Author Topic: Precision practice with combos and movement  (Read 7852 times)

omegaryuji

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 03:55:06 PM »
When it comes to learning combos, for myself, I like to spend a lot of time in training mode first to comfortable with doing four combos (in a KOF or SF sort of game...many more for something like GG or AH3) for a character: (1) basic no-resource combo off of typical poke strings, (2) basic efficient metered damage off of typical poke strings, (3) best damage when I want to blow everything I have for a kill (could be the same as (2), especially in older games), and (4) punishment combo for things like baited reversals where I can freely use a high damage starter instead of poking.  Once I have those down to the point where I don't have to think about it while actually doing them, it frees up my mind during actual matches to focus on strategy, yomi, hit confirming, etc.  I don't have to think about doing the combos because, at that point, they're pretty much automatic once I see that I'm hitting or once I see that my opponent do something unsafe.  Once I get to the point where I'm confident in the rest of my play, then I revisit my combos and see if I can do anything to improve them (for instead, if I'm just starting out with Mature in 2002UM, my combo (2) might just be <optional jump-in>, cl.B, qcfx2+A/C...then later <optional jump-in>, cr.B, cr.A, cr.A, qcfx2+A/C...then later a basic BC combo, etc.)

I don't think anyone will argue over whether improving mind games, spacing, etc. is best done by going against other players, nor over whether it takes a lot of time and experience to become a skillful and complete player at any legitimate fighter unless you use XIII Raiden.  However, the topic of this thread is:
Does anybody have any techniques or pratice as far as being able to get the motions down perfectly and consistently? Any basic drills or whatnot that anybody performs to practice?
Getting execution down is something that most people probably aren't comfortable learning while under the stress of an actual match.  Learning to have a calm mind and hands so that you can keep near your practiced level of execution during a real match is critical, sure, but topic was about fundamental execution.  There's a lot less pressure on you trying to do a combo you've practiced and landed hundreds of times than to just see the notation on a forum and jump into trying it in a match.

This is especially true for games like Blazblue, where you frequently have to adjust your timing or omit/change/reorder attacks depending on the other character (at least for Hazama...not as sure about other characters, since Blazblue isn't as crazy overall in character-specifics as Guilty Gear is), the p1 rating of your opening hit, whether the opener was a normal or counter hit, height for air-to-air confirms, whether your opponent was standing or crouching for X-to-ground confirms, etc. (PS: For Phoenixazure: Don't let all of that intimidate you if you're just starting out.  Practice and improve with some basic reasonable combos [say, one no-meter, one with 50% meter, and one off of throws] first, then worry about going into more optimized stuff once you're solid with that :) )

Ideally, you should not be actively thinking about all of that during a match, because you should have spent the time to practice all of those scenarios in training mode against all of the cast so that you automatically know what you should do when you land a hit.  However, there's no point in doing all of that practice if you're not even confident that you can do basic inputs right, which is what Phoenixazure seemed to be asking for help with.
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 09:15:47 PM »
That was what I wanted to touch on and I agree with you, Omegaryuji. It's why I spend a great deal in training mode to improve my gameplay.

It does no help if you drop combos against someone and get punished for it. It's best to get the execution down before you put it into practice. Playing humans is much different than learning when to cancel or what to do if your move his blocked. These things don't require human interaction, but are better done with constant repetition.

Training mode for KoF XIII for example is very useful. You can set the dummy, for the first minute or so, to stand or crouch. Practice execution from midscreen, in the corner, paying attention to the rate it hits. I used to lack the ability to combo midscreen, but a lot of practice with timing has improved that ability.  From there, you can set the dummy to 1-hit guard. This will make it easier for you to see if you're linking it properly. For example, Terry's d.B, d.A, df.C can sometimes be blocked if you don't do it fast enough. If you tap the buttons too fast, it might not even register. It's just to check if you're linking properly. You finish off with practicing hit confirming. Using Terry again, I do his basic s.C, df.C, => into power wave or burning knuckle. If I do powerwave, I am safe on block. If I do burning knuckle and its unblocked, I get a free combo. This helps a lot with making you more reactive and thinking rather than following a string.

DJMirror949

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2011, 11:05:00 PM »
Alot of helpful tips


Thanks everyone

hitagi

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2011, 06:05:17 AM »
Agreeing with DJMirror949~, Maybe somebody can compile this into a "how to practice KOFXIII" post and pin it up? Because I'm sure it will help with new players similar to me, and especially since this is the Training Room! xD

I don't think I myself can do that because I'm not at a level where I've been using this advice for years yet~ >_<

Wu Fei

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2011, 07:41:22 AM »
God knows this is my main issues. Getting comfortable with constant short hops and all the commands.

I think I might just scrap combos altogether and just get the basics down so good that combos are only damage boosters. Cause despite doing relatively well in MVC, SF, and BB, this KOF is on another level when it comes to execution.

darkTown2

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2011, 04:41:22 AM »
God knows this is my main issues. Getting comfortable with constant short hops and all the commands.

I think I might just scrap combos altogether and just get the basics down so good that combos are only damage boosters. Cause despite doing relatively well in MVC, SF, and BB, this KOF is on another level when it comes to execution.

why would you scrap combos?

unless you mean not trying them until you're confident

and another thing although kof 13 is harder when it comes to timing and motions.the links seem easier to me then sf, i mean there are one frame links ( that i have learned to consistently do ) in SF that are bnbs for certain characters that's harder than what i've done in kof ( in terms of links only) up till now.
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Mr Bakaboy

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2011, 01:08:43 PM »
^ Capcom tends to have a slower frame link then KOF. It's harder to get yourself to go slower to get the combos going when you are used to the high speed combo linking KOF provides. It took me forever to get used to MvC3 & that's supposed to be fast.

Though if Capcom gamers come over to the KOF side, it might drive them nuts to have to move so fast. Not saying this is the case, but it's food for thought.
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darkTown2

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2011, 04:22:40 PM »
^ Capcom tends to have a slower frame link then KOF. It's harder to get yourself to go slower to get the combos going when you are used to the high speed combo linking KOF provides. It took me forever to get used to MvC3 & that's supposed to be fast.

Though if Capcom gamers come over to the KOF side, it might drive them nuts to have to move so fast. Not saying this is the case, but it's food for thought.

two words Super Turbo ( HD remix counts too )

it's faster than kof 13 and if you try things like fei longs combo off of a chicken wing it is much harder and faster.
what are you talking about slower frame link? one frame some-where is one frame anywhere you still have to press a button in one frame. ( bnb's are pretty fast ) in terms of execution though i still think kof is superior just not with links.

does kof even have an equivalent to one frame links?
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Mr Bakaboy

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2011, 04:55:06 PM »
Should have said the new Capcom games (no HD remix is just a slightly retooled older game anything pre 2001 didn't exactly have noobs in mind). The new Capcom motto is making it easier to work with. Old school Capcom was not the case. I guess that's the reason why I prefer the older Capcom games (though I do play the new ones).

1 frame? *thinks* If it were I doubt it would be KOF. Maybe a tighter control SNK fighter. I'd guess Samurai Shodown 2 or Fatal Fury special might have something like that.
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darkTown2

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2011, 05:07:20 PM »
my point still stands though even if sf4 is a slower game per-say one frame is always one frame and if you play a character with one frame bnb's they are harder than any links i've done in kof.

i'm not trying to say sf4 is better in any way when i picked up the game expecting it to be almost as good as my fav game and its predecessor i was very displeased. what i was trying to say is that people were saying the links were more difficult and that they couldn't mash to get a link like in sf4 to connect, although you can't do that in sf4 either and that if they played the game at a decent level they would know that.
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2011, 10:13:08 PM »
There are some. I think Takuma has a combo where you have to do low punch into db, f+D which is hard to do because a lot of people drop the link.

Sikemopko

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2011, 01:34:02 AM »
Takuma's j.c, s.c, f.b qcf+d ->c.a b~f. bd feels like a one frame link.
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Mr Bakaboy

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2011, 04:09:25 AM »
my point still stands though even if sf4 is a slower game per-say one frame is always one frame and if you play a character with one frame bnb's they are harder than any links i've done in kof.

i'm not trying to say sf4 is better in any way when i picked up the game expecting it to be almost as good as my fav game and its predecessor i was very displeased. what i was trying to say is that people were saying the links were more difficult and that they couldn't mash to get a link like in sf4 to connect, although you can't do that in sf4 either and that if they played the game at a decent level they would know that.

I still think the problem lies in the speed of it, but your point is true. Mashing doesn't get you anywhere in high level play, no matter what game you are playing. It just takes time to learn a system no matter what you are familiar to.
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omegaryuji

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2011, 02:14:53 PM »
I think I might just scrap combos altogether and just get the basics down so good that combos are only damage boosters. Cause despite doing relatively well in MVC, SF, and BB, this KOF is on another level when it comes to execution.
Assuming you're not talking about MvC2, SF2, or SFA, those games all have more generous input reading than KOF (although XIII's is pretty loose).

does kof even have an equivalent to one frame links?
Yes.  Off the top of my head, I think Mary's ...f+A, (b)~f+B in 98, Iori's cl.B, cl.C... in 2002 (felt easier in 98 but not completely sure if so), and Jhun's (A)D guardbreak, cl.C... in 2002UM are 1-frame timings.
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Blue!

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Re: Precision practice with combos and movement
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2011, 07:38:32 PM »
I've never been any good at fighting games, but what's been really helping me lately with everything (SF, Marvel and now this) is to slow down my inputs.. like reeeeeeeeally slow, with no chance of the combo or move even working properly.  It helps me get proper muscle memory for the exact inputs, and then I gradually increase speed while maintaining input accuracy (I have input display on all the time when practicing)

For me, that method avoids any sort of mashing or tense feeling or improper inputs when doing anything.  Speed is something that you can easily practice and get better at, but if you're starting off with sloppy inputs for the sake of immediate speed, it can be more difficult to correct later on.