Tier List

[Saitsuofleaves]

It's not that I don't think Beni's good, he is.  But Bala makes him sound like some kind of unstoppable force, and idk if I'm seeing THAT.

[Reiki.Kito]

Terry is considered low for a number of reasons:

CONS:
--Really bad neutral game
--Poking normals are fairly slow/bad recovery
--Crack Shoot is awful, doesn't hit overhead, bad start-up, and half the cast can crouch under it and stuff his attempts
--Burn Knuckle is awful, bad start-up and unsafe on block
--Power Wave is awful, terrible start-up and tiny hitboxes
--Damage output is bad without Meter/Drive
--Neomax won't juggle consistently at all places on the screen

PROS:
--New target combo helps him with an easy confirm
--Standing D improved, supposedly
--Buster Wolf is still a good DM

Few things I'd like to say is that Terry's cons aren't as bad as you're saying they are and there are more PROs to playing Terry. Even if someone can low B it even some of the best will get hit with Crackshoot unless they expect it, or atleast block it. He has a number of ways to work it into his blockstrings. That's a frame trap. Even if there's a risk involved, it's a huge advantage.

His normal pokes are not slow. Most of his close moves or his st.B are relatively fast. There might be some normals that can beat it, but it's definitely not bad. His st.B has huge range and can poke people even farther than Daimon, and he has really high range. Couple that into being able to cancel into regular crackshoot, EX Crackshoot, Power Wave, or any DM, that's not a bad poke. St.C, st.D even far C are super cancellable and can be used as pokes. St.C and st.D are not bad on block which for some characters could mean a free combo if they don't cancel it.

Burn knuckle is bad on block, but if spaced properly, you can't be easily punished for it.  This is where Power Wave is great. If you're not just using the same string over and over again, you can cancel into power wave which is pretty safe on block, but not so much guard roll (That can be said about a lot of characters though). Outside of a blockstring, you can use Burn Knuckle as a neutral game tool to make people respect your air space and hit them out of it. You can use A burn knuckle as a quick traveling tool. Timed properly, Crackshoot is also a decent anti air that if it juggles, you get some follow up potential. His neutral game might not be the best, but it's not bad.

The only legitimate concerns I have with Terry are the fact he can't do much damage without drive meter and his Neomax is still really dumb in a bad way. Other than that, he's definitely not a bad character and certainly not the "worst".

[Diavle]

It's not that I don't think Beni's good, he is.  But Bala makes him sound like some kind of unstoppable force, and idk if I'm seeing THAT.

Just depends on who is playing the character, I'm sure Bala or someone of his calibur could make him look top. Like you say Kyo is top tier but even though he is a very solid character I can't say I have seen him dominate in tournaments yet. Sure, Reynald shows us some flash via HD combos but that's about it. Same with Goro, he looked so damn good at NEC but Reynald picked him just once against Bala iirc and never did it again at SCR.

So yeah, the console version is still new and I wouldn't place my bets on any one character just yet. There are a lot of contenders for top tier in this game so far, which is simply awesome.

[Terrastorm]

Why do a lot of you guys consider Mature a bad character?

[LouisCipher]

She's not bad, she just has bad Supers.

[Terrastorm]

She's not bad, she just has bad Supers.

Heaven's Gate (qcb,hcf+k) is not a bad super, and Kula's (and really a lot of supers) supers aren't that great either.

[LouisCipher]

Yeah, but Mature's EX Super is pretty bad. She relies more on EX and Hyper Drive though, which means she's not bad at all.

[Diavle]

Heaven's Gate (qcb,hcf+k) is not a bad super, and Kula's (and really a lot of supers) supers aren't that great either.

Kula rocks that drive cancel system like its no one's business, its not so much that her supers aren't good its more that she doesn't need them.

Mature is solid but I don't see anything about her that stands out.

[FlyMike]

I wonder if most of you guys are basing your theories and experiences off online play rather than offline locals, casuals, tourneys.

Not trying to sound like a dick. It's just that alot of stuff sounds kinda ill-informed and limited, or do you all just not have legit Terry, Kyo, etc. players in your area?

I'll come back and check out these types of threads again after console version has a few majors/large tourneys under it's belt.

[Saitsuofleaves]

Well, i'll say this, a majority of people in this topic would probably lose to higher end players, and badly.  Our opinions, to be quite frank, don't mean jack shit as we can get mauled by any character in this game, but to be honest, on a good day, any character can wreck.

Shit won't really gel until a year down the road.  Figuring out the best after a while, quite easy, figuring out how the rest stack up eventually, much tougher.  New things are figured out, new options explored, new things discovered.  Can't be done that quickly.

[Matt Alder]

I am predicting that a year from now Shen will be considered lower than he's generally considered now, and Joe will be considered higher.

I think that right now everyone's impressed by Shen's high damage and high abare, but he really lacks tools to open people up since the console changes. His jump-ins have to be done extremely late (later than most of the cast) if he wants to combo off of them, making him extra susceptible to anti air. His c.B,c.C link is not terribly reliable as it's a very tight link with extremely close range requirements, and his only other decent low option involves having full HD gauge. His overhead is unsafe at all points now, even the EX version. He eats a full combo (often to death) if he attempts any sort of overhead and gets it wrong. So his low options and overhead options are lacking. His grab is solid, but it's not enough to make him high tier. His defensive options without meter? None. He's pretty much completely free to pressure against if he doesn't have at least the meter to guard cancel. I would like to say he's middle. He has pros and cons, and when your only pro is "lol damage", then that's not good enough, because the entire cast can deal crazy damage.

Joe is a fairly complex character with potential that's not been tapped, particularly in the corner combo department. Just wait a few more months and I'm betting that people will have figured him out a fair bit more. Right now I think people just compare him to Hwa, and he's not as strong as Hwa, but he's still got some tools that Hwa does not, like zoning.

That's my rant. Certainly lots of characters will be shifting around the tier lists over the next 6 months, but those are my predictions right now.

[Saitsuofleaves]

Except...Joe's Corner Combo hasn't really changed since Arcade, and until now we've seen, what, maybe a few Joes can actually use his corner crap to its fullest potential.  To do perfect mash inputs multiple times, and have it be a different number of inputs every so often is extremely tough to keep up.

But you are right in the assumption that Joe will probably look a lot better later as more people learn to actually use him. 

[Diavle]

Joe is a fairly complex character with potential that's not been tapped, particularly in the corner combo department. Just wait a few more months and I'm betting that people will have figured him out a fair bit more. Right now I think people just compare him to Hwa, and he's not as strong as Hwa, but he's still got some tools that Hwa does not, like zoning.

As has been commented by Dune, Joe's corner combo is still legit, the problem is the change in meter gain your opponent gets when hit in the console version. Doing these combos that last forever is just going to fill up your opponent's power gauge in no time.

As for Shen, he will always be considered strong. His damage output is just that good, and the main difference between arcade and console is the loss of the guard break on the charge punch. That's about it, not like anyone spammed those overheads with him before. If you look at the arcade version matches you will see that his overall game plan is still valid in the console version. Heck he even got a great buff in the form of the cancellable command grab (which lets him do a really easy and really short 100% combo in the corner using HD and 4 bars).

[LouisCipher]

Well, i'll say this, a majority of people in this topic would probably lose to higher end players, and badly.  Our opinions, to be quite frank, don't mean jack shit as we can get mauled by any character in this game, but to be honest, on a good day, any character can wreck.

Shit won't really gel until a year down the road.  Figuring out the best after a while, quite easy, figuring out how the rest stack up eventually, much tougher.  New things are figured out, new options explored, new things discovered.  Can't be done that quickly.

True, but the Kuroda defense doesn't quite work. Just because a top player can easily destroy one of us scrubs doesn't mean that bad matchups and handicaps still don't exist.

[Saitsuofleaves]

Well, i'll say this, a majority of people in this topic would probably lose to higher end players, and badly.  Our opinions, to be quite frank, don't mean jack shit as we can get mauled by any character in this game, but to be honest, on a good day, any character can wreck.

Shit won't really gel until a year down the road.  Figuring out the best after a while, quite easy, figuring out how the rest stack up eventually, much tougher.  New things are figured out, new options explored, new things discovered.  Can't be done that quickly.

True, but the Kuroda defense doesn't quite work. Just because a top player can easily destroy one of use scrubs doesn't mean that bad matchups and handicaps still don't exist.

I wasn't trying to use the Kuroda defense at all.  I was saying, most of us in this thread have absolutely no business talking about a tier list when we'd get destroyed by any really good player using any character.  Lower level players, we probably get beat by characters that are better while requiring a lower level of entry.  We don't really have the experience or the ability necessary in order to properly deduce a tier list.

Like me for example, what right could I possibly have to say I know as much as a Bala or someone on his level?  I haven't played on his level or his level of competition as much, I haven't faced as much variety, I haven't played the game as long, so what point is my opinion compared to someone like him?