Athena Matchup Discussion

Kirah · December 10, 2011, 09:33:04 AM

I figured i'd start this thread so that Athena fans could help out the idol in her trials and tribulations through combat. So without further a do, let us begin.

Ash
This is a favorable match up for Athena , because she wins the projectile war simple numbers. Every one projectile Ash throws Athena gets two or three if EX reflector is used. Keep your distance and play the ranged game, no need to put yourself in harms way. Stay alert and look for Ash's Ex projectile, though reflecting that can definitely set him straight. Eventually the Ash will have to come forward, simply due to chip down damage from Athena's and Ash's projectiles combined. If the Ash starts to approach from the air A Psycho sword works nice or back jump CD to push him back and start your zoning game. In closer proximity, far standing D does nice and can tag out of the air on a short hop.

5B, and 5A of course are answers, just keep calm and be aware of your spacing with your psycho ball zoning. Closer you are the less the Ash can throw projectiles since he'll be getting hit by his own, just pay attention to his meter as EX projectile can knock you down and give him the advantage which you always want him on your terms.

Edit:
Playing this match-up a bit more, I noticed how fast Athena actually recovers from A psycho ball. You can get away with throwing this out and not have to worry about retaliation from Ash's EX projectile. You can still block and return fire.

Saiki
This matchup is an even easier Ash matchup since he doesn't have an EX projectile, simply reflect and stack on the plasma. A psycho sword of course is great, but can be baited by Saiki J4B so keep that in mind. In the corner Saiki's Super projectile can keep you lockdown tight and chip your life. Though this match isn't as hard as the Ash matchup.

Elisabeth
As every matchup with Athena, it's all about patience though one has to be careful as the more you zone the more you feed the ElisaBeast. 236A absorbs your projectiles, though space has to be taken into consideration since you can be punished by Elisabeth 623A/C/EX series which leads to a down for her plus oki. Playing really solid and safe is only your best option, since her option in every level of the fighter ie: Offense, Defense, and Neutral is more in her favor. In an air to air full jump back CD can tag her if the Elisabeth is getting overly aggressive which she shouldn't be in neutral.

You truly have to be patiently annoying, play solid and safe as this battle can turn sour quickly.

Iori (Claw)
This battle is pretty straight-forward zone him though he has a few tricks he can use to get around Athena's zoning. Such as 214BD which is fast and blows through her plasma, also his EX maiden masher can punish her projectiles. Just pay attention and keep him zoned and this battle should be over before you know it, within normal range be careful since his normals out range you and are really well suited to out poking and can give you a lot of trouble.

Iori (Flame)
Another straight forward match-up with a little twist ,which is Iori's C projectile. It's extremely fast so you have to pay attention to it. Though it's excellent to reflect, because at most distances Iori is still in recovery so he'll get hit by it. Then there's another projectile heading his way so this is a really annoying battle for Iori. Also his EX projectile is way slower then his C, so you can reflect it without much to worry about just don't get hit or you'll be stuck and he can run up and combo you easily. Though Iori using it outside of combos is rare, it's still the second week of his unveiling so who knows what new technology will appear.

Another thing that makes this battle easier, is that he doesn't have EX moves that'll go through your projectiles aside from his EX dp though that's quite unsafe if blocked.

Kula
This chick can be annoying, since she has a reflect of her own and longer normals namely 5B, 2B , J.B. Just keep yourself aware. You can throw A psycho balls from longer ranges and remain safe from reflect retaliation. You surely have to vary your psychoball timing from A~ C to keep her guessing and hopefully confuse her so that'll she'll get hit trying to reflect. Though you'll do more normal zoning then plasma zoning, Far 5D works great since it goes over 2B, the real problem is 5B, because it's wayy better then Athena's since it hits crouchers. Even 2D, you have to play really careful or you'll be eating a disgusting combo.

Also on 2B spamming Kula's which is all of them if you roll passed them or cross them up which most Kula's use 2B to shrink themselves and anti air the game will auto-correct and convert to slider shooter which is punishable and which can be grabbed on start up. I'll be performing more tests to get around her BS so i'll post it when I find it.

Leona
This match-up isn't too hard, just have to stay aware of Leona's positioning . Air to air situations she's hard to take on head to head, but I find Jump back CD, a good tool universally to keep her out besides 5B, 623A, and 5A. In closer proximity Leona can use grand sabre to punish Psycho Ball startup though that's a risky maneuver but still and option. Once she has more than a meter, her jump-ins are a lot scarier due to the threat of Vslasher. In closer proximity her normals out class yours by a mile. Her 2D is a serious threat as it goes under your 5D it shrinks under your jump normals so you have to be careful.

When in the corner her long reaching normals keep you locked down it's especially hard to escape that situation with moonslasher a foot. A lot of her normals also push her forward and can poke you out your escape attempts so this a position where you don't belong.

Emperor Paine · December 13, 2011, 11:31:12 PM

Good to know, thanks

Kokujindayo · January 05, 2012, 09:19:11 PM

What are some good air to air normals that Athena has while going against the majority of the cast. It seems like she gets beat by anything, maybe I'm just not doing the right type of jump?

chrischunli · January 16, 2012, 08:31:02 AM

Quote from: Kokujindayo on January 05, 2012, 09:19:11 PM
What are some good air to air normals that Athena has while going against the majority of the cast. It seems like she gets beat by anything, maybe I'm just not doing the right type of jump?

Neutral jump CD, hop CD, sj.D, lol.

Mikel · January 30, 2012, 06:25:39 AM

Thanks for this information. It will help me on future Athena matchups since I main her.

LazieFreddy · May 10, 2012, 07:48:19 AM

Does anyone have tips for the King matchup? A lot of people assume this matchup is in Athena's favor, but I'm having a lot of trouble with it for a few reasons:

1. King's light fireball only travels limited distance, so it is futile to reflect back.

2. King's EX fireball pretty much guarantees her win in fireball wars.

3. King's jump CD beats Athena's jump CD clean.

4. King's pokes are superior to Athena's pokes.

Emperor Paine · May 16, 2012, 11:31:48 PM

Quote from: LazieFreddy on May 10, 2012, 07:48:19 AM
Does anyone have tips for the King matchup? A lot of people assume this matchup is in Athena's favor, but I'm having a lot of trouble with it for a few reasons:

1. King's light fireball only travels limited distance, so it is futile to reflect back.

2. King's EX fireball pretty much guarantees her win in fireball wars.

3. King's jump CD beats Athena's jump CD clean.

4. King's pokes are superior to Athena's pokes.

*sighs*
It sucks to say, but King is just a better version of Athena.
Your gonna have to play it smart man, because King holds the same tools as Athena but better.
I would suggest working the baits for fireball heavy kings. Get her to jump in and open her up with dp's.
Watch the jump ins for Kings trap shot, especially upon knockdown. I've found many Kings will rely on ex trap shot.
Bait that junk, keep heavy corner pressure, and piss them off by snuffing out all projectiles.
Play it cool, ex teleport out of sticky situations, and happy hunting

Reiki.Kito · May 16, 2012, 11:44:59 PM

If King's a good fireball character, why don't you just play Athena differently?

If she jumps in at you, you've got a viable anti-air. Athena's Phoenix Arrow, the light version, is difficult if not impossible for King to punish without meter. Even with meter, she can't actually punish you before you block. You can string in a d.C after and keep her locked down once you're in.

Getting in, you have an EX teleport that's completely invincible. You get up to her and cancel it with your command grab for free. You can do that! Instead of trading fireballs or playing the fireball game, be the grappler and aggressor. You don't have to play King's turtle game. On knockdowns, you can even mix it up. You teleport behind them to sweep. You can teleport in front of them and stagger your three frame command grab. I also believe it's start up invincible so you can just get in her face and command grab her. Mix it up and just keep her guessing. She doesn't have much if you're always mixing her up and guessing which side you'll teleport in.

Saitsuofleaves · May 16, 2012, 11:56:01 PM

Actually, as far as I remember, B Phoenix Arrow is like...-2. While you're right, King can't punish it at all, that's only if Athena decides to just sit there and block, or wait and Command Grab. If Athena decides to press buttons, King's st.B or cl.C at the least should beat hers out.

Though again, this all depends if Phoenix Arrow is -2.

LazieFreddy · May 17, 2012, 12:14:54 AM

Yeah phonenix arrow is -2 on block, not really a good move for pressure if King knows what's she's doing.

And in general I find it hard to dp king, she can change her jump arc any time with air venom strike. On top of that her hyper hop has a low arc, making it hard to reaction dp.

Ex teleport to get in is a good idea, but it is hard to build meter at the start of round without getting hit. King and Athena more likely than not are point characters.

Using teleport for mixups after knock down is an interesting idea, I have to experiment with it more...

Once I get in near King, it is still difficult because of King's superior buttons....

Reiki.Kito · May 17, 2012, 07:04:25 AM

Quote from: LazieFreddy on May 17, 2012, 12:14:54 AM
Yeah phonenix arrow is -2 on block, not really a good move for pressure if King knows what's she's doing.

And in general I find it hard to dp king, she can change her jump arc any time with air venom strike. On top of that her hyper hop has a low arc, making it hard to reaction dp.

Ex teleport to get in is a good idea, but it is hard to build meter at the start of round without getting hit. King and Athena more likely than not are point characters.

Using teleport for mixups after knock down is an interesting idea, I have to experiment with it more...

Once I get in near King, it is still difficult because of King's superior buttons....

Her d.C is very fast. You can likely beat her if they don't press st.B the first second they get out of blockstun. Generally, it looks like you can punish it on paper, but that's testable and you shouldn't always assume they know the right answer the first go around. Test them and see. If they let you get away with it or they don't time their response fast enough, short of an EX Trapshot, you've got them.

Saitsuofleaves · May 17, 2012, 07:10:28 AM

It's not hard to time honestly. Once people start figuring out that Athena's active frames for moves tend to end before the visual effects, she becomes a lot less scary.

LazieFreddy · May 17, 2012, 07:30:19 AM

Yeah, if people don't know the matchup it makes my life a lot easier. But against good players, we should always assume they know how to punish or will learn fairly quick. I played Chris G the other day at drive cancel, and it literally took him only one game to figure out.

Reiki.Kito · May 17, 2012, 08:27:23 AM

If the fastest thing King has is st.B, wouldn't Athena's far st.D go over it? Also, couldn't you just DP if you know they're gonna try to punish it?

LazieFreddy · May 17, 2012, 09:42:59 AM

No, close D would come out instead. Besides, most people who knows the matchup usually just mash close C/D to punish on block. I usually do the same to preemptively tech throw, but that's when the meta game kicks in. At that point, people could mash dp or cr.b to beat my close C. If I see this coming, I could dp/dm to counter them. That's basically the basic meta game of Athena. Anyway, these situatuons don't happen that often with the King matchup because it is very difficult to get in on her in the first place.

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Athena Matchup Discussion