The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)

[krazykone123]

Win or lose with 3 bars in your stock without using them is a waste too, doesn't it?

It eats your whole HD gauge too, saving 3 stocks for EX attacks is a lot more cost effective than outright using them for a NEOMAX, sure some characters could get by using them (i.e. Shen Woo, Kyo, Robert) but most of the cast get by just fine without using them entirely (mostly for the lack of proper set-ups, and having better options with EX attacks/DM's).

One example is Andy, using a NEOMAX would be a waste of meter compared to all the options he has with EX attacks (hcf+K~BD, db~f+ACx2, dp+P).  Another one would be Vice, she's heavily limited as far as it goes for raw damage and comboing into her standard BnB's, because of that weakness she has to use EX attacks to try and level the playing field, they yield more options/damage etc. This would also apply to Mai since she's lacking in options as well.

[MUSOLINI]

Win or lose with 3 bars in your stock without using them is a waste too, doesn't it?

It eats your whole HD gauge too, saving 3 stocks for EX attacks is a lot more cost effective than outright using them for a NEOMAX, sure some characters could get by using them (i.e. Shen Woo, Kyo, Robert) but most of the cast get by just fine without using them entirely (mostly for the lack of proper set-ups, and having better options with EX attacks/DM's).

One example is Andy, using a NEOMAX would be a waste of meter compared to all the options he has with EX attacks (hcf+K~BD, db~f+ACx2, dp+P).  Another one would be Vice, she's heavily limited as far as it goes for raw damage and comboing into her standard BnB's, because of that weakness she has to use EX attacks to try and level the playing field, they yield more options/damage etc. This would also apply to Mai since she's lacking in options as well.

indeed, something im loving about this kof. man i cant wait to play this shit. im soo hungry for a good fighter that i still play ssf4 sometimes, and i dont even like the game that much. i need my fix man.

2 things im sgtill wondering on are if it would have been better to have nm's be without the use of any HD bar, and normal supercancels not costing any HD bar. but i guess its better this way, being able to do a full hd combo, continuing with the combo with ex moves, and then still finishing it with a nm would be overkill. but normal supercancels costing bar is something i always dispised in kof. at least now it costs hd bar instead of super bar.

[venusandeve]

characters with command grab NMs will use them a bit more frequently. i saw someone doing ash's NM on wakeup (it happened in AI) and it was awesome and wtf at the same time. if you ask me, between going broke on one NM that lands or wasting 3 stock on EX moves, i think i'd go with the NM. of course, every character is different in this aspect.

[MUSOLINI]

also characters can benefit from it like this way. your ash example is a very good one kerel. he doesnt have a grab special, but he can nm. kyo doesnt have a full screen punish, but he can nm. takuma doesnt have an all overcoming aa, but hes got that nm (he could probably do his ranbu as well though).

other characters are too beastly that they can do whatever they feel like k. same goes for oogoshos ralph, a character that has changed from the boring sf style characters into a true bad ass in 13. hes got soo many ways to combo into his ex/dm and nm without going into hd that its fucking crazy.

i wonder if crapcom Capcom (Unnecessary -Kane317) has the same ability to change a character for the better and even make a bitch ass turtle character like guile fun. im guessing they dont. guile fun. im guessing they dont.

[Diavle]

i wonder if crapcom has the same ability to change a character for the better and even make a bitch ass turtle character like guile fun. im guessing they dont.

Capcom is horrendous at change, its like they don't even have the balls to add one new move or make one significant change. In SF4, the majority of the cast basically has no moves. Heck, Ryu even lost a move from 3rd Strike.

SNK on the other hand is excellent in that regard, look at characters like Ralf, Kyo, Iori, Kensou, Andy, Maxima, Chin, the list goes on and on. And this is not taking into account all the changes made over the years before XII/XIII.

[MUSOLINI]

indeed, even though at times horrible (99 terry) but most of the time at least the character has some sort of evolution. fucking guile is still the same damn guile from 1992, and what worked then still works now (another example of how crapcom Capcom sucks at even changing some of the in game systems to have some sort of evolution in in the whole game, not just 1 character). i swear sf4 never would have anyu popularity if it had been 2d. for some stupid reason i dont quite get yet, 3d with horrible art direction (think american comic style or justice league) equals succes. if it had been the same game but in 2d no way it would have sold this much. then again most people hadnt played a fighter in soo liong and jst bought it for the sake of having a fighter, nostalgia or whatever. just look at the difference between the numbers of vanilla and choco.

[sibarraz]

Great another thread going into a tirade against SF IV or Capcom

Seriously,, at times I think that some people are more capcom haters than SNK or KOF fans

[Kane317]

2 things im sgtill wondering on are if it would have been better to have nm's be without the use of any HD bar, and normal supercancels not costing any HD bar. but i guess its better this way, being able to do a full hd combo, continuing with the combo with ex moves, and then still finishing it with a nm would be overkill. but normal supercancels costing bar is something i always dispised in kof. at least now it costs hd bar instead of super bar.

IMHO, this is single most-welcomed change from 2k2UM to XIII.  In 2k2um, I remember finding myself asking, "should I really burn a stock just to cancel?"  Now it just makes sense unless you're saving for HD or NM.

Great another thread going into a tirade against SF IV or Capcom
Seriously,, at times I think that some people are more capcom haters than SNK or KOF fans

Capcom Fighters aren't my cup of tea either but let's be respectful guys; I have edited some posts above in accordance to this.

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As for meter usage/HD discussion, it really does vary on style of play and character more importantly.  Some characters like Ash and Duo Lon (but moreso Ash due to the damage output, 400 vs 480) really benefit using their NM outside of combos.  Often times they are game-changers and due to both characters being relatively offensive, it's a great mixup.  In DL's case it's really the only way to do some decent damage, Ash can fallback on his Sans Cullotte, HD and general zoning games.

Most characters however, it maybe a little bit more flash than useful.  Don't get me wrong, 450 (on average) of damage at one single moment definitely helps a lot, but often times you can achieve the same if not more, with two stocks (maybe 1 drive) with a full combo.  Shen, Iori, Kyo, Vice are great examples of high damaging combos without the use of NM.  Other times, certain characters just work so well with HD (Leona, Shen, Takuma to name a few) that it's almost a waste not to use the drive meter for HD.  Furthermore, most situation that you would be able to use a NM by itself, would mean you could have done a full combo anyways (Ash and DuoLon's are the few exceptions since both of their NM are command throws).

Even still, certain characters like Ash and Iori (I know keep using the same examples but I play against these characters a lot) in particular have both real good NM and have great HD combos so they are extra dangerous to play against in formidable hands--which is why playing Duc is a pain in the ass coz he's equally deadly with both of them and they happen to be on his permanent team.

As for individual playstyles, and I think I've mentioned before, RJ likes to save Shen's stocks (and more times than not he has 5 stocks on the 5th round with him) and he won't hesitate to do 100% combos on you while at the same time, he's equally competent with Shen even if he doesn't have stocks.  In contrast, Duc and my Shen will typically dish as much damage as we can, when we can.

IMHO, XIII really is a refinement of the sum of all iterations of KOFs.  Never have I needed to strategize  so much with bar usage, but it adds a refreshing variety of gameplay.

[sibarraz]

My main grip with XIII is the HD bar, I honestly got the feeling that should have never existed, if you want to cancel a move, 1 stock like the one for ex moves, if you want to enter in max mode, 2 stocks, then you can't overuse some moves, I would also made the max mode time a little shorter

At times you can do stupid combos only with little meter, should be more limited like 2002um, now that's a game where you need strategy to know where to spend your stocks

Honestly all the times that KOF a second meter I found it a failure (XIII, or 2000) the only exception would be maybe XI, in that game the meter system was better designed, but still has lots of errors IMO

[Xxenace]

Great another thread going into a tirade against SF IV or Capcom

Seriously,, at times I think that some people are more capcom haters than SNK or KOF fans

im sure a lot of people are just tired of capcom's antics over the last few years they have kinda disappointed me (and im not just talking about street fighter) 

[MUSOLINI]

its a good thing shibaraz isnt working at snkp, you idea for cancelling seriously sucks.

also if i dont like how capcom or snk handles their franchises, whats that to other people? its a fact that snk buried the SS series after 3. same way that its a fact that capcom isnt able to male a good sf game the game and characters actually evolving. you mean to tell me you seriously cant see how similarly most of the characters are the played? their the same damn way they where back in 91 to 93, where in fucking 2011. 20 fucking years and still basically the same boring formula.

[venusandeve]

the only problem i see with drive cancels is that it's been very randomly determined. K' has an absurd combo which costs no DC and alot of characters have insanely limited options in comparison. as far as the rest is concerned, it works as a pace setter, defining characters as they are. slow or non=rush characters won't pull outrageous combos all the time, and the faster ones will have other draw-backs. or so it should be.

[sibarraz]

its a good thing shibaraz isnt working at snkp, you idea for cancelling seriously sucks.

also if i dont like how capcom or snk handles their franchises, whats that to other people? its a fact that snk buried the SS series after 3. same way that its a fact that capcom isnt able to male a good sf game the game and characters actually evolving. you mean to tell me you seriously cant see how similarly most of the characters are the played? their the same damn way they where back in 91 to 93, where in fucking 2011. 20 fucking years and still basically the same boring formula.

Yeah, because making the game look like 2002um which is like 10 times better designed than XIII really sucks

That's my problem with XIII, lots of cancels combos are like ''repeat 2 moves like 3 to 5 times''

[Kane317]

Yeah, because making the game look like 2002um which is like 10 times better designed than XIII really sucks

To each and his own; I think XIII is definitely a refinement of '02UM.  Especially the addition Ex moves solves the problem of only a handful of characters benefiting from the BC mode.

That's my problem with XIII, lots of cancels combos are like ''repeat 2 moves like 3 to 5 times''

Well I know how you feel, I had this discussion with Duc and I try my best to avoid cancelling in such a manner (repetition of 2 moves) but the reality is that some characters just have no choice e.g. King's HD combo.  Although, some characters have more room for creativity (Robert), there's only X amount of specials that can cancel in such a manner so there's a finite number of combinations that may or may not even link.

In general, it's not XIII's canceling system that you should be disliking, it's the concept of canceling to begin with.  Throughout the years of fighting games, those with canceling systems like custom combos etc...usually have some sort of repetition, I guess you can extend it and say most long combos designed that way.  Personally, although more limited, I prefer the XIII canceling system than XII's seemingly "frameless" whatever-go-combos; the mechanics of it seem more grounded in XIII.

[Diavle]

indeed, even though at times horrible (99 terry) but most of the time at least the character has some sort of evolution. fucking guile is still the same damn guile from 1992, and what worked then still works now (another example of how crapcom Capcom sucks at even changing some of the in game systems to have some sort of evolution in in the whole game, not just 1 character). i swear sf4 never would have anyu popularity if it had been 2d. for some stupid reason i dont quite get yet, 3d with horrible art direction (think american comic style or justice league) equals succes. if it had been the same game but in 2d no way it would have sold this much. then again most people hadnt played a fighter in soo liong and jst bought it for the sake of having a fighter, nostalgia or whatever. just look at the difference between the numbers of vanilla and choco.

Meh, SF4 ain't that bad, at least its fun to watch it in tourneys and major tourneys get held for it all the time in NA (there are other games sure but this is always the main event). If nothing else it sort of brought the fighting game genre back in to light. Sure its butt ugly and will be forgotten the moment SF5 comes out, unlike 3rd Strike which will last years, but Capcom definitely read the market right and made a hefty profit.

Part of why I enjoy watching it may have to do with how many SNK systems it has, like breaking from MOTW (Terry could do DP>FADC>Ultra over a decade ago), invincible back dash from MOTW, combo links that look suspiciously like links and feints from MOTW, Sam Sho's rage meter, Front Ground Step from SVC Chaos etc. So yeah, Dimps being made up of ex-SNK staff denitely shows.

Yeah, because making the game look like 2002um which is like 10 times better designed than XIII really sucks

That's my problem with XIII, lots of cancels combos are like ''repeat 2 moves like 3 to 5 times''

Will have to call bullshit on this, overall XIII has the freshest and most varied combo system of any fighter (yes, ever). Even normal combos look hella cool and unique (like Kim's dash kick combos, Maxima's wall rape, the introduction of Kyo's air Orochinagi, Ralf). Add in DC and HD and the combo possibilites border on the crazy.

Sure flash is nice in HD combos and we have seen lots of combos with little repetition but if I had to learn HD combos for my arsenal in real matches then I would definitelty be going for one's with repetition. Easy to remember and less chances of screwing up.