Balance issues and constructive suggestions

[JeremyH]

difference is that the kyo combo is only possible in corner. iirc that is.

I can see your point with that specific combo, but Kyo still has mid-screen options that will net him similar damage, I was mostly looking for an example with a very similar input option. 

Again though, when comparing their movesets, their damage, and overall options, it really seems like Kyo should come out on top.  I also believe arguments could be made for the other characters I mentioned. 

On the subject of K' and Raiden, I don't think anyone can really argue against Raiden.  K' I think could use some tweaking, but I don't think anyone playing 2k2UM now is really surprised by his strength, since he's also really beast in that as well.  The main difference that I see is that, in 2k2UM, you can usually pick another character to counter a good K' (King for example).  So far in 13 there doesn't seem to really be a counter to K, although I'm sure we've all seen the occasional Beni or Andy win. 

[Shiranui_ninja]

So far in 13 there doesn't seem to really be a counter to K, although I'm sure we've all seen the occasional Beni or Andy win. 

I remember Kane winning Duc's K' with Mai :D

[Rex Dart]

difference is that the kyo combo is only possible in corner. iirc that is.

I can see your point with that specific combo, but Kyo still has mid-screen options that will net him similar damage, I was mostly looking for an example with a very similar input option. 

I'd also like to point out that Kyo needs to drive cancel rdp+B into his DM. Also, Kyo's df+D and qcf+K moves are much less safe on block than Betty's f+B or uppercut.

It's not too hard to come up with a few examples of how a high-tier character has advantages over a top-tier character, but I don't think you could convince me that Kyo is actually stronger overall than Elizabeth.

[venusandeve]

because Kyo and Andy are mostly used by better players, unlike Raiden which gets picked by everyone wanting a cheap win.

[Shinra Shiranui]

The only thing i can say about the whole Raiden dropkick(Balanced or unbalanced) is play smart and use your tools to defeat him because despite of that good move he can still be beat from what i seen in some vids. But this is just what i think.

[Zabel]

Yes, maybe sibarraz has the point when says no one of us should talk about rebalance except those who play the game. But I remember Answer saying "nerf Raiden's drop kick, then I will play again that game" (I guess he was kidding, because he actually play it xD, but I guess he was not joking about Raiden's buff).

I think drop kick is the real problem with Raiden, but if it's not the only one, then nerf him more, in general.

At this point it's pretty apparent you know very little about Raiden.

[Kane317]

So far in 13 there doesn't seem to really be a counter to K, although I'm sure we've all seen the occasional Beni or Andy win.  

I remember Kane winning Duc's K' with Mai :D

Maybe a meterless K', but once Duc has meter then his K' is a pain in the ass; it'll require me to use Chin against him and even that's a tough match up.

[t3h mAsTarOth...!]

You do realize nerfing his dropkick won't make him any less of a godlike character right?

of course he would still be a strong character, but it would actually change his game play entirely... he would need to rely on meter to do damage... not get up to 8 DKs per round to use which all do 200-250 damage each and cost no meter and connect from anything...

take out DK... and suddenly we won't see anymore Raiden... just like where did all the faithful Mature/Joe/Goro/Takuma players go?

i still agree that he should still keep his DK cause it's a special feature to him... just make players work for it... (1 chargeable at a time) (every 8-16-24-32 seconds) (100-250 damage) = fair...

[krazykone123]

where did all the faithful Mature/Joe/Goro/Takuma players go?

They're picking Raiden and K', because they want to win.

[MUSOLINI]

And in general, I think damaging scaling should be rebalanced.

no, the damage scaling is perfect in this game. best damage scaling ever in a fighter imo. and i still stay by my point, the 4 are too strong.

[Zabel]

You do realize nerfing his dropkick won't make him any less of a godlike character right?

of course he would still be a strong character, but it would actually change his game play entirely... he would need to rely on meter to do damage... not get up to 8 DKs per round to use which all do 200-250 damage each and cost no meter and connect from anything...

take out DK... and suddenly we won't see anymore Raiden... just like where did all the faithful Mature/Joe/Goro/Takuma players go?

i still agree that he should still keep his DK cause it's a special feature to him... just make players work for it... (1 chargeable at a time) (every 8-16-24-32 seconds) (100-250 damage) = fair...

You seem to be missing the point that it's not the dropkicks that make it ridiculous but the ability to juggle afterwords with a EX Shoulder Tackle. The DKs themselves are fine.

[MUSOLINI]

no, ex shoulder makes sense. it seems you dont get it, its an ex.

[Diavle]

No, the drop kicks are not fine. They do stupid damage, use no meter, set up more combos, can combo into each other, can combo after a CD counter, have anywhere juggle and have invincibility to go through anything (which means its very dangerous to zone him with fireballs etc). Aside from that BS they are also in the arsenal of a grappler, so, while the opponent is busy trying to avoid and bait drop kicks, which often times results in turtling and holding back, Raiden gets ample opportunities to get his grab and grab super on.

[Rex Dart]

Raiden keeps reminding me of this line:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWrbP-tD1ew#t=11m18s

"Just don't get drop kicked."

[Shiranui_ninja]

At this point it's pretty apparent you know very little about Raiden.

This is not about how much I know about Raiden. It's about thanks to all these bunch of vids with K' and Raiden, people, some kof fans other potential console buyers/players, are saying "KOF XIII is a broken and unbalanced game,", and about if SNKPlaymore is going to try to fix this or not for console version and future arcade updates.

the decision to nerf Raiden and how is not mine, so to know little or not about Raiden is not the point. what I'm saying is that Raiden is one of those 4 that need to be nerfed in some way to contribute a more balanced game. And I'm not the only one saying this.