Author Topic: Ash Crimson (Arcade Version)  (Read 38603 times)

nilcam

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Ash Crimson (Arcade Version)
« on: October 27, 2010, 04:14:57 AM »


Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

* = EX version possible


Throws
;bk / ;fd +  ;c /  ;d = Recompenses
Ash grabs his opponent with his hand on their face and makes a small green flaming explosion.
- Can be broken
- Hit Detection: Close
- Damage: 100


Command Normals
;bk +  ;b = Floreal
Ash does a twirl-like motion while standing on one leg and thrusts his other leg towards his opponent, it's still pretty safe and fast so it's prone to catch people off guard, use it sparingly.
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 50

;bk + ;d = Floreal (backward)
Same as Floreal except he's moving backwards now, useful after a jump-in/cross-up
- Faster than ;bk + ;b
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 50


Special Attacks
Charge ;bk, ;fd +  ;a / ;c = Ventose *
Ash makes flaming green crescent then throws it at the opponent, the weak version shoots one crescent, the strong version still has slower start-up but travels faster with more damage potential and bigger hitbox, does two hits and counter acts other projectiles as well, neither versions can be spammed much because of their fixed recovery but you should feel obligated to use them regardless, zoning tool for far or mid-screen pressure.
- EX shoots two separate crescent blades very fast
- Super Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 60/22+45+70/40+80+40+80

Charge  ;dn, ;up + ;b / ;d = Nivose *
Ash somersaults up into the air with green flames coming out near his feet, An excellent AA that can be used to punish jump-ins, makes for a good wake-up attack and an all around punisher as well, the B version is really quick and the recovery on it allows it to be somewhat spammable, the strong version lasts longer but because of the bigger hitbox it's harder to punish now, use it in BnB's just to be safe.
- EX does more hits and has an invincible start-up
- Drive/Super Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 50+30/65+30x2/80+40x3

Charge ;bk, ;fd +  ;b /  ;d = Germinal Caprice *
Ash dashes forward and tackles the opponent while covered in flames, the weak version comes out faster and knocks the opponent. the strong version goes further and juggles the opponent.
EX does more hits and juggles the opponent into the air for a follow-up.
- Drive/Super Cancel-able
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 60/75/20x3+80

;qcb + ;a /  ;b / ;c / ;d = Genee *
Ash blows a kiss that makes a green flame appear in an area depending on which button you press, it works a lot like Orochi Shermie's Moonless Thundercloud, an excellent zoning and pressure tool for opponents getting up or in the corner. weak punch version comes out at arm length. weak kick version comes out at about half screen. strong punch version comes out at 3/4 screen. strong kick version comes out at the other side of the screen.  
- EX comes out quicker and makes the flame explode instantly.
- Super Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 30/40x2+50

Desperation Move
;qcf x 2+ ;a / ;c = Thermidor
Ash makes a giant green energy ball then propels it towards his opponent, the start-up is mediocre so you have to be very careful when you use either version of this DM.
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 20x7+40

;qcf x 2+ ;b / ;d = Pluivose *
Ash does three Nivose's in a row, comes out pretty fast making it pretty easy to combo into, it's still an okay AA since the hitbox on Nivose is a bit bigger, there isn't much of difference between the B or D version except the D version is faster and goes a bit higher.
- EX has an invincible start-up and executes another Nivose rep.
- Max Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 20x6+30x3/20x9+40x3

;a ,  ;b , ;c , ;d = Sans Culotte
Greens flames shoot from the ground around Ash causing him to glow a green aura, this move allows all his charge moves to have zero charge time (Ventose, Nivose, and Germinal Caprice) for a short period (lasts a little over five seconds) allowing Ash to freely combo with any of his charge moves, incredibly good against opponents in the corner and has immense juggle potential, the start-up frames aren't invincible so be sure to combo into it just to be safe, works very well as a reversal, uses 2 stocks.
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 100

;qcb, ;hcf +  ;a  ;c = Germinal
Ash dashes across the screen leaving a trail of green flames (and his opponent) behind him, it's an interesting move because the damage potential is good and it seals your opponents special attacks, drive meter, and special meter for about 10 seconds, doesn't work as an AA unless they're right near the ground as soon as you activate it, if both characters are in the corner when this is used they'll both be returned to the middle of the stage, also has okay cross-up potential, it's also only usable while Sans-Culotte is active, and if this move is activated it will cancel out San-Culotte.
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 0+15x12

Neomax
;hcb x 2+  ;b ;d = Fructidor
Ash grabs the opponent an laughs while he engulfs them in a myriad of purple flames, then it ends with the flames exploding launching the opponent far into the air then hitting the ground. When max canceled into it pulls the opponent to the ground to execute it.
- Hit Detection: Close/High
- Damage: 480


Ash's Wiki entry

Console changes:
- (shown in video) All versions of Genie stay on the screen longer.
- (shown in video) Sans-culotte (ABCD) has had its damage scaling adjusted. It scales more overall.
- Floreal (forward) (b+B) has faster startup and can be comboed from light attacks.
- B version of Nivose (d_u+K) has had its invincibility increased. The invincibility ends as soon as the hitbox appears.
- EX Genie now knocks away while retaining its juggling properties
- (shown in video) Germinal now takes no gauge
- (shown in video) Thermidor’s startup is faster
- (shown in video) The version of EX Genie done using both kicks tracks the opponent.

Yamamoto – Genie remains on the screen for a longer time. It may be interesting to use Genie as a wall of defense as Ventose can now be used while Genie is present. Although Sans Culotte scales more frequently, please try using Germinal as that no longer requires stocks itself.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:10:28 AM by Rex Dart »

Kane317

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 11:17:44 PM »
Normals

Standing
st. ;a - A quick slap attack, basic poke and fast, stops AA like usual
- Chain/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 25

st. ;b- A simple kick attack that's aimed low
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 30

st. ;c - Thrust punch, has good range so it may start a lot of standard combos
- Cancel-able
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70

st. ;d - Heavy kick, good range but it's kinda slow
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 80

Close Normals
cl. ;c - Upward punch attack, okay range but it's more vertical than horizontal  
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70

cl. ;d - Heavy low kick, mediocre range range so it's not too useful
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 80

Crouching
cr. ;a - It's the same as his st. A except he's crouching now
- Chain/Cancel-able
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 25

cr. ;b - A quick crouching kick, good for running in and poking
- Chain/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 30

cr. ;c - Crouch uppercut, poor horizontal range but great vertical range
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70

cr. ;d - Crouch kick, knocks standing opponents down when hit, whiff cancellable
- Whiff/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 80

Jumping
j. ;a - jump light punch, just a quick hit in the air, good for air-to-air hits and not much else
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 45(40)

j. ;b - jump light kick, has surprisingly good horizontal range
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 45(40)

j. ;c - strong punch attack in the air, a pretty good attack in air-to-air but not as good as his j. B
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 72(70)

j. ;d - The range is good mostly due to how Ash sticks his left leg out further from the rest of his body, good for jump-ins
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 70(68)

Blowback Attack
;c ;d - A hard thrust punch attack, great reach
- Whiff/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 75

j.  ;c ;d  A hard thrust punch attack in the air
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 90(80)

Guard Cancel Blowback Attack
GC  ;c ;d
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 10
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 05:31:17 PM by Kane317 »

Kane317

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 11:17:48 PM »
Gameplay Notes
Ash's play-style is some what of an enigma, he predominantly relies on charge moves but he also has a nice set of moves to zone/combo with. His zoning options revolve around Ventose, Genee, and Thermidor. He can use Nivose and Pluivose for anti-airs, then there's his San Culotte which allows him to do a free style combo to his opponent because of temporary zero charge time, and if that isn't enough he can follow-up with his Germinal DM to seal all his opponents gauges for a brief period. His HD combos can do upwards to 40 to 50+ hits because of the amount of juggle opportunities. His play-style is good for people who like to zone and poke their opponents, however good precision and timing is required for his juggle and Sans Culotte custom combos.

Pros
- Great zoning game
- Amazing juggle potential
- Good pokes
- Long HD combos
- Strong corner pressure
- Can lock the opponents meters for a brief time
- Sans Culotte, coupled with HD combos, adds a whole different dimension of depth to his gameplay for advanced players

Cons
- Jumping normals aren't as straight forward as most characters
- Charging character
- Limited combo potential outside of Drive/HD canceling and Sans Culotte
- Needs the corner for max potential
- A lot of his moves can be punished easily if whiffed
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 05:37:20 PM by Kane317 »

Kane317

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 11:17:52 PM »
Combos

Combo Notation
(HD) - Activate Hyperdrive
(HDC) - Hyperdrive Cance
(DC) - Drive Cancel
(SC) - Super Cancel
(MC) - MAX Cancel
DMG - Damage

No Gauge
- cr. Bx2~3, b+B, d~u+K
- cr. Ax2, b+B, d~u+K
- st. C, b~f+K
- cr. C, b~f+K

No Meter/50% Drive
- cr. Bx2~3, b+B, d~u+K, (DC) b~f+P
- cr. Ax2~3, b+B, d~u+K, (DC) b~f+K
- st. C, b~f+K, (DC) d~u+K
- cr. C, b~f+K, (DC) d~u+K

1 Meter/50% Drive
- st. C, b~f+D, (DC) qcb+2 buttons, b~f+Ax2, d~u+D
- cr. C, b~f+D, (DC) qcb+2 buttons, b~f+Ax2, d~u+D
- st. C, b+B, d~u+B, (SC) qcfx2+K
- cr. C, b+B, d~u+B, (SC) qcfx2+K

2 Meter/No Drive
- st. C, b+B, qcfx2+BD
- cr. C, b+B, A B C D, Sans Cullote combo
- cr. Bx2, b+B, A B C D, Sans Culotte combo

Sans Culotte Combos
- [b~f+B, b+D, b~f+K]xn
- b~f+C, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff, continued below
-- [b~f+D, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff)]x3, b~f+D, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff), b~f+C, b+D, b~f+A, finish combo
- - b~f+A, [b~f+B, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff) b~f+A]x2, b~f+B, b+D, b~f+D, b+B (whiff), b~f+C, b+D, b~f+A, finish combo
- - b~f+A, b~f+C, [b~f+C, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff), b~f+A, b~f+C]x2, finish combo

HD Combos
- cr. Bx2, b+B, [HD] st. C, b+B, d~u+B (1), [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1), (HDC) b~f+Ax2]×3~4, d~u+D
- st. C, b+B, [HD] st. C, b+B, d~u+B (1), [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1), (HDC) b~f+Ax2]×3~4, d~u+D
- cr. Bx2, b+B, [HD] st. C, b+B, d~u+B (1), [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1), (HDC) b~f+Ax2]×3~4, qcfx2+BD
- st. C, b+B, [HD] st. C, b+B, d~u+B (1), [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1), (HDC) b~f+Ax2]×3~4, qcfx2+BD

« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 05:31:53 PM by Kane317 »

Kane317

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 11:22:22 PM »
Forgive me Aenthin, I had to move your post around so we can post the combos etc...

Quick notes:
1. Typos: The name of Ventose isn't listed while Nivose is still using K instead of  ;b / ;d Fixed. Yay
2. While Ash's jump ;d has great vertical reach and can do crossups, despite its animation, it's a horrible anti-air.
3.  ;bk + ;d is much, much faster than ;bk + ;b

I'm not sure if ;bk + ;b is really cancellable though. I mean, you can do Nivose and EX Pluviose at the end of the move but he seems to just simply recover quickly enough for him to connect to them. This is without Sans-Cullottes, btw.

I didn't know far standing ;c was cancellable though. Hmm...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 05:32:25 PM by Kane317 »

TornAparT

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2010, 03:04:34 AM »
Question about Germinal.  Since it seals special moves, would that mean Raiden would lose his charge on drop kicks?

krazykone123

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2010, 03:16:21 AM »
Question about Germinal.  Since it seals special moves, would that mean Raiden would lose his charge on drop kicks?

Yeah, I believe so

Gravelneed

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 04:46:00 AM »
Can Germinal still connect with during San-Culotte combos or does it come out too slow now?

Now that the opponent can't just switch out, there is much more of a reason to use Germinal.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 04:50:49 AM by Gravelneed »

venusandeve

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2010, 01:38:48 PM »
are there any ways to make the enemy eat thermidor? has anyone ever seen this DM been used properly? or is it simply a dud?
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krazykone123

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2010, 03:42:45 PM »
Can Germinal still connect with during San-Culotte combos or does it come out too slow now?

Now that the opponent can't just switch out, there is much more of a reason to use Germinal.

Yes, as it can only be used during Sans-Cullote mode

are there any ways to make the enemy eat thermidor? has anyone ever seen this DM been used properly? or is it simply a dud?

Well the DM has a bunch of start-up frames so your not likely to see it get much use in high level play, I suppose you could use it just before the opponent hits the ground (and hopefully they don't safe roll) to apply wake-up pressure, but it's still kinda hit or miss so I'd probably skip over it and save the meter for other moves.

Aenthin

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2010, 04:30:13 PM »
Well, not really properly as much as it's accidental, but I used Thermidor a few times before and twice I caught it still juggling opponents like it does in XI. Dunno how to set that up properly though.

Still, I think Thermidor is best used as a pressure tool, and for catching people off guard by super canceling it off Ash's Ventose and Genie.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 04:32:21 PM by Aenthin »

Gravelneed

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2010, 10:53:40 PM »
Well the DM has a bunch of start-up frames so your not likely to see it get much use in high level play, I suppose you could use it just before the opponent hits the ground (and hopefully they don't safe roll) to apply wake-up pressure, but it's still kinda hit or miss so I'd probably skip over it and save the meter for other moves.

Yeah, I'm not just gonna skip over it. I was thinking maybe since Ash doesn't have his command move anymore for Thermidor juggle he can use EX Germinal Caprice. That might allow for Thermidor to juggle opponent across the screen like in XI.

Also, maybe this combo works: cr.Bx2, b+B, b~f+K, qcf+AB, SC, qcfx2+A/C

EX Genee might allow enough time for Thermidor to juggle opponent.

venusandeve

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 07:38:59 PM »
does Caprice (b~fK) have any invincible frames or defensive characteristics?
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Ash

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2010, 12:54:45 AM »
Well the DM has a bunch of start-up frames so your not likely to see it get much use in high level play, I suppose you could use it just before the opponent hits the ground (and hopefully they don't safe roll) to apply wake-up pressure, but it's still kinda hit or miss so I'd probably skip over it and save the meter for other moves.

Yeah, I'm not just gonna skip over it. I was thinking maybe since Ash doesn't have his command move anymore for Thermidor juggle he can use EX Germinal Caprice. That might allow for Thermidor to juggle opponent across the screen like in XI.

Also, maybe this combo works: cr.Bx2, b+B, b~f+K, qcf+AB, SC, qcfx2+A/C

EX Genee might allow enough time for Thermidor to juggle opponent.

After b+B his b,f+K is too slow to connect. Might be possible with EX version, but I still doubt it. Also what do you mean by qcf+AB?

does Caprice (b~fK) have any invincible frames or defensive characteristics?

Doesn't seem like it, even with EX doesn't seem like it.

Gravelneed

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Re: Ash Crimson
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2010, 02:23:48 AM »

After b+B his b,f+K is too slow to connect. Might be possible with EX version, but I still doubt it. Also what do you mean by qcf+AB?

Sorry, I meant b~f+K, qcb, +AB, SC, qcfx2+A/C

b~f+C/D doesn't have to connect from b+B. I was just using it as an example. I'm more interested in thinking an EX Genee or EX Germinal Caprice could pop them up long enoughto SC into Thermidor for a hit and possibly juggle.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 11:02:37 AM by Gravelneed »