Author Topic: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!  (Read 49682 times)

Killey

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #135 on: November 06, 2012, 06:23:32 PM »
I've hit a rut in the neutral/footsie and defensive aspects of the game.

I'm trying to do more trip guard punishes against jump-ins and I understand the concept of it. However, I don't understand how players are able to visualize that a trip guard punish is viable at certain points. I'm assuming there's some reading involved but is there a good rule of thumb when attempting a trip guard punish? I can understand against normal and super jumps but I've seen players trip guard small hops and I don't understand how they read/react to that. A slight misjudgment could mean they eat a combo. I know this is what separates the good and bad players but any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.

desmond_kof

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #136 on: November 06, 2012, 10:19:54 PM »
Honestly for me I just look for certain habits the opponent is doing while they are hopping in. If I notice a player using Shen or Daimon or Vice using a hop CD a lot, I know for sure that I will be able to trip guard anti-air with with crouching B if they are close to me. Plus, you have to be able to know what characters jump normals can be easily trip-guard anti-aired. I use record/playback functions in training mode to test and figure that out.
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davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #137 on: November 12, 2012, 08:29:40 AM »
I've hit a rut in the neutral/footsie and defensive aspects of the game.

I'm trying to do more trip guard punishes against jump-ins and I understand the concept of it. However, I don't understand how players are able to visualize that a trip guard punish is viable at certain points. I'm assuming there's some reading involved but is there a good rule of thumb when attempting a trip guard punish? I can understand against normal and super jumps but I've seen players trip guard small hops and I don't understand how they read/react to that. A slight misjudgment could mean they eat a combo. I know this is what separates the good and bad players but any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.


Sorry for the late reply! This is an excellent question. Anti airing with a low (what you're referring to as trip guard), is in essence the same as anti-airing normally. The major difference is that a successful anti air low B can lead to a full combo, which is obviously very important. The only rule of thumb that I can suggest would be that your anti air low will only work if your opponent is 1.) hopping or jumping in from slightly too far away to hit you (meaning they have mis-spaced their offense) or 2.) they have pressed their jump in attack way too early (this is common if they are attempting an air-to-air, rather than a jump in).

Basically, if they have timed/spaced their jump in perfectly, your anti air low will get beat out by their jump in and you will eat a full combo. In terms of being able to visualize/react to jump/hop ins, the first thing to take note of is the range of your low attack. You want to constantly remember that your low B is in fact an anti air tool, but only at specific ranges against different characters. Remember that sometimes an anti air low simply won't work, and that other anti-air options will be necessary. Knowing these specific ranges will require some training mode, and over time this reaction will become instinctual. With that said, it's pretty hard to do haha. That's why you only see it consistently being done at the highest levels.

Also, a note about terminology: Trip guard refers to a mechanic in games which allows characters to recover instantly as they land and block right away. If trip guard was in KoFXIII, anti airing with lows into full combos would actually be impossible (unless you're Vice LOLOL). "Trip guard" as a term has unfortunately been misused by many stream commentators (including myself, regrettably) so that people say it to mean the exact OPPOSITE of what it actually means. What we're really talking about when most people say trip guard is anti airing with a low.

I hope this was helpful!

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Feckless

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #138 on: November 12, 2012, 03:13:10 PM »
Well I guess I could give that a try....

-Training mode, is it possible to teach the second player to do fireballs all the time without me having to do them with the 2nd pad? As in you record a movement and then it gets repeated all the time?

-HD mode. I haven't figured this one out yet (aside from some HDBypass shenanigans). Is it just for showing off, or a legimate way to guard break a defense and get and huge chunk of damage in? How important to ones game is it to have HD combos mastered?

-Run in game. I am clueless about that one as well it seems. Last time I was playing online I really had trouble to hit after run ins and also to defend against a run in (as if the opponent was always able to hit me first). Is there something I am missing? How does a run-in game plan look like? Mix up high and low with hyperhops, break and use special, fastest pokes / reversal?

- Is there a good resource for learning block strings creating pressure in the corner and escaping in the corner? There seem to be a ton of videos when it comes to combos but blockstrings not that much

- I am searching for character specific tutorial videos similar to the Master class ones, but please in English or with subs. I am not that much interested in combo vids, just videos to learn the basics, tricks and setups of the characters. I do play Andy, Athena and Robert, but would also be interested in learning Joe, Shen, King and Takuma.

There is a ton to learn it seems.

desmond_kof

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #139 on: November 12, 2012, 06:08:22 PM »
Welcome to Dream Cancel. I'll answer a few of your questions at the moment.


-Training mode, is it possible to teach the second player to do fireballs all the time without me having to do them with the 2nd pad? As in you record a movement and then it gets repeated all the time?


Use record and playback mode. I show how to use it to test against safe and unsafe moves. I will make a video show how to use it to evade incoming offensive attacks.

KOFXIII Record mode tutorial


-HD mode. I haven't figured this one out yet (aside from some HDBypass shenanigans). Is it just for showing off, or a legimate way to guard break a defense and get and huge chunk of damage in? How important to ones game is it to have HD combos mastered?

HD mode is very important way to inflict massive damage in KOFXIII. I feel that it is important to master them because once you have the resources to be able to use them, you can really put a lot of fear into your opponent from getting hit just once. Different characters have more useful HD combos in the corner and mid-screen with different meter requirements and damage levels. I would suggest learning just one easy combo with your characters, then progress to something more harder and optimal later.

- Is there a good resource for learning block strings creating pressure in the corner and escaping in the corner? There seem to be a ton of videos when it comes to combos but blockstrings not that much


That's a good question. Honestly, watching match videos can show you various blockstrings that players use with their character. Next time you watch a match video, pay attention to what happens when either of the characters are on defense blocking in the corner (or mid-screen). Look at what strings they use to put pressure on the opponent or certain way they bait the opponent into pressing a button or mashing out a reversal.

- I am searching for character specific tutorial videos similar to the Master class ones, but please in English or with subs. I am not that much interested in combo vids, just videos to learn the basics, tricks and setups of the characters. I do play Andy, Athena and Robert, but would also be interested in learning Joe, Shen, King and Takuma.

Here is one for Andy created by Sparkster (that is in english)

Quick Max - Andy Master Class Tutorial

and here is one for King:

http://www.twitch.tv/quickmax/b/310947436

You can view more here: http://www.twitch.tv/quickmax/videos
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solidshark

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #140 on: November 12, 2012, 06:22:45 PM »
Just adding a little bit to what Desmond has said already; and officially welcome to Dream Cancel Feckless.

-HD mode. I haven't figured this one out yet (aside from some HDBypass shenanigans). Is it just for showing off, or a legimate way to guard break a defense and get and huge chunk of damage in? How important to ones game is it to have HD combos mastered?

It's not like custom combos from SFA3's V-sim or CVS2's A-Groove where you can do continuous specials/normals to do guard breaks. If you've performed a Drive Cancel, which is cancelling from a normal/special into a special/super, an activated HD mode allows you do to unlimited cancels that can combo or juggle your opponent for big damage. You can deliver a huge chunk of damage and show off, but you'll have to guard break without it, unless someone can note an exception.

Quote
-Run in game. I am clueless about that one as well it seems. Last time I was playing online I really had trouble to hit after run ins and also to defend against a run in (as if the opponent was always able to hit me first). Is there something I am missing? How does a run-in game plan look like? Mix up high and low with hyperhops, break and use special, fastest pokes / reversal?

It's possible that online lag was affecting your gameplay too, but I think run-ins can specifically work depending on the character and what normals they have. Most players will try hyper-hopping or super-jumping into their attacks. I've used run-ins to get close-up attacks or stopped short to throw a special at them, but I'm much more cautions when I do; it's easier to stop a run-in attack than any kind of jump. You'll notice some characters, especially the speedy characters, do it better than others.

Quote
- Is there a good resource for learning block strings creating pressure in the corner and escaping in the corner? There seem to be a ton of videos when it comes to combos but blockstrings not that much

- I am searching for character specific tutorial videos similar to the Master class ones, but please in English or with subs. I am not that much interested in combo vids, just videos to learn the basics, tricks and setups of the characters. I do play Andy, Athena and Robert, but would also be interested in learning Joe, Shen, King and Takuma.

There is a ton to learn it seems.

I can't think of any tutorials or character-specific videos like Master-class for XIII right now. Best resource I'd recommend for right now is our wiki and character threads to see what's been specifically posted already. If I find anything else specific you're looking for, I'll post it here.

Hope what I've written helps so far. David will be able to take things into more detail when he responds.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 12:11:23 PM by solidshark »
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Feckless

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #141 on: November 13, 2012, 09:11:14 PM »
First of all thanks for the welcome and the info.

Quote
It's not like custom combos from SFA3's V-sim or CVS2's A-Groove where you can do continuous specials/normals to do guard breaks. If you've performed a Drive Cancel, which is cancelling from a normal/special into a special/super, an activated HD mode allows you do to unlimited cancels that can combo or juggle your opponent for big damage. You can deliver a huge chunk of damage and show off, but you'll have to guard break without it, unless someone can note an exception.

Ah I thought it was this way after seeing this video here

http://dreamcancel.com/2012/07/28/kof-xiii-%E5%B8%B8%E8%AD%98%E7%9A%84%E3%81%AB%E8%80%83%E3%81%88%E3%81%A6-coordinated-guard-crush/

Quote
It's possible that online lag was affecting your gameplay too, but I think run-ins can specifically work depending on the character and what normals they have. Most players will try hyper-hopping or super-jumping into their attacks. I've used run-ins to get close-up attacks or stopped short to throw a special at them, but I'm much more cautions when I do; it's easier to stop a run-in attack than any kind of jump. You'll notice some characters, especially the speedy characters, do it better than others.

Lag might really be a reason although I am sure that a lack of skill from my side was also involved. Sadly there is not much of a KoF scene around here (Germany).

Quote
I can't think of any tutorials or character-specific videos like Master-class for XIII right now. Best resource I'd recommend for right now is our wiki and character threads to see what's been specifically posted already. If I find anything else specific you're looking for, I'll post it here.

Thanks, this already helped a lot. Do non-japanese people here really sit through the master class series?

Quote
Use record and playback mode. I show how to use it to test against safe and unsafe moves. I will make a video show how to use it to evade incoming offensive attacks.

Holy hell, I never would have figured out that on my own. Man, I can't remember reading this in the manual. Thanks, also for the great tutorials.

davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #142 on: November 14, 2012, 09:18:36 AM »

-HD mode. I haven't figured this one out yet (aside from some HDBypass shenanigans). Is it just for showing off, or a legimate way to guard break a defense and get and huge chunk of damage in? How important to ones game is it to have HD combos mastered?

-Run in game. I am clueless about that one as well it seems. Last time I was playing online I really had trouble to hit after run ins and also to defend against a run in (as if the opponent was always able to hit me first). Is there something I am missing? How does a run-in game plan look like? Mix up high and low with hyperhops, break and use special, fastest pokes / reversal?

- Is there a good resource for learning block strings creating pressure in the corner and escaping in the corner? There seem to be a ton of videos when it comes to combos but blockstrings not that much


Hey there! It seems like the other guys have answered most of your questions, so I'll just add my two cents regarding these topics.

HD mode is extremely important for most characters in the game. Very few characters have really bad optimized HD combos (King and Duolon). Remember that for any character you play, the combo you do should be geared towards METER OPTIMIZATION. This means, do the most damage as you can with a given combo starter and specific amount of meter. This will take some looking around/experimenting in training mode.

If you ever have full HD and your opponent has over 700 life, you will almost always need to do a meter efficient HD combo to kill them. Not being able to do this combo means that in these situations, you will not be able to win the match when you otherwise could have. This may be important or not, depending on how good/competitive you want to be.

When running, you can cancel your run into any normal attack or special move. However, you CANNOT cancel your run into a block. If you run and then hold back, there will be a couple frames where you are vulnerable. When playing online, even a couple frames of lag could make you very vulnerable while running. In terms of running in or rushing down, there is no set formula per se. What you should really be concentrating on is the movement and intention of your opponent. Remember to think critically, because telegraphing your offense with specific hop or attack patterns will not work in the long run. It may win you a couple matches here and there, but it won't make you a better KoF player.

When learning block strings, there are two things to consider:

1.) Is it safe on block? If not, what can it be punished by, and does my opponent know?
2.) Can it be easily guard cancel rolled and then punished?

Most of the time, your block strings will be a slightly modified version of your actual BnB combo that is safe on block and not easily guard cancel rolled. This will vary largely by what character you are playing.

I hope this helps! It's always great to see new players get into the game, and I hope you get a chance to play offline soon! In the long run, online play can actually hurt your KoF abilities.
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JAVH

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #143 on: November 18, 2012, 12:41:26 AM »
My question is:

The air to air game:  I almost ALWAYS lose this.  My friend plays Beni, Iori, Kyo.  I play K', Mr. Karate, and Saiki.  In my attempt to establish and offense I've been really trying to counter act his jumping normals because moves like Iori's J. D are so good that they often beat out my anti air attempts.  You'd think with Mr. Karate's j. CD I'd be doing a little bit of work, but I pretty much always get hit.  I've tried to adjust the timing of the attack (hitting earlier or later in the arc) but nothing seems to work.  I imagine that with time and experience I'll eventually work this out, but I was hoping you might have some general advice for navigating the air.  It feels like footsies are really happening in the air in this game, rather than on the ground.

Something that works for me 90% of the time in air to air is jumping with A or B, do you remember Vega's SF2 The World Warrior?? its very similar and can beat lot of C or D attacks in air

desmond_kof

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #144 on: November 18, 2012, 12:49:42 AM »

Something that works for me 90% of the time in air to air is jumping with A or B, do you remember Vega's SF2 The World Warrior?? its very similar and can beat lot of C or D attacks in air

I agree with this because many j.A's and j.B's have faster start up than j.C's and j.D's. Just make sure the direction of the attack is more horizontal if you're trying to hit air-to-air.
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The Fluke

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #145 on: November 18, 2012, 07:34:01 AM »
one thing to keep in mind about air to airs is that the player that is the highest up into the air will tend to win if both players use typical air to airs(usually horizontal) simply because the lower player will whiff or be hit in the head early. Beni for example jumps high so for characters with for example j.A's like Ryo or Joe that hit high up that's a good option if your opponent ends up higher up than you for one reason or another.

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #146 on: November 21, 2012, 11:50:51 PM »
one thing to keep in mind about air to airs is that the player that is the highest up into the air will tend to win if both players use typical air to airs(usually horizontal) simply because the lower player will whiff or be hit in the head early. Beni for example jumps high so for characters with for example j.A's like Ryo or Joe that hit high up that's a good option if your opponent ends up higher up than you for one reason or another.

this is good stuff. i use andys j.A over j.B for the same reason.




anyways, i could use a bit of advice with team choice and synergy... ive been playing since release and even a lil bit before that messing with the arcade version. after all this time i still just cannot settle on a 3rd character for my main team. its really holding me back.

for a long time ive just been doing [ Andy / X / Terry ] and [ X / Andy / Terry. ] i really want my team to be [ Andy / Terry / X ]

ive spent time on other characters but cant settle on anyone that feels right for 3rd. these are characters ive tried learning from best to worst:

1. Andy
2. Terry
3. Elisabeth
4. Mai
5. Iori
6. Vice
7. Athena

 Iori was the obvious first choice... i stuck with him for awhile and im just not liking the feel of him.
 i originally picked up Elisabeth as anchor because she can hurt with a little meter and a lot, but the opponents amount of meter is too much of a problem for me with Elisabeth. i really like this character and shes my 3rd best, but i have to put her on 1st or 2nd to work. similar issue with Vice, the opponents meter just keeps me at bay in the last round. i felt more restricted than with terry, which is the main reason i want to get him off 3rd.

ive been reccomended to pick up takuma as anchor for the same reason i was wanting to put elisabeth there. i feel like with takumas lack of defense i will just be having the same problems i am with other characters ive tried to put on anchor. as much as i feel Terrys lack of tools hurts me in the last round, atleast he has a great jab for hops and decent command normal for jumps.

davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #147 on: November 23, 2012, 12:54:06 AM »
one thing to keep in mind about air to airs is that the player that is the highest up into the air will tend to win if both players use typical air to airs(usually horizontal) simply because the lower player will whiff or be hit in the head early. Beni for example jumps high so for characters with for example j.A's like Ryo or Joe that hit high up that's a good option if your opponent ends up higher up than you for one reason or another.

this is good stuff. i use andys j.A over j.B for the same reason.




anyways, i could use a bit of advice with team choice and synergy... ive been playing since release and even a lil bit before that messing with the arcade version. after all this time i still just cannot settle on a 3rd character for my main team. its really holding me back.

for a long time ive just been doing [ Andy / X / Terry ] and [ X / Andy / Terry. ] i really want my team to be [ Andy / Terry / X ]

ive spent time on other characters but cant settle on anyone that feels right for 3rd. these are characters ive tried learning from best to worst:

1. Andy
2. Terry
3. Elisabeth
4. Mai
5. Iori
6. Vice
7. Athena

 Iori was the obvious first choice... i stuck with him for awhile and im just not liking the feel of him.
 i originally picked up Elisabeth as anchor because she can hurt with a little meter and a lot, but the opponents amount of meter is too much of a problem for me with Elisabeth. i really like this character and shes my 3rd best, but i have to put her on 1st or 2nd to work. similar issue with Vice, the opponents meter just keeps me at bay in the last round. i felt more restricted than with terry, which is the main reason i want to get him off 3rd.

ive been reccomended to pick up takuma as anchor for the same reason i was wanting to put elisabeth there. i feel like with takumas lack of defense i will just be having the same problems i am with other characters ive tried to put on anchor. as much as i feel Terrys lack of tools hurts me in the last round, atleast he has a great jab for hops and decent command normal for jumps.

Unfortunately, settling on a 3rd character (or any character for that matter) is not an issue that someone else can help you with. What character you play (and the reason you want to play them) is a very personal decision for every player. If you are considering all of the above characters and really have no preference for any of them, I recommend considering tiers (Iori and Vice would be better choices than Mai, and arguably Athena).

What I can say for sure, however, is that you SHOULD make a committed decision, and don't look back. Remember that ANY character you pick up will be weak in your hands initially, and you will get bodied over and over again with that new character. This doesn't mean that the character is not right for you, but merely that you need to stick with that character more to get better. Therefore, switching between lots of characters trying to decide on a 3rd based on your match results is not productive. You will only get your 3rd character on par with your other two if you stick to that character for an extended period of time. Also, be open minded in your team order. I definitely recommend putting whoever your new character is first in your lineup, because your first character will inevitably get the most playtime throughout casual sessions. I hope this was helpful!
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SPLIPH

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #148 on: November 25, 2012, 12:28:36 AM »

snip

snip
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated! =]

I guess I should rephrase what im trying to ask though. Ive very well considered just committing and sticking with my 3rd best character, but thats where my real problem comes in. Liz clicked with me a lot better than the other characters ive spent time learning. Im confident in being able to use her as an individual character, but I feel a small clash in synergy pairing her up with Andy and Terry. Ive learned Liz enough to the point where I dont think ill ever be comfortable putting her as my anchor. Kinda like how I wouldn't want to put Terry on point or Andy as anchor for my main team (admittedly, I know Liz can potentially play all 3 positions just as competently).

My most common team is [ X / Andy / Terry ] because im usually always trying to buff up a character. I can comfortably play Liz 2nd though, so I can atleast use my Andy at 100% when I feel like it. Same with Vice even though I suck with her. Im left forcing Terry on anchor, which is what I want to change the most and I just dont see happening if I stick with Liz. I can hold it down with Terry on anchor most of the time, but I just play him much better on 2nd when the opponent isnt fully loaded. I feel its due to his general lack of tools and is why im one of the only Terry players that always puts him on anchor. Would you say thats true, or can everyone play their anchor better on 2nd?

Do you guys think that im right at all about the team synergy, or am I just overthinking things and [ Andy / Liz / Terry ] is just as capable of a combination as any team?

One things for sure though. I really feel you on how all my time spent was not productive. While ive gotten better at the game, I feel im in no better a spot than I was 6+ months ago.

davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #149 on: November 26, 2012, 08:58:16 AM »
Well, although there are generally accepted rules of what makes a good point/anchor, at the end of the day it's all about what you make of it. For example, Justin Wong runs King as his anchor despite the fact that King is a horrible anchor, and still manages to do well in every tournament he enters. So in that sense, if a character is not working out in a certain position, it may be wise to switch around your order. Also, perhaps there are unexplored facets of your character that would resolve the problem (for example, learning a different combo that uses more meter than you have been using previously, so that your character is more potent on anchor when fully stocked).

It sounds like your opponent having tons of meter during the last round is a problem for you. If this is the case, I would analyze it separately to see what exactly you are doing to give him that much meter. Are you consistently landing HD with your 2nd? If so, maybe your 2nd should be your anchor. This is all just food for thought, but in the end team order is something you need to decide on for yourself. I've seen many great players play really weird/dumb team orders for whatever reason and it totally works out for them. The most important part is to have confidence in your game plan.

On paper, team synergy matters. If someone came up to me and asked if Shen, Duolon, Kula is a good team order, I'd say hell no and that he should run Kula or Duolon on point. However, in practice I've realized that team synergy doesn't matter nearly as much as the skill of the player. Your team in particular is not bad. You lack a truly top tier character, and among Andy Terry Liz all three are not known to be strong anchors, but all three can function as point or 2nd successfully. It then comes down to who's HDs you are most consistent with, because that character will bring you the most comebacks. You can play any of your characters well enough to be great anchors, it just takes a little more work than traditional anchors like claw Iori or Shen. I guess the whole point of what I'm trying to say is, don't sweat the details. Just keep grinding with your team, and the best order will present itself to you naturally.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 09:08:28 AM by davidkong07 »
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