Topic: Shiranui Whirlwind - The Andy Bogard thread

[AM2]

Gameplay Overview
Andy is one of the more straightforward yet hard to play as in RB2.



Pros
 - His Zaneiken has decent damage and can be used for pressure
 - combos with good damage that aren’t long
 
Cons
Zaneiken used for pressure is a bad idea
can be hard to get a hit in, especially against those with better normals.

Keep in mind this game is still considered very balanced, this is meant to give Andy players something to start off with in terms of discussing strategy when playing this character.

Normals


IN PROGRESS

Throw

over-shoulder throw – 4/6 C close to opponent

Command Moves
Kicking Onslaught - f + B
A forward-moving cartwheel. Can be used for pressure, probably not good for much else, unfourtunately not an overhead.
Raising Rep - df + A
A rising palm attack. Andy also has this in KOF2002UM, and commonly used in combos.

Special Moves

Hishoken – 214A
Geki-Hishoken – 214C
Shoryudan – 623C
Kuuhadan – 41236B
Zaneiken - 16A or C

Fake-out Moves
Hishoken - d + AC
Zaneiken - f + AC
Cho Reppa Dan - d + BC



Desperation Moves
 Cho Reppa Dan - qcb, db, f + BC

Super Desperation Move
Manly Mashing Blast - qcb, db, f + C

Chain Attacks

Punch Starters
A -> B ->C – Pushes opponent back
A -> 2B -> C – knockdown on last hit, which is a sweep (what 2C is)

Kick Starters
standing B -> standing B
standing B -> crouching B
Strong Starters
None (?)

Combos
Close standing C -> 214C
                           | 16A/C or 41236B
3A -> 623C
3A -> 16A/C
5A -> 5C -> 214A/C
                  | 41236B


References
 The Real Bout 2 wiki on DreamCancel

I finally got around to doing this, sorry. Discussion and expansion on playing as Andy in RB2 (hopefully) will be in here.

[MUSOLINI]

andy has one of the best, if not the best fb in the whole game. his   chain is great. he can combo into a over head (that must hit as late as possible if they block). he can obscene damage in the corner, with or without supers, especially if you use his feint cancel combos. his only real problem is that most of his normals dont reach that far, but you know what? hes got a fb as fast as a snake fist that can easily be used for poking and should be used for that purpose. just outside of your normals range you can easily counter your opponents attacks with his fb.

andys worst problem is normal combos that dont start off very close, he does crappy damage wirth them, same as joes prblem basically. this applies for all the characters, but the difference is that joe and andy have to be in your face for their best combos. while most other characters also have combos that dont do much damage from far, they can still hit their big damage ones from a little more far than being in your face. andy and joe cant, but its all good.

2 great moves for each of these seemingly weaker characters for poking? joe has the best dashing   in the game. andy on the other hand, has the best   attck in the game. the range of it is deceptively far and you can combo it to hard zaneiken or ppower for good damage, make tha huge damage for a quick poke punish.

his jump   is great as an unblockable when distanced right.

you forgot to mention some of his most important chains:

 

 

  (in the corner you ca use this combo, feint and combo with the launcher combo into     ). you cont do the second   of the first chain to do this though.

another great chain that hits far and combos into hard zaneiken is   chain, whatch out for crouchers, cause it might miss them.

something else thats obvious, you should always end you combos ending in hard zaneiken into the zaneiken finisher. since using zaneiken means you doing his lesser damage combos since your further away, get every extra but of damage you can, simple by fin ishing the hard zaneiken. never finish hard zaneiken against people that block, but that should be obvious as well.

[AM2]

andy has one of the best, if not the best fb in the whole game. his   chain is great. he can combo into a over head (that must hit as late as possible if they block). he can obscene damage in the corner, with or without supers, especially if you use his feint cancel combos. his only real problem is that most of his normals dont reach that far, but you know what? hes got a fb as fast as a snake fist that can easily be used for poking and should be used for that purpose. just outside of your normals range you can easily counter your opponents attacks with his fb.

andys worst problem is normal combos that dont start off very close, he does crappy damage wirth them, same as joes prblem basically. this applies for all the characters, but the difference is that joe and andy have to be in your face for their best combos. while most other characters also have combos that dont do much damage from far, they can still hit their big damage ones from a little more far than being in your face. andy and joe cant, but its all good.

2 great moves for each of these seemingly weaker characters for poking? joe has the best dashing   in the game. andy on the other hand, has the best   attck in the game. the range of it is deceptively far and you can combo it to hard zaneiken or ppower for good damage, make tha huge damage for a quick poke punish.

his jump   is great as an unblockable when distanced right.

you forgot to mention some of his most important chains:

 

 

  (in the corner you ca use this combo, feint and combo with the launcher combo into     ). you cont do the second   of the first chain to do this though.

another great chain that hits far and combos into hard zaneiken is   chain, whatch out for crouchers, cause it might miss them.

something else thats obvious, you should always end you combos ending in hard zaneiken into the zaneiken finisher. since using zaneiken means you doing his lesser damage combos since your further away, get every extra but of damage you can, simple by fin ishing the hard zaneiken. never finish hard zaneiken against people that block, but that should be obvious as well.

Thanks for the corrections and additions. I agree that Andy doesn't have much reach. This makes him a character harder to play as than say Terry or Kim. I didn't know his  and  are used in chains.

[MUSOLINI]

those are basically his most important chains. you also know his ppower is a breakshot?

[Running Wild]

I think you're forgetting a move of Andy's, his jump QCB C, D I believe it is? Does that diving elbow, then goes into the background and comes back out with another one. Really good move, especially when used in conjunction with the mid-air turn and you can cancel into it off an aerial normal.

[MUSOLINI]

its really not that useful at high level imo.

[Running Wild]

I think it's one of Andy's best specials, great for laying down the offense.

[MUSOLINI]

its slow, easily bockable, doesnt do that much damage, cant follow up with anything. its best used sporadically. if thats how you write it. his best moves are his zeneiken, fb and dp, even his jouhadan. even his fb backward with  has better uses since it can be used for far reaching combos that dont knock down (or hardzaneiken with finisher for knockdown). its one of if not his worst move in this gamr actually. compare its usefulness against his other moves. i wish he had his ex andy from rbs airthrow instead of this airmove, or something similar to andy 97 air moves. its not as worthless as terrys powercharge or powerdunk are in rb2 though. so its not a genuine shit move, it just aint that good.

[Running Wild]

Well like I said, it works best when used in conjunction with a mid-air turn and canceled from an aerial, where it'll combo, and it's even better when tiger-knee'ed. I think it's a good move to harass the opponent with. It's also a hard move to punish, Andy is fairly safe after using it, even on block. It can be used to bait breakshots vs certain characters.

One odd property I've noticed with it though is it seems if you do it low enough to the ground, Andy will not do the 2nd part of the attack.  

[MUSOLINI]

yeah i agree it does have its uses, its just not something to base your game around.

[Running Wild]

Yeah, I wouldn't suggest basing your game around a single move (Unless your Geese, lol cr.C feint pursuit all day every day lolololol), but it gives Andy a nice utility.

Also I dunno if it's just me or is Andy's QCB+C punishable even on hit depending on distance?

[MUSOLINI]

you shouldnt use it up close with opponent cornered, otherwise its fine.

[steamwolf]

Its a great tool for keeping people out at mid to long range but yeah upclose its bad. I prefer to use it at long range to stop projectiles or just keep people from rushing in. But I don't use it as much as  +

[MUSOLINI]

Its a great tool for keeping people out at mid to long range but yeah upclose its bad. I prefer to use it at long range to stop projectiles or just keep people from rushing in. But I don't use it as much as  +

pretty much not using his best poke. thats like using yamazaki and not using his straoght snake. i suggest you try to incorperate it in your game. against pros usig the  version might get you killed.

[steamwolf]

Its a great tool for keeping people out at mid to long range but yeah upclose its bad. I prefer to use it at long range to stop projectiles or just keep people from rushing in. But I don't use it as much as   +

pretty much not using his best poke. thats like using yamazaki and not using his straoght snake. i suggest you try to incorperate it in your game. against pros usig the   version might get you killed.

Yeah here is the frame data for it

"qcb+C: 12f, -20 on block, -18 on hit"

-18 frames on hit? I'm sorry but corner or no, that's NEVER a good poke to make part of your game I don't care who you are. I'll stick to the much safer   version which has the following frames:

"qcb+A: 13f, -3 or better on block, -1 or better on hit" even on block here, you're still not too bad. And I'm pretty sure you can't combo in the   version nor can you get knock down with it so...overall, best to stick to other moves.