Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread

[davidkong07]

LOL Mad KoF agrees with me that Robert sucks! haha I am now officially gonna be a low tier hero.    (^_−)☆

[SPLIPH]

i have a really tough time against robert myself. i feel pretty free against any decent robert. why does he suck so bad? what do i capitalize on in the match that makes him incapable of being a good character?

[Hyun Sai]

Well, MadKof also said they considered Billy sucked and changed their mind after EVO, so nothing to worry about.

[selfReg]

Robert "just sucks"? SMH.

[Hungry Color]

I don't agree with Robert sucking, he has everything needed and then some. also I'm pretty sure he is the only character with a walljump, not that that is a game changer or anything, but it's something to consider.

[Reiki.Kito]

I don't agree with Robert sucking, he has everything needed and then some. also I'm pretty sure he is the only character with a walljump, not that that is a game changer or anything, but it's something to consider.

Mai also has a wall jump.

[Great_Dark_Hero]

Here are two tier lists that I made... This is the best I can come up with as of now, but things will change in due time.

This is my basic KOFXIII tier list:
http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/kof13/index.html#ya0-tr782r8x4e5lf7dtc1c9ae794e78ibanah78f7787cc82scaf78w2r8zc15l2s90ai8xf6cbc0al4f8w7bdtaf7ac37baianc1h6ae5mc3amf65mai5licfgc1fhagc87c5k7c5l4fak7cak2s-bk8

Here is another tier list:
http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/kof13/index.html#ya0-trl94gjl2scpcdhu8acp8ted2soje1mvaijle0g98bec6nece2cp2redaimx2sjjail8cdg8aiaf2rg82p9v8thwcdcpai87ahojcdmwcd6jahojaiedfql7aijkcejh8bjl4gl92smy4fol2t-bkg-naGDH%20

[Tyrant292]

David' I also dont think that Robert sucks. He can confirm his hit, he has a command grab, he has an anti air, good wake up, good normals, good air CD, has a cross-up and activates HD easily.

Maybe I am missing something here, I mean you played him alot could you explain please why you think that robert sucks?

[choysauce]

the fact that robert and mai have wall jumps are pretty significant considering how corner pressure works in this game. if they jump back you have to guess, are they gonna wall jump or just jump back? being able to jump that high and still have options is really good.

they also said athena is low tier. pshhhh. i don't think so. someone just needs to show them a good robert and athena! that's all.

[davidkong07]

I've said it before, there are lots of reasons why robert's tools are all mediocre:

His A uppercut lacks lower body invincibility. His C uppercut, although invincible, starts up slowly and can easily be safe jumped.

His command grab does not convert to combos. It is also slow and lacks any invincibility. His EX command grab scales everything extremely hard, to the point that it's not even worth using, unless you do it raw in the corner.

All of his far standing normals whiff on crouchers, except st. D. Stand D has horrible recovery. This makes Robert's midscreen footsie game risky in every instance, as he either has to commit to a fast low (A or B) or risk getting hit by a low if he throws out st. C or D.

His fwd A. is completely unsafe on block. As time goes on and people learn how to punish, this tool will become harder and harder to use.

His dive kick is completely unsafe on block unless you hit them at the ankles. The practicality of this move for offense is just non existent as of right now, unless you use the EX version. Even at the ankles, no version of his dive kick grants frame advantage.

All versions of his flying kick are unsafe, although most characters require meter to punish the B version. All versions of lighting legs are also unsafe. On hit, EX lighting legs gives the opponent over 50% meter and close to 50% drive (WTF??). Even though you can drive cancel his regular lighting legs, THEY DON'T GRANT A JUGGLE STATE and Robert has no anywhere juggles (srsly, WTFF???). When you think about it, although he has lots of tools, many of them simply aren't that great. The ONLY special move he has which is consistently safe on block is his point blank fireball, which you must cancel into.

His midscreen HD combos are ridiculously space positioning specific. He has optimal combos at every range, but these combos change and won't work if you are one character length left or right of exactly where you should be. The only combo that works at all ranges within 80% of the stage away from the corner involves using EX lighting legs. He has no coast to coast HD. Doing this combos give the opponent 2.5 bars and 70% HD meter, which is ridiculous. It simply requires wayyy more effort to optimize his HD combos than it does for ANY of the top tier characters. Also, I don't want to complain about execution, but his drive cancel dive kick from C uppercut is quite hard, and easy to screw up. So are his C uppercut drive canceled into A fireball and midscreen A uppercut drive canceled into A fireball for juggles during his HD. These cancels are all NECESSARY for his optimized HDs.

His wall jump is really cool, but when people start anticipating it (and they definitely do!), you really can't use it for mixup. No matter if you just jump back or jump back wall jump, either way people can jump with you and hit you, or just stay on the ground. My training partners can attest to this. It's one of those tools which, like his fwd A, will become less useful as opponents become better at punishing it.

These are all the reasons Robert sucks. Obviously, even in this game being bottom tier still means you're viable. I'd put Robert in the low B range in terms of tier. With this said, he has some awesome things. His j. CD has so much horizontal range and is soooo fast, although it whiffs on crouchers. His sweep is also fast and has great range. His EX ranbu super is also gdlk because it's invincible. Of course, who doesn't fucking love taco crossups? However, when you consider these "good tools", they still pale in comparison to many other top and high tier characters.

There you have it people, that's my full blown opinion on Robert. I'll still play him, just because i've invested so much time into him. But, imo, anyone who says "robert is a great character" is wrong. He's mediocre at best.

[davidkong07]

And also, I agree with Choysauce about Athena. Athena is fucking cheap as shit, fuck that character. Possible secret top tier, imo. The only reason I believe this is because of Team Chaos Yoshi lol that guy's Athena is CHEAP!!!

[Diavle]

Meh, his only glaring weakness is HD. Even then you can land a piss easy 800+ damage combo if you have three bars.

A lot of unsafe moves? That can be said about a lot of the cast (especially Kyo). Reminds me of Musolini complaining about console Kim because he didn't have any safe spammable moves (like his QCB+B in the arcade), we all saw how that turned out for Kim. Ignored at first but pretty much top tier now.

Safe jumpable DP? Say hi to most of the DPs in the game.

Sounds like you want a broken character (all his tools plus having them safe plus having high damage off everything) instead of what we have now , a balanced one.

[Tyrant292]

Thanks for the break down David. I agree with Diavle here though. Yes' Robert is lacking in many ways but if they made him safe in most of his specials he'll be broken. The only thing that needs correction and thats "if" it needs correction is that he builds his opponent's meter quite alot. Thats my opinion atleast.

P.S. his hit confirm (cr.b, st. a or cr.a into frw.b) Is really good IMO you can start HD quite easily with that.

[davidkong07]

Meh, his only glaring weakness is HD. Even then you can land a piss easy 800+ damage combo if you have three bars.

Mind telling me what combo this is? And does it work midscreen? I find this hard to believe, as someone who has spent tons of hours trying to find optimal HDs with Robert.

[Diavle]

Mind telling me what combo this is? And does it work midscreen? I find this hard to believe, as someone who has spent tons of hours trying to find optimal HDs with Robert.

Works anywhere, HD and 3 bars:

jD, sC, f+B, DP+A or C [Super Cancel] Ranbu, Neomax (max cancel on final hit of Ranbu)

If you want a bit of extra damage then you can DC into a fireball after the DP before super canceling into Ranbu.

Over 800dmg iirc. Can also be started via lows using the hit confirm Tyrant mentioned above and also using just low Bs.