Chin Gentsai (Console)

[Kane317]

Turns out that Chin's df B is actually -2, like the arcade version.  *Rejoices*

Is this from max blocked range? I feel that it is range dependent. I've been trying to poke more with far C xx df.B (even as a whiff cancel) but if done at the wrong range, it definitely feels like less than -2.

The frame data man himself, Keykkako, replied with:
―――カントク――― (@Keykakko) tweeted at 1:26 AM on Sun, May 12, 2013:
@DC_Kane317 @ManChest 二起脚1 (df B) is actually -3～+2F,Contact state～tip hit for his 硬直差 (recovery)
(https://twitter.com/Keykakko/status/333498492859318275)

[mechanica]

Turns out that Chin's df B is actually -2, like the arcade version.  *Rejoices*

Is this from max blocked range? I feel that it is range dependent. I've been trying to poke more with far C xx df.B (even as a whiff cancel) but if done at the wrong range, it definitely feels like less than -2.

The frame data man himself, Keykkako, replied with:
―――カントク――― (@Keykakko) tweeted at 1:26 AM on Sun, May 12, 2013:
@DC_Kane317 @ManChest 二起脚1 (df B) is actually -3～+2F,Contact state～tip hit for his 硬直差 (recovery)
(https://twitter.com/Keykakko/status/333498492859318275)

Cool!  I thought it was worse.

I'll definitely have to come up with some stance cancel strings that space it well.

I've been messing a lot more with his 'coward crouch' dd+P stance. It comes out a lot faster than I thought. I forget all the options I have sometimes though like counter/barrel roll... Reset in the corner into it makes close-C-happy characters whiff which is great. To make it less telegraphed you can reset with st.A/C into dd+k, hop back-hop forward-crouch. Quite tricky!

[Kane317]

I'll definitely have to come up with some stance cancel strings that space it well.

Messing around with him some more,  if you do the following blockstring: s.C, d x2+BD, walk forward slightly far C, df B, it'll leave him at the sweet spot with a +1F or +2F adv which is perfect to bait 1F grapplers.  You can either neutral jump afterwards, skip backwards in the kick stance then skip back forward after they try to punish you or just repeat the string again.  

As oppose to the blockstring hcf K, df B...which always leaves you at -2F or -1F.

[mechanica]

Awesome. I didn't think to use the skip back like that. That stance is proving to be better & better. Now to just remember that I can special cancel the crouch when I get it on accident...

Awww man you guys use it more, it setups a whole different layer of mind games.  Do you a) wait and punish middle to high hits? b) Overhead all low attempts if they have some experience playing Chin, c) low counter the low hits, d) throw, e) Ex Flex Punch etc...

I like how frionel lands df.B midscreen and resets with close C xx d,d+B, hop forward, meaty close C. I was wondering how to utilize the unique ability to get close C at any spacing. It feels a lot more active than far C.

The TJ tourney is what reminded me about the +2F adv for the df B; the French do get the credit for utilizing it the best-- 'specially when they play against 1F grapplers like Clark.

[Killey]

So I'm learning Chin to understand the match up more in preparation for a tournament. The Juicebox basic tutorial was a real big help so far in understanding the character. I'm also able to follow what top players are doing with the character in match vids. I have a couple of questions for you guys that main him though.

1) Who do you guys think is Chin's hardest match ups? Why?

2) Is Chin's counter (qcb+B/D) active on frame 1? I'm trying to compare the frame data with Elisabeth's counter which has a start up of 1-16, which I don't quite understand vs Chin's 1 frame start up on his counter. Provided it's not baited on wake up, is this a really good reversal option?

3) What are the quickest ways to exit out of d,d+K stance to try to block?

4) What's the frame advantage after a stance cancelled far s.C and close s.C. I'm not at my console so I can't test with 1 guard jump, atm. Just wondering if anyone knew off the top of their head.

Thanks in advance.

[LazieFreddy]

!)Personally I think the hardest matchups for chin are: Daimon, King, Benimaru, EX Kyo, Ex Iori.

Daimon and King are hard because of their good pokes, especially st.B which hits low and have good range.  Chin gets out poked easily.  In close range, Daimon's grabs beats many of Chin's options.  Against good King players who know the range of Chin's barrel rolls, it's hard for Chin to get in.

Benimaru is tough because of his jump arc.  He can basically vertical/jump back D all day and wait for Chin to make a mistake.

EX Kyo and Ex Iori (and to a lesser extent the regular versions) both rush down Chin very well.  Chin has to be very on point and make good guesses with his options.

2) Chin's counter is 1-frame.  It is a good reversal only if your opponent is predictable since it only counters either high or low (ex version counters both but has very little active frames).

3) Press B+D to cancel kick stance is the fasting way.  Your other options are cancelling it into another special (counter, Ex back fist, Ex roll, etc).

[Killey]

Thanks for the answers.

What do you guys think about Kim vs Chin? I know Evo was a prime example of the match up but part of that was player's mental state.

[Kane317]

1) Who do you guys think is Chin's hardest match ups? Why?

I get asked this a lot.  Generally fast characters: Particularly ones that can punish from farther distances.  So Duo Lon, Ex Iori, Claw, Kyo, Mai, Kim are the few among the top of my head.  Personally I hate a good King as well.

2) Is Chin's counter (qcb+B/D) active on frame 1? I'm trying to compare the frame data with Elisabeth's counter which has a start up of 1-16, which I don't quite understand vs Chin's 1 frame start up on his counter. Provided it's not baited on wake up, is this a really good reversal option?

It depends how you define a good reversal.  Strictly speaking, it's one of the BEST reversals since it's a 1F startup.   Like any good reversal, get too predictable and a good player is going to punish you hard.   His Counters changes the tide of matches either way.

3) What are the quickest ways to exit out of d,d+K stance to try to block?

BD cancel.

4) What's the frame advantage after a stance cancelled far s.C and close s.C. I'm not at my console so I can't test with 1 guard jump, atm. Just wondering if anyone knew off the top of their head.

I believe the close C in the kick stance has the same properties of a regular close C.  If you're not canceling, it's -4 on block.  If you hop cancel off any strong attack you're +17 if I remember correctly.

What do you guys think about Kim vs Chin? I know Evo was a prime example of the match up but part of that was player's mental state.

Personally, I think it's technically 50/50 not factoring in the fact that Kim's a hard opponent to deal with in general.  Chin's good at blowing up Kim's safejump setups and Kim's good at dodging Ex Flex Punch and punishing it with his aerial moves.

[marchefelix]

GuttsCL's Chin stun combo

KOF XIII - Chin: practical stun combo (4PG 2DC)

[Kane317]

That's definitely the easiest stun combo variation I've seen.  However, since the requirements are still 4PC 2DC, that still more than a simple 100% HD combo with 4 stocks as well.  Keep in mind he has 3 stock HD kill combos.

[mechanica]

Does he have 3 stock kill combos without A) being drunk or B) starting with the three hit stance cancel link? (far C -> far C -> far D)? If so, mind enlightening me? I've seen stuff like hop C into that chain into HD into that chain again but I find that rather impractical.

[marchefelix]

Potential infinite:

KOFXIII Chin Infinite?