Author Topic: Mai Shiranui (Console)  (Read 88433 times)

nilcam

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Mai Shiranui (Console)
« on: December 06, 2011, 06:01:17 AM »


Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

* = EX version possible

Throws
Fuusha Kuzushi - ;bk / ;fd+ ;c / ;d

Command Normals
Wall Jump - ;uf in all near wall (1P side),  ;ub on 2P side

Ukihane - Air ;dn + ;b

Yume Sakura (Air Throw) - ;fd / ;dn / ;bk + ;c / ;d (close in air)

Special Moves
Kachosen - ;qcf + ;a / ;c *

Ryuenbu - ;qcb + ;a / ;c *

Hisstatsu Shinobi Baichi - ;hcf + ;b / ;d *

Musasabi No Mai - (charge) ;dn ;up + ;a / ;c

Musasabi No Mai (air variant) - ;qcb + ;a / ;c (in air) *

Desperation Moves
Chou Hisstatsu Shinobi Baichi - ;qcb ;hcf + ;b / ;d (ground or air) *

Neomax
Shiranui Ryuu Kunoichi no Mai - ;qcf ;hcb + ;a ;c (ground or air)

Mai's Wiki entry.

Console changes:
- Kaschousen comes out faster, also has quicker recovery
* Ukibane (down + B in air) has different trajectory than Arcade, recovery time has been changed
* Musasabi(from ground) can be canceled to Floating attack
* WK>FK is a chain combo. Can be used to connect into HD mode, and also gives Mai more damage on pokes
* EX air Shinobibachi added in game. Invincible until hit detection comes out.
- Crouching FP has more cancelable frames
- Weak Ryuenbu has more vertical hitbox
* Neomax comes out faster and freezes time when it reaches the edge of screen

Producer Yamamoto says: We’ve balanced her as a female ninja by giving her attacks that can make her fight more tricky from the air. Using Ukibane to trick the opponent and doing an attack string, or hit confirming from her crouching fierce punch have become effective tactics. Her Neomax has also been buffed.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:26:21 PM by nilcam »

nilcam

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« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 09:03:36 PM by Great_Dark_Hero »

nilcam

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 06:01:38 AM »
Mai is a character that requires a large degree of discipline. Chronologically speaking, Mai is a character that is considered to be rather unorthodox to KOFXIII. She was never meant to be a "high damaging" character. In this category, Mai is put into the same category as the likes of King or Leona for example. Meter less damage output is considered low but with meter, the damage output is great. Until Mai generates the meter for such damage, the player needs to play "solid" - they need to take advantage of her mobility, air control and her normal moves. Kachousen (qcf+P) should be used in moderation to zone the opponent out and to start an offense. Mai's special moves and her tools in general become safe if they are Mai's mobility plays a pivotal role in her game play: Fast walk speed, fast run speed and her high (yet not so floaty) jumps. She also has a wall kick! Players need to USE this to their advantage and stay ON the move! She IS a ninja (well... specifically a Kunoichi). So it would only be natural! The players need to make active use of d~charge~u+P - that motion causes Mai to move very quickly across the scene.
For the Ryuenbu (qcb+P), all versions of this move are safe on block, but is generally a great idea to put more emphasis on A version Ryuenbu because of it's short recovery. Because, if Mai continues to finish her block strings and/or combos with the C version then she is not going to get anything off of it, even if she does hit the opponent successfully. The A version of Ryuenbu keeps Mai on the move. The EX qcb+P Ryuenbu is also plus frames on block and can be used for conducting very damaging juggle combos, especially in the corner.
Mai's EX moves in general are safe on block. EX air qcb+P is 0 frames on block.
You can use Ukihane (j2B) to change the trajectory of Mai's jumps. She also cancel into Ukihane from her Musasabi to play tricks on the opponent make them do something unsafe. Another thing is that Mai can use wall jump to get out of corner pressure easily.
Now in terms of fundamentals - close st.A, st.C, j.A, j.CD, and air throw are Mai's anti-airs - j.A and j.CD sticking out the most. (And, no. Mai does not have a dragon punch... and for obvious reasons, she does not need one either - if Mai had a DP in this particular KOFXIII, she'd be broken. It would be like trying to hand King a air fire ball on her backdash). Mai's jumping A has many uses. Use jumping A (preferably early) to anti-air opponents from the mid range (to keep them from super jumping), screwing with the opponents jump ins altogether, and for corner pressure. When the opponent is cornered, maintain a safe distance and lock the opponent down with neutral hop jumping A, CD attacks (whiff cancel into qcb+A or qcf+A, hop j2B (in front of the opponent because you want to frame trap the opponent) - bully the opponent with cr.B and st.A as you slowly advance towards the cornered the opponent (Mai's walk speed is ridiculous). After doing a jump in, go for throws every now and then (there is NO crouch tech). Do NOT forget about Mai's ground CD attack. The air version is also reliable. Mai's ground CD is very fast and can put stop to low hit confirms. A good block string to use against cornered opponents are things like: j.C, st.C, qcb+A, cr.C, qcb+C. This can be used in combos and qcb+A has the shortest recovery. When trying to start an offense don't bother trying to play Mai as if she was Kyo or Mr. Karate. Because, she is not them. You need to be thinking in terms of how a King player would - good buttons, awesome meter options, great mobility/movement and high HD combo damage. That is what Mai is meant for, while she is a rather unorthodox character like Chin is but in a different way. Mai needs to make the opponent go "What is this woman doing...?" Mai should also be able scare the opponent into making mistakes - hence, Mai's fast walk speed, run speed (Mai has the fastest run speed which can even be used for crossing under stuff while the opponent is in mid air), annoying normals, annoying air control, etc... 
If you are a new Mai player: DO NOT try qcf+A into hcf+K set up. New players are fond of this for some reason even though it is not safe. If you want to follow up after qcf+A... go for another qcf+A (if you're the full range), run forward-stop-run forward-stop... (stagger your offense and rush down. Mai is a fast character, so please take advantage of this. Baiting your out unsafe move or making the opponent whiff something is part of Mai's MO). After qcf+A you can also go for air throw or neutral jump A (or CD) if the opponent tries super jumping in on you. Or, at the mid range, you can back dash and go for other options after the back dash, like ground Musasabi or a poke. Against smarter opponents, you need to be more creative with Mai's options.

The only time the Mai player should EVER be worried about damage is if the opponent is cornered and if she has at least a bar and a drive:
* With 1 bar and 1 drive, Mai can get over 522 / 553 damage easily in a practical situation.
[Corner] s.C, Ex qcb P, qcb C, qcb C [1hit], [DC] qcf+A, qcb C, qcb C, Air Throw = 522 dmg
[Corner] st.C, EX qcb P, qcb+C, qcb+C, qcb+C [DC] qcf+A, qcb+C, qcb+C, Air Throw = 553 dmg

* Mai gets more than 800 damage in HD combos while spending only two bars.
[corner] Far st.D [HD] (hold back) Far st.D, hcf+D [2 hits] [HDC] air.qcb+C, hcf+D [HDC] qcb+C, hcf+B [HDC] qcf+A, qcb+C, qcb+C, qcb+C [HDC] qcf+A > Neo Max = [805]

On the defensive, especially if you are getting stuck in the corner, use back dashes, or back dashes into wall jumps. You can also neutral jump and then go for wall jumps and/or a air qcb+P to get out of the corner safely. Ground Musasabi (d~charge~u+P) is also a good option because Mai can just say "Forget this" and jump straight from the corner all the way to the other side. Avoid getting cornered (a general rule in KOF and in most 2D fighting games) and do NOT let Mai suffer an untechable knockdown. If she does then get ready to block, roll, GC roll, or GC blow back. Pay attention to what is happening and what the opponent is doing. A lot of things being said here would be considered common sense at this point. Remember that movement is very important, which is one of the things that Mai excels at.
The fact of the matter is, Mai is a ninja. So the player needs to be cunning. Tricky. Annoying. Aggravating. The player needs to focus a little on solid play. Now even though this is KOF, always remember to adjust to your opponents play style... put a little dynamics in your game play so that you don't develop any recurring bad habit. Mai encourages the player to stay solid. One thing to note is that Mai is good at dealing with impatient or overly aggressively players, that which you can thank her mobility options for.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 12:30:49 PM by Great_Dark_Hero »

Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2011, 10:04:09 PM »
Re: Mastaroth's post in the old thread:

Quote
Also besides rolling passed the opponent, you can even Throw the opponent in the corner then time a jump-in and j.B either cross-up or not depending on when you jumped... This is very hard to tell and will beat wake up 1 frame throw attempts... Also if they try to roll and get away then you'll be able to recover, run up and throw them back into the corner...

Could you be a bit more specific about the timing? Like how long do you have to wait after the throw to get a crossup vs. not get a crossup? Full jump or low jump?

Also, how do you consistently set up a crossup with her midscreen? I keep swearing I've spaced for a crossup, but I always come up short (or too far forward).

And to answer milesw's question:

Quote
Sorry what do you mean by J 1 D?

Means to hold down-back (1 in numpad notation) while doing j. D.

This blocking is the key to any safe-jump setup. When timed properly, this means that you will land in time from your jump attack to block slow-startup (blockable) reversals if the opponent does one on wakeup. If the opponent doesn't reversal on wakeup, they either get hit by or have to block your j. D, and you can combo or pressure from there.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 10:12:31 PM by Ben Reed »

mightfo

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 10:35:46 AM »
so, this may have been discussed before but i couldnt find it(sorry if i am blind)

You know mai's supposed non-corner HD combo that goes like hcf D(2hit) [HDC] qcb C(1hit) [HDC] hcf D and how there's that whole problem of overlapping with her super input?

Well, I think I figured out a way to get around the super input issue, though my execution is ass and I cant do it consistently. Basically you either:

A)Input QCB immediately after you hit D for HCF D, but dont hit C until you want the ryuenbu. The buffer will keep it, but the qcb will have been done long enough ago or something that you won't get super.
B)Do something like this:HCF D then immediately after hitting D start doing a half circle back "slightly slowly". Back and forth, back and forth. i feel like doing this and not letting the stick go to neutral makes this much easier. you may prefer method A and method A makes more sense but I have more success with B.

It seems to me that the key to both of these is to start doing the next motion IMMEDIATELY after hitting D, and not hitting C too early.

If you have a better way of doing this or explaining how to do it, please say so~
If you live around Dallas and play KOF, AH3, BB, GG, or MB, PM me~

Sephiroth73003

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 06:54:38 PM »
Picked mai up I'm pretty new to the game, but long time SF player.

Stuff I've found out.

1. After a normal throw, take a step forward fj.  ;c crosses up. You can make this really ambiguous. fj.  ;d also works but spacing is more strict and  ;b can't be combo'd from at any height it can realistically be considered ambiguous.

2. After an air throw or normal throw, throw a light fireball meaty and hyper hop in. They can't interrupt except maybe with with an uppercut, if the fireball hits you can actually combo from it.

3. On crossing up with a super fj. ;b in the corner after a throw. Its pretty easy just have to make sure you do a full super jump. If you press the button early it crosses up if your press it late it doesn't.

4. Interesting thing I found was after HCF+ ;b you can do instant crossups with hop forward j. d. ;b. These can be highly ambiguous. Even more interesting a couple times I was able to hit j.  ;d as a crossup from a hyperhop here and combo from it. Thing is again its really timing specific on the button press. If you hit your momentum stops and you can combo, but if you mess up you go flying pass them looking stupid. Timing is too tight to do consisently in my opinion but if someone can get that down that would be a hell of an ambiguous setup.

5. In the corner you can deal easily 400+ damage with a single meter off an EX Ryuenbu. Also setting up counterhit blow backs can lead to some pretty hefty meterless damage as well. For midscreen, I use her as a battery so I don't use meter here as except a super cancel to end the match it doesn't seem worth it.

6. She can combo an airthrow after EX Super in the corner.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 02:06:10 PM by Sephiroth73003 »

t3h mAsTarOth...!

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 06:54:49 PM »
cr.B, cr.B the opponent... if they keep blocking low then a hop B afterwards will cross-up and you can combo from it... her j.B is her best cross-up... no need to use anything else... you can do tricky double overheads from j.B, (d.B or air d.B)... the opponent has no option but to guess right...
KOFXIII - Raiden, Billy, Mai, Karate, Kim, Ralf, Ryo, Robert

SC 1-5 - Astaroth

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Sephiroth73003

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 10:54:00 PM »
I heard she could cancel her jump attacks into walljumps near the corner. Is that true? Can't seem to get it to work.

Kane317

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2011, 01:42:00 PM »
I heard she could cancel her jump attacks into walljumps near the corner. Is that true? Can't seem to get it to work.

In the arcade she could, they took it out.

SpLSlick

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 11:03:35 PM »
I know this is a small problem but when I was looking at the wiki of mai, if you look at the combos listed:
1 Stock, No Drive Gauge -j.D, j.d.B [128]. This combo is listed there. Also, are there combos that build decent meter without using meter? I will look at the arcade thread right now. But it was just a heads up
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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 09:51:56 AM »
Made up a practical combo list for Mai based off of her being a point character...


Mid-Screen Combos -

(0 Meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, (s.B, s.D) or (s.A, hcf+B) = 193/194 dmg

(1 Meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.A, hcf+BD, far s.D = 286 dmg

(1 Meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.A, hcf+B *2 hits*, DC, qcb+AC, Air Throw = 344 dmg


Half-Screen Away From Corner Combos -

(1 Meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.A, hcf+BD, Air Throw = 313 dmg

(1 Meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.A, hcf+BD, qcb+C *1 hit*, DC, qcf+A, qcb+C, qcb+C, Air Throw = 419 dmg


Corner Specific Combos -

(1 Meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, cr.B, s.A, qcb+AC, qcb+C, qcb+C, Air Throw = 437 dmg

(0 Meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, cr.B, s.A, hcf+B *2 hits*, DC, air qcb+A, qcb+C, Air Throw = 397 dmg

(1 Meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, cr.B, s.A, qcb+AC, qcb+C, qcb+C *1 hit*, DC, qcf+A, qcb+C, qcb+C, Air Throw = 497 dmg


HD Combos *Can Be Started Nearly Half-Screen Away From Corner* -

(0 Meter) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, s.D, HD, s.B, s.D, hcf+D *2 hits*, DC, air qcb+A, hcf+D *2 hits*, DC, qcb+C, qcb+C, qcb+C *1 hit*, DC, qcf+A, qcb+C, qcb+C *1 hit*, DC, qcf+A, qcb+C, qcb+C, Air Throw = 638 dmg

(2 Meters) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, s.D, HD, s.B, s.D, hcf+D *2 hits*, DC, air qcb+A, hcf+D *2 hits*, DC, qcb+C, qcb+C, qcb+C *1 hit*, DC, qcf+A, qcb+C, qcb+C *1 hit*, Neomax = 784 dmg
KOFXIII - Raiden, Billy, Mai, Karate, Kim, Ralf, Ryo, Robert

SC 1-5 - Astaroth

SaMsTarOth t3h mAsTarOth of AsTarOth...!

Elec

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2011, 12:15:59 AM »
I have similar combos to that last two, but they do a tiny bit more damage.

j.C, cr.B, st.B > st.D HDC st.C xx hcf+D(2) j.qcb+C > hcf+D(2) xx qcb.C > hcf+A(1) xx qcb.C > hcf+D(2) xx qcb.C > hcf+D(2) xx qcf~hcb+AC. 804 damage/20 stun. Uses two bars, builds ~1/5 a bar.

j.C, cr.B, st.B > st.D HDC st.C xx hcf+D(2) j.qcb+C > hcf+D(2) xx qcb.C > hcf+A(1) xx qcb.C > hcf+D(2) xx qcb.C > hcf+D(2) xx qcb.C > qbc.B > air throw. 646 damage, 44 stun. Meterless, builds half a bar.

Some notes:
If you let Mai slide forward between st.D HD st.C, you can start this from where they stand at round start and carry them to the corner. However, if you slide too long, even if the st.C hits, you won't have enough time for the ender.

You have to wait a tiny bit between qcb+C and hcf+A, or when you cancel into qcf+C you only hit with the flame. Too late, however, and they fall out of the combo.

The meterless combo stretches HD really thin, and the 2nd to last qcb+C uses it all up; if you're too slow, you'll run out of time before you can cancel the last hcf+D into it.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 12:19:18 AM by Elec »

Kazuhiro

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2011, 02:23:25 AM »
Made a practical combo video. Nothing too fancy, just practical combos a battery Mai user should be using.

Most of the combos are already noted in this thread, though.

KOF XIII: Mai BnBs & Practical Combos

mightfo

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2011, 05:05:27 AM »
Does anyone know if out of crouching C, crouching B, crouching A, close A, and close C which of mai's normals is the fastest? Or are they all like 4f?
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Kazuhiro

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2011, 08:10:34 AM »
Does anyone know if out of crouching C, crouching B, crouching A, close A, and close C which of mai's normals is the fastest? Or are they all like 4f?

There's no confirmed frame data released, but if I'd have to guess I'd say

cr.B > cr.A = st.A > cl.st.C > cr.C
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 03:37:29 PM by Kazuhiro »