have to start praying. But seriously, that involves just activating move, where as a long difficult combo is the enjoyment of getting everything executed correctly and benefiting from large amounts of practice.

I agree on 1. and 2. as long as you supplement 2. with builds meter while doing the combo where 1. does not allow for any meter building.  I think that's a huge advantage, and although Takuma leaves you with more than say Ash or Kula after the combo, it's just plain wrong by principle alone if you ask me.  

A 5 stock HD is a hail-Mary-all-out-attack.  It leaves you with no meter for a reason, and it doesn't allow you to build for a reason, but the stun combo "breaks" this rule.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 02:27:04 AM by Kane317 »

Dark Geese

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #856 on: June 04, 2011, 02:25:50 AM »
One thing I've learned is it doesn't matter how difficult a combo is but if it's worth it a relatively usable in a match people will master it and abuse it. I remember the first time I saw Angeles infinite in Mexico and and people were saying yeah it's good but it's not practical cause its too difficult fast forward 2-3 years later every top player in Mexico was doing it, now days it's a minimum requirement if you wanna use Angel in Mexico. Just look at what happened to Hummer he went to Mexico with he's semi-decent Angel and not able to do the infinite at least 70% of the time and he got his ass handed to him.

In 13 acquiring 2 meters and 1 drive in round is not hard specially if his in 2nd position thus giving Ash a really good chance to do this ridiculous combo.  

Actually 2k2 is a different game where there were not many mid/easy 100% combos. KOF XIII has quite a bit of them if you have the meter for it. Angel doesn't not require any meter to do that infinite (if she messes up, she can just try again immediately). Ash does require some meter, so he can't just do it anytime but but with lesser requirements than other 100%s in XIII. At most you'll only see Ash do it once per match. Since there are plenty of 100% combos in XIII, see what I wrote in the above post. Doing 100% damage in a combo itself is not ridiculous, it's whether or not you agree on #2.

But what Oscar is talking about is the level of execution in Mexico is higher, it's custom standard to be able to do these comboes like he is saying. Dropping comboes in Mexico=DEATH. If you get the chance to land a death combo, you better land it, or you basically lose. That's what Oscar is saying, so dropping comboes against higher level execution players like in Mexico only means you lose.

So basically he and I are saying you guys need to raise your standards for execution if you wish to compete on an international level in the future (once everyone gains access to the console version etc).

I would say you have to be able to do a combo probably 85%-90% of the time in Mexico regardless of the level of difficulty to be able to compete in Mexico.

For example, Duo Lon's in Mexico in KOFXI high level execution is also standard, you cannot be dropping your comboes at all, or it means certain death. You simply won't get many chances to land the comboes so you cannot drop them because they all know how to land them with a 85-90% accuracy rate.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 02:33:38 AM by Dark Geese »

Kane317

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #857 on: June 04, 2011, 02:30:00 AM »
So basically you guys need to raise your standards for execution if you wish to compete on an international level in the future.

I would say you have to be able to do a combo probably 85%-90% in Mexico regardless of the level of difficulty to be able to compete in Mexico.

And Mexico needs to move on from older games to compete on an International level =)

Dark Geese

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #858 on: June 04, 2011, 02:46:57 AM »
So basically you guys need to raise your standards for execution if you wish to compete on an international level in the future.

I would say you have to be able to do a combo probably 85%-90% in Mexico regardless of the level of difficulty to be able to compete in Mexico.

And Mexico needs to move on from older games to compete on an International level =)

But the thing is they are-

They already play:
98UM
2002 UM
KOFXI

and 13 is catching like wildfire down South and it is in high demand for Northern Mexico as I get asked about it all the time.

So it is a matter of time before you see people in Mexico doing these comboes you guys say with little to no difficulty...

You can take my word on that.

Also Mexico vs. Peru is of high importance because it will be the Retiring Grounds for KOF 2002 in Mexico. (All that will be left will be taking Kula and a few to Japan/Taiwan etc)

Kane317

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #859 on: June 04, 2011, 03:11:30 AM »
So basically you guys need to raise your standards for execution if you wish to compete on an international level in the future.

I would say you have to be able to do a combo probably 85%-90% in Mexico regardless of the level of difficulty to be able to compete in Mexico.

And Mexico needs to move on from older games to compete on an International level =)

But the thing is they are-

They already play:
98UM
2002 UM
KOFXI

and 13 is catching like wildfire down South and it is in high demand for Northern Mexico as I get asked about it all the time.

So it is a matter of time before you see people in Mexico doing these comboes you guys say with little to no difficulty...

You can take my word on that.

Also Mexico vs. Peru is of high importance because it will be the Retiring Grounds for KOF 2002 in Mexico. (All that will be left will be taking Kula and a few to Japan/Taiwan etc)

I don't doubt it for one second that Mexico will catch up, but till then it's catch up is what they're playing.  

Japan has the highest concentration of high level XIII players, the current iteration; so we need to all play catch up with them.

In all fairness, you don't see me going on and on about ppl need to catch up to Chinese player '98 players either, right?

Dark Geese

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #860 on: June 04, 2011, 03:13:40 AM »
So basically you guys need to raise your standards for execution if you wish to compete on an international level in the future.

I would say you have to be able to do a combo probably 85%-90% in Mexico regardless of the level of difficulty to be able to compete in Mexico.

And Mexico needs to move on from older games to compete on an International level =)

But the thing is they are-

They already play:
98UM
2002 UM
KOFXI

and 13 is catching like wildfire down South and it is in high demand for Northern Mexico as I get asked about it all the time.

So it is a matter of time before you see people in Mexico doing these comboes you guys say with little to no difficulty...

You can take my word on that.

Also Mexico vs. Peru is of high importance because it will be the Retiring Grounds for KOF 2002 in Mexico. (All that will be left will be taking Kula and a few to Japan/Taiwan etc)

I don't doubt it for one second that Mexico will catch up, but till then it's catch up is what they're playing.  

Japan has the highest concentration of high level XIII players, the current iteration; so we need to all play catch up with them.

In all fairness, you don't see me going on and on about ppl need to catch up to Chinese player '98 players either, right?

That is true. I find it fascinating the highest level of concentration of different games can be found all over the world, so you will see me in China soon just to improve my 98 game..

I say there is no one area people need to "catch up" to, because there is skill all over the world.

THE ANSWER

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #861 on: June 04, 2011, 03:24:23 AM »
Wait a minute now that I see DG post I can see what the dilema is here. My standards for the difficulty of combos is higher than Duc's and that's where we are clashing. Yuhang, DG and my self have seen first hand what the level of execution is outside of the US and I think that's why execution is not even a factor in this.

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Dark Geese

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #862 on: June 04, 2011, 03:32:16 AM »
Wait a minute now that I see DG post I can see what the dilema is here. My standards for the difficulty of combos is higher than Duc's and that's where we are clashing. Yuhang, DG and my self have seen first hand what the level of execution is outside of the US and I think that's why execution is not even a factor in this.



This is precisely the point. Those that have travelled outside of the USA to KOF strongpoints have seen that standards for the difficulty of comboes in other parts of the world is much much higher than what it is here in the USA.

As we can attest to, there are many people of Mr. KOF's level of play all over the world.

There are about 40-50 of them in Mexico alone, and I am sure there are a similar amount in China, Japan and other KOF hotspots such as Peru, Brazil, etc.

So if you have that many people of Mr. KOF's skill and execution, obviously then the level of execution has to go up exponentially, thus meaning anything less than 85-90% perfection simply will not suffice.

Mr.KOF

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #863 on: June 04, 2011, 03:50:44 AM »
Wait a minute now that I see DG post I can see what the dilema is here. My standards for the difficulty of combos is higher than Duc's and that's where we are clashing. Yuhang, DG and my self have seen first hand what the level of execution is outside of the US and I think that's why execution is not even a factor in this.



This is precisely the point. Those that have travelled outside of the USA to KOF strongpoints have seen that standards for the difficulty of comboes in other parts of the world is much much higher than what it is here in the USA.

There are about 40-50 of them in Mexico alone, and I am sure there are a similar amount in China, Japan and other KOF hotspots such as Peru, Brazil, etc.

So if you have that many people of Mr. KOF's skill and execution, obviously then the level of execution has to go up exponentially, thus meaning anything less than 85-90% perfection simply will not suffice.

The U.S. may not have many Mr.KOF's. But in the End only one person is needed to represent a country. Execution has nothing to do with a country's play level. It just takes talent and practice. So please, let's stop talking about Mexico or "Level"  because last time i checked i haven't seen a Spanish person win SBO for KOF. Technically we're in the same boat  ;) I don't know if Hummer, Bata,No.17 really did lose to great players or to other factors. I'm just saying my experience in 2k9 at NDP wasn't so pleasant as well. Only the people that were there know what i'm talking about, and i'm talking about atmosphere and conditions. I mean i think it's hard to get a Hispanic person's respect in the KOF world.

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Dark Geese

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #864 on: June 04, 2011, 04:08:38 AM »
But John as you know there is a reason why you haven't seen a Spanish (or more Politically correct would be Latin American, Hispanic, or South American, Spanish would be Spaniard) person win SBO for KOF-

Money.

Talent is not the issue, it is lack of money. It costs $3,000 for an SBO Qualifier...that is close to 35,000 pesos basically, no way a person in Mexico will have that.

Thus the premise of my World KOF Cup, the only true way to show people that there is more to fighting games than Asia...

and I think The KOF Cup 2011 has clearly shown that you cannot determine what is going to happen until things actually happen in person.

Those that even praised Hummer on GGPO are no longer to be found as I have done my research, so the message is getting across, there is talent all over the world, it just takes MONEY (and a lot of it) to unite these people under one roof..which is what I am trying to do so that people can open their eyes and stop focusing on the glitz, glamour and other stuff and start seeing the skill level they have been missing in other countries.

Mexico has at least shown they can hang with the tops in Japan in KOF 2002, and that is one small step to my big puzzle to showing the world that being "Asia centric" does not apply to a true World Championship.

Hummer himself told me that SBO is only limited to Asia, Europe, and North America, when truth of the matter is Latin America doesnt get an invite even to SBO.

Thus again creating this Asia-centric mentality that Asia=greater than the others in all things fighting games when that is quite an overgeneralization.

There are people like Kula, Zeus and others that may live in poorer conditions, but should not be denied access to competition based off where they live.

I am learning the same even in Peru and other countries, very high level players but may not live in the best conditions.

That is the way it is...and people in the USA due to cultural values have been limited to only the glitz, glamour, presentation of EVO, SBO, Duelling the KOF etc, and have forgotten that it is all about SKILL LEVEL...

« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 05:00:17 AM by Dark Geese »

MUSOLINI

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #865 on: June 04, 2011, 05:39:36 AM »
There are people like Kula, Zeus and others that may live in poorer conditions, but should not be denied access to competition based off where they live.

and this is the exact reason why i dont get a lot of american players or posters in general (not directed at DC). some people talk about the sf2 hey days and how tomo or some other player/s was unbeatable or the best in the world. i grew up on those games and i find it hard to believe that in a time where there where no vids or worldwide tournaments from ALL OVER the world to just say, this dude was the best. ive never understood the arrogance of some of the people that say bs like that. ive seen these guys play, theyre just great players. and theres lots of great players in the world, and lots people nobody may ever even heard about. im baffled by statements like this because this was in a time where there where sf/snk cabs everywhere. how in the fuck anybody had the balls to say something like that, i still dont get. wtf where these people smoking, i want some of it.

not to go oftopic further, just wanted to point something this basic out. not hating, just saying.
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Rex Dart

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #866 on: June 04, 2011, 08:46:37 AM »
I propose an international KOF tournament where each participating country is represented by 3 players. We just need to find a black market weapons dealer to sponsor it . . .

The debate about Takuma's and Ash's stun combos is pretty interesting. Shame on you guys for hogging all the good debates to the SoCal thread. :P

Dark Geese

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #867 on: June 04, 2011, 01:52:33 PM »
There are people like Kula, Zeus and others that may live in poorer conditions, but should not be denied access to competition based off where they live.

and this is the exact reason why i dont get a lot of american players or posters in general (not directed at DC). some people talk about the sf2 hey days and how tomo or some other player/s was unbeatable or the best in the world. i grew up on those games and i find it hard to believe that in a time where there where no vids or worldwide tournaments from ALL OVER the world to just say, this dude was the best. ive never understood the arrogance of some of the people that say bs like that. ive seen these guys play, theyre just great players. and theres lots of great players in the world, and lots people nobody may ever even heard about. im baffled by statements like this because this was in a time where there where sf/snk cabs everywhere. how in the fuck anybody had the balls to say something like that, i still dont get. wtf where these people smoking, i want some of it.

not to go oftopic further, just wanted to point something this basic out. not hating, just saying.

I'm stating it on a worldwide scale, there are people like Kula, Zeus, and plenty others known and unknown that need to play, but there are many things preventing them from playing.

So I understand about the Tomo thing, how do people know he was "The Best in the World"?


I'm no SF expert, but in KOF, as I've said, there are people of high level skill all over the world. SF is like basketball, KOF is like soccer, thus there are more high level players in KOF around the world than SF.

The main reason I level up so fast is because I get to play very high level opponents all the time that may be known or unknown.


Rex Dart- I am trying to do this, there is simply too much skill in the world for us to ever focus just on one particular area, and the top 3 players from every country would probably be something like the World KOF Cup Finals or SemiFinals, I have it broken up how it's going to work there has to be a 2 year Qualifier process.

Geting someone to sponsor it?

That will be LDA Inc, but it will take time because there are many things like passports, visas, and a bunch of other things that make this a hassle to setup.

But it needs to be done, it started with Mexico vs. Japan series in 2002 that has gained international recognition with Bata, Danke, Hummer, has caused more international players to want to travel to Mexico to play, and now I am starting a new chapter with Mexico vs. Peru.

Slowly but surely I am building a world championship...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 03:50:53 PM by Dark Geese »

metaphysics

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #868 on: June 04, 2011, 06:07:30 PM »

The debate about Takuma's and Ash's stun combos is pretty interesting. Shame on you guys for hogging all the good debates to the SoCal thread. :P
it's that shit got personal lol
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l2slythe

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Re: SoCal KoF
« Reply #869 on: June 04, 2011, 06:50:16 PM »

The debate about Takuma's and Ash's stun combos is pretty interesting. Shame on you guys for hogging all the good debates to the SoCal thread. :P
it's that shit got personal lol

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