Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread

[powerfercs]

Andy got a bit of buffing namely chainable stand B>stand D, better jump D and f+A getting a hitbox buff so it will properly connect to stand C, faster NeoMax, and Chou Reppadan damage buff nerfs are pretty minor with EX Kuuhadan losing invincibility and slower sweep I think that Andy's placement in the tier list is because the characters got some improvements that severely changes the matchups despite Andy's solid buffs and little nerfs from the arcade. Robert is purely utility with Fireballs, DP, Command Grab, a GOOD AA Command normal f+A, Weak Hienshinpukyaku comboable from d+B d+A. But his damage potential is lacking he is mid tier material for me since I use Robert.

[Frofighter]

Andy got a bit of buffing namely chainable stand B>stand D, better jump D and f+A getting a hitbox buff so it will properly connect to stand C, faster NeoMax, and Chou Reppadan damage buff nerfs are pretty minor with EX Kuuhadan losing invincibility and slower sweep I think that Andy's placement in the tier list is because the characters got some improvements that severely changes the matchups despite Andy's solid buffs and little nerfs from the arcade. Robert is purely utility with Fireballs, DP, Command Grab, a GOOD AA Command normal f+A, Weak Hienshinpukyaku comboable from d+B d+A. But his damage potential is lacking he is mid tier material for me since I use Robert.

I mostly want to follow up on this because discussion has been non-existent here recently, and also because of how much good I've heard about Robert. So many top players have touted him as being amazing, including the Bala/Romance/Answer tier list, yet I'm not sure why this hasn't transitioned into him seeing more play yet. Many of the higher-ranked characters on that list have seen a healthy amount of play and provided back-up to why they've been placed where they are. However, Robert is a character that still hasn't shown up. Kensou is also a rare sight, though I do get why he's been placed where he is.

[hiltzy85]

I also don't really understand why Robert is considered top tier.  Yes, I agree 100% that he has a lot of tools, but his damage really isn't overwhelming.  I've tried really hard to find some kind of corner juice that lets him get over 500 for 1 stock, 1 drive, but it just doesn't seem possible.  The other characters in the A+ are monstrous in the corner.  He doesn't get super damage midscreen, either, although his meterless midscreen combos are probably above average.  I just don't see why he is so much higher than say...Andy. 

[Aenthin]

I don't think Robert's higher than Andy or Kyo. I believe he's just slightly lower. The thing is though, he's probably the only character I know who could adapt to almost every single fighting style there is, be it a rushdown, a zoner or even a grappler (kind of). Also, it's not so much about getting the most damaging combos as much as hitting them consistently, and Robert has an awful lot of ways to get in.

I think that's really the thing about Robert. You have to keep anticipating his every move, else you'll get punished a lot.

Edit: Also, this is best tier list.

[Frofighter]

I don't think Robert's higher than Andy or Kyo. I believe he's just slightly lower. The thing is though, he's probably the only character I know who could adapt to almost every single fighting style there is, be it a rushdown, a zoner or even a grappler (kind of). Also, it's not so much about getting the most damaging combos as much as hitting them consistently, and Robert has an awful lot of ways to get in.

I think that's really the thing about Robert. You have to keep anticipating his every move, else you'll get punished a lot.

Edit: Also, this is best tier list.

Agreed (both on Robert and that list!)

So.... Now that we've seen Reynald give everyone a good Mr. Karate tournament primer, what does everybody think of him? Personally, as scared as I was of him at first, I've been trying to find where the holes in his spacing and offense are, and how you have to play him differently because of the counter and his air hienshippukyaku. The counter seems to make him completely destroy characters that pressure with projectiles. For example, I think Joes struggles a LOT in that match-up. That being said, with Bala's choice of Shen to take care of the match-up, is the answer to Mr. Karate having big normals and keeping him grounded?

[Dandy J]

agree on robert. he is solid, has all the tools except an overhead, but his damage is low for the meter he has to spend on it. he has a combo ex grab but it scales so hard. his damage is good but not great, and midscreen combo options are very simple. in a lot of ways he is like benimaru but benimaru is better in almost every way.

mr karate is strong for sure. candidate for #1, no weaknesses.

[hiltzy85]

that tier list is whack.  Vice should be a lot closer to Mai. 

[BioBooster]

Agreed (both on Robert and that list!)

So.... Now that we've seen Reynald give everyone a good Mr. Karate tournament primer, what does everybody think of him? Personally, as scared as I was of him at first, I've been trying to find where the holes in his spacing and offense are, and how you have to play him differently because of the counter and his air hienshippukyaku. The counter seems to make him completely destroy characters that pressure with projectiles. For example, I think Joes struggles a LOT in that match-up. That being said, with Bala's choice of Shen to take care of the match-up, is the answer to Mr. Karate having big normals and keeping him grounded?

I see Mr. Karate showing up in more and more tournaments. His safeness, counter ability, damage output and crazy pressure are proving quite bauss. I'd be interested in seeing what can be done to punish his fb counters from long range where your chr will be able to move for when he shows up...think this is worth exploring.

He's looking quite beastly atm.

[Ky0]

I see Mr. Karate showing up in more and more tournaments. His safeness, counter ability, damage output and crazy pressure are proving quite bauss. I'd be interested in seeing what can be done to punish his fb counters from long range where your chr will be able to move for when he shows up...think this is worth exploring.

He's looking quite beastly atm.

hahaaa, this!
Sadly, I think ClassicKyo top place is now over! But, say hello, Mr.Karate! xD

[BioBooster]

^Yeah I'll be keeping an eye on karate.

Another chr worth bringing up again:
So many in NA feel that Leona's pretty low.

Interesting thing is Japan doesn't think so at all. I wouldn't mind seeing her a bit more in tourneys. The KCE vid on her presents her as being pretty darn solid.

[Dandy J]

if you block in time for the fireball counter you can just do training mode on him

[The Fluke]

if you block in time for the fireball counter you can just do training mode on him

If you block the EX counter? his regular projectile counter has him warp in without an attack but he still seems to get some invincibility so i dunno.. Might just have been online screwing with me but it seems that you should either just block when he comes warping in or gamble on an invincible reversal.

[Dandy J]

oh i meant the ex. normal one doesnt have any vulnerable frames though depending on the distance and recovery you may be at advantage

[Kane317]

mr karate is strong for sure. candidate for #1

[nothingxs]

Going from recent tournament results, and in general how the game has progressed since the last tier list, I'd like to propose:

A+: Mr. Karate, EX Kyo, Saiki, Kyo, Iori, Benimaru, EX Iori
A: Clark, Goro, Shen, Yuri, K', Hwa Jai, Kensou, Robert
B+: Andy, Ryo, King, Ralf, Kula, Takuma, Chin, Billy
B: Kim, Duo Lon, Ash, Mature, Vice, Elisabeth, Raiden, Maxima, Leona, Mai, Athena, Joe
B-: Terry