Andy Bogard (Console)

desmond_kof · May 22, 2012, 11:58:58 PM

Yeah, the only thing is that people need to be really quick with those punishes or else he will block them at the last millisecond...and if they keep failing to punish it, he can just punish them with dp+C.

SPLIPH · May 23, 2012, 08:27:28 AM

even if the player is good at punishing it, i think those high damage punishes are much less worrisome running andy on point.

BioBooster · May 23, 2012, 10:09:55 AM

Quote from: SPLIPH on May 23, 2012, 08:27:28 AM
even if the player is good at punishing it, i think those high damage punishes are much less worrisome running andy on point.

Yeah on point not really a big deal.

Probably most realistic are one button punishes for chrs who have them into HD. That seems viable.

Yeah, I'm talking to you solid

Reiki.Kito · May 23, 2012, 10:13:28 AM

So, I've been trying to do this for a while, but I dunno why it doesn't work.

Anyway, I've been playing against an Andy and they've been doing a full Kuuhadan and covering up their tracks with an EX DP. I know it's not safe so I try to punish it with my d.B. For some reason, it doesn't come out (Like I'm stuck in blockstun), or it comes out and it gets stuffed by the dp.

I've been trying it and it SOMETIMES works, but sometimes it doesn't.

Anybody out there willing to help me beat this fraudulent tactic?

Also, blocking is difficult because they buffer it. If they see me not pressing buttons, they usually try to grab or block.

LAB Falken · May 23, 2012, 10:19:12 AM

I'll run some tests if you like, which character are you trying to cr B it with?

BioBooster · May 23, 2012, 10:20:01 AM

I'll have to do the work and actually test in the lab, but fairly certain that thing's positive on block. solid has cracked me down with it for ages. Now I just try to get the advantage by rolling, or use an invincible move against it.

Reiki.Kito · May 23, 2012, 10:41:59 AM

Terry and K'.

With Maxima, he can just d.C guardpoint and hit him out of any DP.

LAB Falken · May 23, 2012, 10:45:42 AM

Only EX appears to be safe on block. In order to punish it otherwise it seems to be about -4 on block (UNTESTED) off of hcf B (feels like a 1f to punish with K' cr B), off HCF D it's prohibitively unsafe.

EDIT: Same goes for Terry, so I assume his cr B is 4f startup as well.

Reiki.Kito · May 23, 2012, 11:03:24 AM

Yea, it is. So it's literally a one frame punish?

LAB Falken · May 23, 2012, 11:05:46 AM

I haven't completely tested it (attempting to alter advantage by standing during first, second, or third hit and alternating between them), but for the most part yes it appears to be a 1f punish. Perhaps my timing is off, it could very well be a 2f and my timing is off, but I doubt it.

EDIT: After testing with Iori's 3F st C, I feel confident in stating it's a 1f punish for 4F normals (feels loose enough to be a 2F link). So- pretty risky punish attempt for anyone with >3F normals.

BioBooster · May 23, 2012, 11:08:08 AM

Thanks for that falken

LAB Falken · May 23, 2012, 11:14:45 AM

My pleasure, Andy's one of my favourites so it's about time I figured out how that move worked.

SPLIPH · May 23, 2012, 08:52:40 PM

Quote from: Reiki.Kito on May 23, 2012, 10:13:28 AM
So, I've been trying to do this for a while, but I dunno why it doesn't work.

Anyway, I've been playing against an Andy and they've been doing a full Kuuhadan and covering up their tracks with an EX DP. I know it's not safe so I try to punish it with my d.B. For some reason, it doesn't come out (Like I'm stuck in blockstun), or it comes out and it gets stuffed by the dp.

I've been trying it and it SOMETIMES works, but sometimes it doesn't.

Anybody out there willing to help me beat this fraudulent tactic?

Also, blocking is difficult because they buffer it. If they see me not pressing buttons, they usually try to grab or block.

i use this dirty trick myself. but i tend to do it off a kuuhadan brake instead. mostly its when i accidently commit to doing his brake combo on block. other than that its if im having a really hard time opening up the opponent and want to get some extra pressure... it can train them to keep blocking after kuuhadan brake if you nail them with one. personally i find it way too hard to react to whether or not the opponent will go for a punish or commit to block. to me it really feels like a guessing game. overall i think its far more rewarding for the opponent to guess right than andy.

im not sure of a specific tactic to deal with it other than committing more to block. i think dealing with this is the same as dealing with that crackshoot > rising tackle trap you use with terry. as unsafe as full kuuhadan and brake is, i think they are more likely than not to go for it if its in their gameplan, but if they get away with it once or twice they might be holding back if the situation occurs again. its a huge risk. 1 stock wasted and a guarenteed punish if andy guesses wrong. atleast off the kuuhadan brake andy can break a potential throw which seems to be the most common reaction to it. i think toughing it out and blocking some potential extra stuff till you bait it is your safest bet if they are prone to throwing this out.

Quote from: LAB Falken on May 23, 2012, 11:05:46 AM
I haven't completely tested it (attempting to alter advantage by standing during first, second, or third hit and alternating between them), but for the most part yes it appears to be a 1f punish. Perhaps my timing is off, it could very well be a 2f and my timing is off, but I doubt it.

EDIT: After testing with Iori's 3F st C, I feel confident in stating it's a 1f punish for 4F normals (feels loose enough to be a 2F link). So- pretty risky punish attempt for anyone with >3F normals.

is it the exact same off kuuhadan brake? 1-2f punish? i dont think ive ever been stuffed out of it. they either eat it trying to punish kuuhadan brake, or they block and punish.

LAB Falken · May 24, 2012, 03:14:37 AM

I haven't tested brake, so I can't comment. I'll do it some time soon, unless someone gets to it first.

EDIT: The brake is significantly less safe on block, I estimate that it is -6 both versions (tested with K' and Shen normals).

SPLIPH · May 25, 2012, 06:06:47 AM

Quote from: LAB Falken on May 24, 2012, 03:14:37 AM
I haven't tested brake, so I can't comment. I'll do it some time soon, unless someone gets to it first.

EDIT: The brake is significantly less safe on block, I estimate that it is -6 both versions (tested with K' and Shen normals).

holy crap, that is great to know. thanks! is it a lot more reliable to stuff the EX DP? looks like i will only be using this when i screw up a blockstring. or not at all and just hope they go for the tic throw...

haha i dont think ive ever tried this off a full kuuhadan because i assumed it was more unsafe than brake @_@

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Andy Bogard (Console)