Author Topic: terry bogard matchup thread  (Read 9557 times)

Sharnt

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2013, 02:37:19 PM »
Hu? Why bother using crackshoot B?
According to the frame data it is -2 if guarded high, and 0 if guarded low. Crackshoot D is -1/+2.

If the crackshoot D lands on a crouching opponent you can combo afterward, you're + if guarded low, you're safer on block high, enabling you to restart the pressing if your opponent doesn't have a 3f. Why would you ever want to use the B version?

If you rely on the reaction time you're doing it wrong imo.
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2013, 07:22:01 PM »
Hu? Why bother using crackshoot B?
According to the frame data it is -2 if guarded high, and 0 if guarded low. Crackshoot D is -1/+2.

If the crackshoot D lands on a crouching opponent you can combo afterward, you're + if guarded low, you're safer on block high, enabling you to restart the pressing if your opponent doesn't have a 3f. Why would you ever want to use the B version?

If you rely on the reaction time you're doing it wrong imo.

Because people can interrupt you in between Crackshoot D and any normal. B crackshoot is an actual blockstring. You have to guard cancel roll out. Crackshoot D is not a true blockstring. If someone notices the gap, they can poke you out of it with fast enough normals, DP, super, anything in between your normal and crackshoot.

I would use B to keep them honest. If you're trying to guard crush, it's just as good. If they start to respect your pressure more, you can try getting away with D crackshoot to guarantee yourself some advantage.

With the setups I've posted, if they block low, you are right in front of them. If they block high, there's some extra push back so they can't hit you.

Sharnt

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2013, 08:37:06 PM »
Yeah that's what I said in my first post about it not being a true blockstring :

Another way to mix is to do d.B,d.A (you can delay quite a lot to let you the time to confirm) d.C if it does hit, and then mix a little with either canceling the d.A into crackshoot, or doing s.B, crackshoot (d.B,d.A,s.B,qcb.D), if they get up for blocking the crackshoot high after d.A they take the risk to eat the s.B. Once they wait the crackshoot after d.A or s.B, just do d.B throw.
There is (should be, not sure again) a hole between d.A and crackshoot D, but if your opponent mash a dp between and you do s.B it's gonna hit, because it's a blockstring and he needs to stand up for buffering the motion.
However there is nothing preventing them to do a reversal between s.B and your crackshoot, so be careful.
Again if they stand up after s.B for guarding the crackshoot you can throw a sweep.


But yeah your pressings are an other way to mix things.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 08:38:39 PM by Sharnt »
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2013, 09:38:58 PM »
What's nice about doing B crackshoot is the range is perfect to do it again. You can kind of mix up what you want to do from there and do crackshoot again from a perfectly safe distance. d.A and st.B both are within range so you can do d.A, d.C to test if they press buttons (Unless it's a light normal, d.A is usually faster) they'll get hit for a hitconfirmable combo. If not, crackshoot again and you can easily keep doing d.A, d.C from the same range.

Mix up your response a little with st.CD, st.B, or go for a hop to switch it up.

Sharnt

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2013, 09:48:20 PM »
But if you do d.A,d.C, he doesn't have to guard low, if the crackshoot B ends in guard you lose all your momentum, or worste you get punished (It's either -2 or 0, in all situations you lose the advantage).

Where it's a lot harder to punish the -1 D crackshoot, and even if your opponent guard you can take the risk to push buttons because you have a 3f with your s.C. At -2 even someone without a 3f, or who miss the timing a little with his 3f will have a free combo, even worse if you try to do d.A again.

And the big problem is, even if he guards the crackshoot crouched you're at 0, you don't have the slightiest advantage, if you try to do a d.A you will likely do a double hit with your opponent at best because everyone has a 4f move. And you will eat a combo if they have a 3f.

What do you have to keep them from pressing buttons in this situation? B crackshoot eats lows, but if they mash a standing 3f? It might work against characters without 3f, but if you never do a s.C to make them fear the frame trap, it's useless. That's why you need the D crackshoot frame advantage to keep your pressure, and so to make them fear to stand up.


PS: I checked, Terry's d.A is 5f, it's even worse :c
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 10:37:21 PM by Sharnt »
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2013, 10:35:03 PM »
You're not losing momentum by being at 0F or -2. From the distance you're at, there's very few people who can combo you if any without a super cancellable far normal.

If you finish off with qcb+B, you're at the max range of d.A. d.A is ~5F. At 0F, someone would have to do a normal 5F or faster to hit you or trade. There are no 3F light normals that are combo-able from the distance qcb+B places you at. It whiffs completely (Takuma's d.B). EDIT: The only character so far that has a normal that can combo into after blocking qcb+B is Kim with st.B, but that only happens if he blocks standing and he can only combo into ff+A. If d.B is the normal you do, st.B from Kim trades with your d.B resulting in no combo.

All far-standing normals, CD or the like, come out at approximately 5F or slower. There's no 4F far standing normal as far as I know. Any standing normal that has lower body invulnerability is stuffed out by d.A, that includes Kim's far st.D, Kyo's far st.D, Athena's far st.D, Saiki's far st.D, Benimaru's far st.D, and a number of other people's st.CDs.

So, my point is that even if they don't guard low, they either trade or get beat. You don't lose anything in a trade except returning to neutral.

It's a viable strategy for applying pressure to people, especially if they make a mistake. You are right, at most, there's a -2 window. By doing your fastest response, d.B into st.B, you are still responding in 6F when someone's normal might be active by then. 7F if you use d.A. That's an acceptable risk considering the consequences are light and the awards for a successful hit/block are decent.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 10:49:24 PM by Reiki.Kito »

Sharnt

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2013, 11:01:12 PM »
Takuma's 3f is d.A

A lot of far A are 4f.

I don't have the game at hand right now so I can't test stuff.

But I do think that most 4f d.A/B will beat you cleanly, even if they should whiff because you are trying to hit will expand your hurtbox and make you vulnerable. After that comboing is too character specific to be discussed here.
If you react with d.B you expose yourself to low invulnerable move, in both case if they guard the crackshoot B high and you try to push a button while crouching they should have a free jump in.

And be back at neutral is the definition of losing momentum ...

The only character so far that has a normal that can combo into after blocking qcb+B is Kim with st.B, but that only happens if he blocks standing and he can only combo into ff+A. If d.B is the normal you do, st.B from Kim trades with your d.B resulting in no combo.

You mean that if Kim does d.B after guarding your crackshoot B high on this setup and you try to mash your d.A/B his d.B loses? Or whiff?

I'm really dubious but if that's the case you're right
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 11:04:56 PM by Sharnt »
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2013, 11:20:08 PM »
I don't really want to argue. I'm testing it in real time so I feel pretty good with how I feel things are testing. All I can say to everyone reading this is to try it out and see how it fits for you. It's not perfect, but it gives you the opportunity to make adjustments for people adjusting to you.

So, it's a tactic that's useable rather than a gimmick. With that, I'm pretty done with the conversation on crack shoot pressure unless there's something new to be said.

EDIT: Edited my first post with all the setups I've got so far and what I've tested all summarized in the notes section:
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 11:50:04 PM by Reiki.Kito »

Sharnt

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2013, 11:23:25 PM »
I don't see anything to add without me testing this stuff, it'll wait a few days.
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2014, 11:19:54 PM »
Hello everyone, here's another match-up analysis. This is a pretty hard match so there's not much to say. I'll try something new and talk from the states of combat which are neutral, offensive, and defensive.

Sum-up: Terry is pretty okay in neutral and does well with offensive, but he crumbles to EX Iori's offensive pressure.

Terry vs. EX Iori

Neutral state: When both characters are not knocked down, being hit, or blocking

Terry vs. EX Iori goes pretty evenly in the neutral game. Both characters have a long enough range where they can poke pretty well.  EX Iori does not have very far reaching or forward moving moves other than his Aoi hana, his rekka move, and his DP. EX Iori has a list of tools in neutral to keep people out and to play offensively and defensively. Ex Iori has a ground fireball, a 3 frame close C, far reaching normals, and a very oppressive air game. His recovery after a fireball is not so fast so at neutral, but the fireballs move very fast. His C fireball is one of the fastest moving fireballs in the game. However, he's quite punishable.

As Terry, you can play from mid range. Your job at neutral is to score a knockdown, soft or heavy. You'll want to continue to poke at max range to test him with st.B, st.C, sweep, or st. CD. Your st.CD will be very crucial as you can whiff cancel it on hit or block. Spacing is very important. You can't abuse your crackshoot pressure if he blocks high, he gets a full combo from st.C. Spacing out burn knuckle and crackshoot so he's too far to punish with st.C is going to be important. He still has good tools to keep you out so don't get offensive right after any of these. Keep pressuring him till you can corner him or force him into a habit of blocking low with mix ups of sweeps. You also want to keep him from starting his offensive pressure. Letting him jump in to start offensive pressure is bad. In hop range, depend on st.A and df+C to keep him out. Be ready for counter hit to follow up with a special tack-on. Stay in the middle of the map, but don't be afraid to step into his range for low pressure. You want him to block low so when you set up your offensive pressure, he's conditioned to go low.

For this, poking with d.B into d.A to see how reacts is good choice of judgement at close range. However, don't get comfortable. He's got an assortment of reversals if you're too aggressive or too lazy with your approach into offense.

Good conditioning is important with any match-up, but it's very important here. Once you've conditioned him with either blocking low or forgetting to block low, you can add in sweeps or EX Crackshoot to score that knockdown. Then offense begins. You can use EX Power Wave as well to forge your way inside and force him to block, but remember that he has VERY oppressive air normals and he's very fast. Reliance on EX Power wave won't be too good here unless you're going for an offensive guard break.


Defense: Where you are knocked down or blocking an opponent's attack

On defense, Terry is very defenseless. If you're successful in defensive anti-airing, that's good, but if Ex Iori gets in close, he's very dominant. This is more so apparent in the corner. If you do not feel like reading the rest of my explanation, I simply say the following: Do not let him corner you and keep your distance.

For those that want to stick around for the long haul, Terry has only one reversal. Rising tackle is a surprisingly simple reversal and helps with a lot of situations. However, the safe jump pressure from EX Iori is strong. Most of his combos end in hard knockdown so if you have been knocked down, teching it won't help. This gives him ample amount of time to attack you from the air with very tricky cross-ups and meaty pressure. He can also bait a lot of reversals with his quick air command normal. Doing a backdash to back+B allows him to move really far away really fast. This adds to his pressure by covering a good amount of distance after a blockstring and adds a new dimension he can do to force bad mistakes.

While being pressured, a common frame trap almost all levels of EX Iori use is his Aoi Hana, his rekka. On block, you can do far C to punish him from any distance. He can try to cancel the active frames, but it will always punish. The timing for this punish is tight so with meter, you can do any version of Buster Wolf (qcfx2+K) to punish it.

That being said, normal pressure is more commonly used by more advanced players. After performing a blockstring, they will run forward and continue to advance poking with normals. He has a standing low in close st.B and he normal combos st.A into far st.B so he has very good frame traps. In between aggressive attacks, you can hold down back and do d.A to keep his pressue at bay. This will poke him out of Aoi hana if he decides to approach with it or stop run-ins after pressure. Be prepared for the trade or push back with your own offense cautiously.

EX Iori has a command grab, Scum Gale. It's very slow, but if you're too concerned with blocking, he can open you up and score a knockdown off of it. On knockdowns, consider backdashing on wake up to avoid mixups like this that will crack you open.

On that note, fairly advanced EX Iori players can crack people open with relatively early j.C and j.D normals. They combo well with cl.C because of it being 3F so early jump-ins are very good for him. These tactics are better in the corner where pushback is minimal from blocked normals. This allows for a high, low, and command grab mix-up pressure that can test the patience of even the most seasoned of players. It's very important to NOT get cornered by EX Iori. His job is made much easier if you're cornered by increased damage on hit as well as hard to predict attack strategies. Rather than blow meter on a reversal, look for an opportunity to guard cancel roll past any far heavy normals to get out or start your own offense. Look for patterns. If the Iori likes to do a fireball after a certain attack string, guard cancel roll for a full combo. If they like to grab at a certain moment, back dash or hop up to punish them if they whiff. You can also alternate guard (toggling back and down back on the stick) to avoid the grab mix up.


Offensive: When you are pressuring an opponent that is blocking, not blocking, or has been knocked down.

Terry has a fairly good time approaching from the ground using d.B, d.A into d.C for the full confirm. If blocked, alternating between your normals like (d.A, d.B, st.B), (d.A, st.C), (st.A, throw), or (st.B, st.CD, cancel into a safe special) to keep them guessing what you might do. Don't get too predictable. EX Iori has two reversals at his disposal. His EX Oniyaki, his dragon punch, moves forward 3 times and also can be drive canceled into a knockdown combo. Bait this out whenever possible with constant normal pressure and taking time to see the reaction. If you notice the opponent starting to twitch or stand, it's a sign he's ready to retaliate.

He also can use scum gale for run-in attacks. EX Scum gale in particular is invincible for a very long time so it means using safe jumps against him become difficult if an opponent uses that against you. Stick to hops and cross ups after conditioning to see what will make them crack, but avoid full jump ins. If you have him knocked down by EX Crackshoot, you can do a confusing roll set up instead of a safe jump to make him wary of which side you're on. He might revert back to using st.C on defense rather than confidently using specials to keep you out. This is not bad as a roll setup allows you to do a meaty. If he guesses wrong on scum gale or oniyaki, he'll mess up the input and you'll stuff him out of whatever he chooses to do. Just make sure he guesses wrong!

As always, test it out first. If he does scum gale a lot during your safe jumps, switch up to rolling. If he's pretty good at predicting your rolls, switch to safe jumping or fake him out by backdashing to make him react. Above all else, don't take chances. You need to keep pressure up.

 A good thing for Terry is that Oniyaki goes forward before going straight up. This means you can super jump over the DP pre-emptively if you're baiting it as well. If he doesn't, you have only reset the situation and have placed yourself at neutral.

In offense, you also have the option to guard crush him. Terry can lead in with this by constantly barraging his opponent with normals like st.B, d.B, and st.CD into fairly spaced crackshoot or use EX Powerwave to get in. EX Iori, again, has very good defensive options and fast normals. Any gaps can be broken out of by st.C, the key to guard crush pressure against EX Iori is breaking it up into pieces. You want to do enough guard bar damage to get him to about 60-70% of his guard gauge. Once it's down, you reset the situation. Stop attacking and wait to see if he goes for the gap with a reversal. His guard gauge will recover a little, but not fully if you get back to pressuring him. At worst, you're in neutral and you're both fairly even at neutral. Once you've pecked him away to about 50% of his guard bar, you can go hail mary and insert a guard crush blockstring to open him up.

An example:

j.C, sweep, df+C, qcb+D, st.C, df+C, qcf+AC
or
j.C, st.D, df+C, qcf+AC, hyper hop j.C, d.B, d.A, d.C

This works only because the opponent is conditioned to block after a combo. You have to condition them not to guard cancel roll, blow back, or dp in between the qcb+D and qcf+AC or it will fail.

Keep in mind, st.D, (df+C) or special and d.A, d.C chain are great tools for pressure because they can be delayed and create psuedo frame traps. Take a look at Crimson415's videos on delayed normals to get a good feel of how to use these in situations. You can take advantage of these situations to encourage blocking as well or discourage blocking when you'd like them to press buttons.


Summary: EX Iori is a very tough match up. Although I've tried to paint a positive light for Terry, it's not a very good match up. His mobility, damage output, and pressure make his offense very difficult. As well, with an even neutral footing, you have an equal chance of being put into a defensive position with Terry. This complicates things with meter as Iori can, from anywhere, do a 100% with enough meter or complete an infinite combo. On the same grade as Shen, you do not want to give EX Iori a clean hit. If played with caution and considerable knowledge about the player's habits and tendencies, you can make this match up work for you.

Thanks for reading!

meiji_99

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2014, 07:02:00 AM »
@Reiki nice sharing, i have a difficulty too when vs both iori using terry.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2014, 10:59:48 PM »
Thanks, it's a cumulative essay from my experiences and everyone else's in the KOF Tournament Players FB group.

Terry is by far a struggling character for a number of reasons, which is why he's not picked highly around the world in tournaments. He has too many different options for one approach. Where as Iori can kind of no-brainer his way through a match up, you have to really understand the game to make Terry work for you.

He's iconic and picked as a fan favorite, but many competitive players like Reynald will tell you there are way better characters that don't require as much effort. He's harder to win with. That's reality. We're still here with Terry because we don't care.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-

Okay, so now I'm going to begin my analysis of the match up vs. Mr. Karate. Like before, I'll write in the 3 following stages: Neutral, Offense, and Defense.

Sum-up: Terry does not exactly struggle, but he is at a disadvantage in neutral and severely at disadvantage on the defense. Don't let Mr. Karate get a solid hit off anything.

Terry vs. Mr. Karate

Neutral state: When both characters are not knocked down, being hit, or blocking

Far range:
The objective against Mr. Karate is to avoid, not block, any of his advances. On the other side of the screen, he's not very frightening. He lacks a full screen fireball like his counterpart so keep away and hit-and-run by fireballs is not his fortee. However, he will use his counter to get in. This allows him to block stray power waves to get into close or mid-range. You don't want that. Be wary of throwing fireballs at Mr. Karate haphazardly. Set yourself up to recover before he blocks it or don't rely on full screen fireballs in general.


Mid range: Air and ground
Mr. Karate thrives in mid-range. His light fireball has a constant hitbox upon activation making it an instant attack upon active frames. Think of it as a large wall of damage. The length of this fireball is about 3 character lengths and you can hop over it. It's common to use the light fireball as a keep out tool in mid range. Pick your moments and soar over the fireball's active frames to give yourself the win. Unless you have meter, there's no benefit in blocking it. You don't want to be put in the defense against Mr. Karate. The C version is much slower, has a command dash. If he dashes in, you can punish him with st.C clean. The timing can be practiced, but you should not give him the luxury. If you have meter, any version of buster wolf cleanly punishes him for this tactic.

At mid-range, you will not have to deal very much with forward moving normals as much as his hop pressure. His low arc, but small body allows him to easily cross up standing opponents. This is especially true because Mr. Karate will use his j.CD which has a hitbox in front and beneath him to keep you pinned and respect his advances. On jumps, you can pre-emptively jump up and keep him out with an assortment of normals, primarily j.B, j.CD, and j.C. You can rising tackle to keep him from getting in or stick to df+C. Keep in mind you run the risk of trading unless you do rising tackle because of its faster startup than most j.CDs, long active frames, and big hitbox. Trades aren't bad, but they're not in your favor. If they hop, st.A and df+C are your best bet. However, you're going to trade a lot of the time if Mr. Karate does j.CD. He'll likely do j.CD to get in or start pressure. Here, you can control the spacing by back dashing and hitting an anti-air normal or jump higher than him and land on top of him. You want to avoid blocking it because it puts him in close range.

His 3F st.C or cr.A gives him access to a full combo off of higher jump-ins so it's best to be wary. Mid range also gives him the max distance to do his Air Hien (His flying kick). The heavy version dives down for a double-kick while the first one flies at you forward. None of these are safe, but the D version is a decent poking tool if spaced properly. Early anti-airs can be baited and attacked using this move which combos into the EX version of it for a full combo. It's important to be hasty, but not too hasty with your anti-air. If successfully placed on the ground, his options are limited, but not gone. His EX grab allows him to teleport in and grab you. This is dangerous, but simply backdashing when he disappears gives you a free full combo because it makes the grab whiff and he appears in front of you.  To avoid his ridiculous combo potential, it's good to play keep away. Roll to get away from cross ups or block accordingly in mid-range. Do not get cornered by him. Stay in mid-range and avoid a close up fight, which we will talk about now.

Close range:
Mr. Karate has a very strong close-up game. Using his running command grab from about a character length away is hard to see. If you're too defensive, he'll nail you with anything. Mr. Karate can combo off of anything, which makes him dangerous. Where you could be vying for offensive pressure, one poorly timed attack can lead into full combo.

Almost all of Mr. Karate's normals are stubby so unless you're in the corner or blocking a jump-in, you won't see any ground normals from him. He has a decent sweep which is free-cancelable into his fireball. Keep in mind his light fireball is -3F. Even up close, you won't be able to punish it as Terry due to not having a 3F response. At close range, you can use meter to guard cancel roll before the fireball strikes. It's 10F start up so you can respond to it before it hits you. This is very difficult to do, but paying attention to your opponent's patterns and behaviors will give you that opportunity. He has a 3F st.C and a 3F cr.A, both of which are very good close range. He can use these in tandem as pokes, especially cr.A because it's +2 on block. Close up, his poking will almost certainly give him a way in from being at advantage. Don't give him the opportunity. If you're in close range, block. When he's finished, give him some space. Do not engage unless he's done something unsafe or predictable. I cannot stress this enough: Read and learn your opponent or you will die.

Close up, he also can hop over most standing opponents. Be wary of cross ups as they can sometimes look ambiguous. If you aren't confident in a  normal, roll forward to gain distance or block.

Defense: When you are knocked down or blocking an opponent's attack

Now, if you're on defense, this is inherently bad. Mr. Karate has very positive buttons so his frame traps are fairly solid. Save for a Rising Tackle, you're not going to out poke him which is why letting him put you in a defensive position is very bad. Most of the time, his offensive pressure will end mid-screen after a few normals because his normals are incredibly stubby. The shift is when they stop pressuring you. If a Mr. Karate player stops mid blockstring and attacks erratically, they've understood the character enough not to let you get comfortable. Most often than not, a seasoned Mr. Karate player will bully you into the corner with varying array of hops and normals. They will rarely use specials because at midscreen, this effectively ends their assault. If they have used a special, you can back up and reset the situation back to neutral. He does not have any overheads, but his running grab will be a problem if you continue to block. If they use a special in a predictable way, you can use this to your advantage and guard cancel roll before it comes out. Even if they use predictable command normals, you can guard cancel roll through those as well. f+B, for example, is 18F start up and -7 on block. It's not whiff cancelable. It's commonly done after st.C as well. If someone does st.C, they're probably going to do f+B. Guard cancel roll on the st.C to gain yourself the advantage and put them on defense. You have to be quick to gain a hit as it puts you far away, but without fear of a throw punish and invulnerability till you're out of a GC roll, it's very good to turn the tables.

He has very good safe-jumps. Being knocked down is very dangerous as his ambiguous jump ins and constant pressure are very hard to deal with.  Tech rolling is often advised, but should not be abused as it backs you right into the corner.

The corner is the absolute worst place to be. Even though specials will end his pressure, he's fairly safe after them and fast enough to keep you pinned in the corner if you jump or roll out. Your only safe option is knocking him down or poking out of pressure. Needless to say, this is difficult and a seasoned player will crack you eventually. Do not get in this situation. Avoid the corner. Find any safe route out of the corner. If you are in the corner, be patient. You need to find patterns you can use to predict when to get out. Stay solid and pick your opportunities wisely so you can get out. If you have meter, you can still GC roll, but resetting the situation with a counter or GCCD will work too. If they try to jump, anti-airing with a rising tackle will not always work. They can ride the wall down and avoid a poorly timed rising tackle, giving them a free open. If they try to full jump on you in the corner, instead block and get yourself out of the corner. If they keep hopping at you with j.CDs, keep in mind that you can block j.CDs crouching. Early j.CDs can be stuffed with d.B as well. Failed attempts at command grabs will get you out of the corner. Just stay strong and patient, they will start to get creative and that will be their undoing.

Remember, your defense has to be solid. Mr. Karate can take 60% of your life with a net total of one bar and one drive. He is incredibly dangerous, tricky, and brutal. He also gets even more dangerous in the corner. Stay solid and patient if you're in the corner or Terry is good as dead.

Offensive: When you are pressuring an opponent that is blocking, not blocking, or has been knocked down.

Short of an HD combo, you will need at least 3 power bars and 1 drive bar to kill Mr. Karate. That means when you get in, you have to set up an opportunity to get in again. Against top-tier characters, do not give them any quarter.

Capitalizing on stray hits will help out dearly. Getting counter hits or hits with far st.C, crackshoot, or counter hit df+C will lead into combos. Some without any real need for drive meter. Use any oppportunity to the full extent to whittle away at Mr. Karate's life. EX Power Geyser does the most damage as a combo ender, but it will not easily present you with frame advantage. Ending a combo with Buster Wolf will give you enough advantage to safe jump a tech roll which is a plenty of advantage.

Cross ups are advised from a position of advantage. On knockdown, Mr. Karate is fairly limited. However, from start to finish, his light DP is invincible and is four frames. It also combos into an almost 50% attack. That's a lot for a mistake. Don't give him that opportunity. Set up safe jumps and make sure they're air tight. If you're going to cross up, make sure it's after a knockdown and not at neutral. Don't be predictable with your approach. Give yourself some lee-way to keep the pressure on. Use your light normals to continue to bully him, but keep in mind that he has fast close normals. Approach closely at your own peril. His normals are still stubby though and his d.C isn't that great for anti-air. It's not like Takuma where you can jump in whenever you like save for his Ryuko Ranbu, but you can pressure him a bit from close range and jump periodically when they try to counter poke or guess wrong.

You have to respect his space, but once you're in, do not let him go. Mix in tick throws to increase the amount of hard knockdown situations. You can use some meter to do EX crackshoot to set up safe jumps or ambiguous roll set ups to get in. If you prefer to stay on the ground, you can continue to use st.B and properly spaced crackshoot, power wave, to keep the pressure on. Bait out guard cancel rolls and moments to escape. Delay your blockstrings and mix them in with running forward to confuse the opponent on whether you'll commit to the block string for a few more normals or if you'll stop and advance again.

As mentioned before, be wary about keeping up the pressure. A counter poke is possible with his 3F normals and his DP is still invulnerable.


Summary: Whether you're playing against him in any position on the team, Mr. Karate is a problem. You will have to exercise every opportunity you can afford to make sure that he dies. On neutral, your best bet is to not give him clean hits like back dashing on wake up or avoiding jumps by jumping away or up. Defense is best fought in the mid ground. The corner is a difficult place to fall back from. Mr. Karate can be defensive as well so exercise caution while fighting him. Once in, do not let go of pressure. Give them the room to make their own mistakes, but do not be overzealous. You'll have your time. You have the tools to fight him. Know what to look for and always read your opponent's patterns.

Crimson_King15

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2014, 05:09:00 PM »
I will have a seperation write up but I have to completely disagree terry has no issues vs karate in neutral in fact he does better than karate because he controls more of the screen than he does.

CaptainGinyu

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2014, 02:26:45 PM »
How do I fight Yuri with Terry? She's like a Predator drone.
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2014, 08:09:29 AM »
You brought up a good question so I posed it to the FB group who have been pooling their ideas on matchups together. Yuri will be covered next.

Should have plenty on that topic by the end of the week.