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Messages - Kane317

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76
Not really sure what's really happening in the USA scene for KOF, tbh, but I remember when TRB use to get 40+ players and now they're struggling to get 20 participants.


In all fairness, we hit 40 like once or maybe twice.  In the 30s like 4-5 times.  The rest hovered in the 20s and teens depending on time of year.  So if you consider TRB on every week for the last year plus, it's not easy to maintain high numbers every week...

77
Duo Lon / Re: Duo wiki building thread
« on: May 22, 2013, 10:05:39 PM »
s.A
Fair anti hop tool, slower than the crouching version but further range and meatier with slower recovery. Will whiff on crouching opponents (Please investigate if this is true for ALL characters) leaving you open to low hit punishes or low combo starters. s.A is the same animation and properties as the close A version.

That I will need to check but I don't see why not...maybe the exception would be big characters such as Maxima, Goro, Raiden etc...

s.B
Hits low, can only be canceled into a special move, command normal. Cannot be canceled into any other normal .More meaty than standing A

Small nitpick, Duo Lon doesn't have any command moves.  The move list image for Duo Lon lists his f A and f B as command normal, when in fact, they are special moves.  Much like a tomato which shares characteristics of both a fruit and a vegetable, both have Ex versions which are trademarks of a special move yet allow you to free cancel into a special off of it.  Confusing.

s.D
Slower than standing C but covers all the way to Dou Lon's head, allowing you to use it as an anti-hop at times.

Is it slower?  The frame data from Keykakko says it's both 5F for startup.

j.CD
Great air to air or air to ground tool, covers his mid and mid-low profiles, cannot be punished by Trip guard if done low enough. Fast and special cancelable move which allows guard break pressure and can be combined with f.A or f.B or their EX versions

The term trip guard is constantly misused (this isn't to single you out Sir Octopus, everyone does this).  In a nutshell, Trip Guard is the ability to Guard the grounded opponent's trip.  It describes the jumper, not the character that is on the ground.  In KOF I think we just call it anti-air d.B, it's a lot clumsy than saying trip guard, but more accurate.  

f.A
Duo Lon’s preferred mid-range poke, slow startup, and good range of about ¼ of the screen. Will whiff on crouching opponents that do a low hit (d.B, d.D) and has slow recovery as well as a large hurt box. It is special cancellable but cannot activate HD from it.

Small nitpick again (sorry): I want to say the range is closer to 35% of the screen, it's pretty far.

f.A EX version
Faster startup. Does 2 hits instead of 1. Second hit pulls them towards Duo Lon regardless of on ground or aerial opponent. If aerial, it will allow great cross up potential as Duo Lon recovers before the opponent hit’s the ground, giving you the high/low mix-up, cross up or Kara canceling his cl.CD into reverse rekkas.

I tested it on the aerial opponents after you typed this up, and it only pulls them closer if the tip of his hand hits them, if they land on anywhere else of Duo Lon's stretched hands, it only hits them once and does not pull them closer.

f.A Aerial version
Faster startup and recovery. Only horizontal hit detection. Do not use it to anti air jumping forward, only on neutral or back jump. Good for combo extensions and hit confirming when doing a jump it with j.B

It cannot be overstated how good of a zoning tools this is for him, it controls space that almost no one else can, certainly not as well as he can.

air.f A EX version
As fast as the normal version and same amount of hits. The only real advantage over the normal air version is that it hits opponents out of air invincibility, such as Vice’s EX whip or Hwa Jai’s EX Dragon kick.

Otherwise known as "Anywhere juggle".  Problem with this Anywhere Juggle, no move can juggle AFTER it, rendering it somewhat useless (except using another EX air.f AC).  It's ok at best at setting up ambiguous crossups but most players can see it coming a mile away.

f.B EX version
Faster, almost instant startup and faster recovery. Same hit detection but hits opponents a little further of the ground than its normal version. Cannot be dodged by running.

It's true you can kinda use it as a ghetto anti air from afar.  If the opponent is close to you it will always knock them away from you, if they are mid to far away it will always knock them towards you.  In term of the hitbox, it seems like the hit detection was merely shifted upwards instead of extending upwards--case and point: the f.BD will completely whiff (!) Chin's d x2+P punch stance lol.

qcb K EX version
-   Same overall properties as the forward version. Also, you can cancel the animation with f.A, f.B or their EX versions at any moment in the animation.

WOW!  I did not KNOW you can do a f.A.  Learn something new everyday.

78
Duo Lon / Re: Duo wiki building thread
« on: May 22, 2013, 09:18:18 PM »
Sir Octopus' two cents on Duo Lon's move set:

Here's Duo lon. Feel free to spell check, edit, or prove what I wrote on trining mode or whatever. Make sure all the info is correct and post at will.

s.A
Fair anti hop tool, slower than the crouching version but further range and meatier with slower recovery. Will whiff on crouching opponents (Please investigate if this is true for ALL characters) leaving you open to low hit punishes or low combo starters. s.A is the same animation and properties as the close A version.

s.B
Hits low, can only be canceled into a special move, command normal. Cannot be canceled into any other normal .More meaty than standing A

s.C
Same animation and properties with close or far version. Good guard of middle to low middle and high middle profile, does not trade with hits above Dou Lon's head or low hit detections. Standard combo starter as it has plenty of active frames allowing you to easily activate HD into the bypass slide.

s.D
Slower than standing C but covers all the way to Dou Lon's head, allowing you to use it as an anti-hop at times. This one, as opposed to standing C, drives you forward instead of only pushing back the opponent, so it's better when possible to start with it since it will guarantee all rekkas will connect (qcf.A/C)

d.A
Your main combo starter for BnB combos, fast, safe on hit or on block and easy to confirm one after the other. You can spam it every once in a while, just don't be under the impression that it cannot be challenged.

d.B
Slower than crouching A, longer range, more meaty and by definition, more active frames, which allows you to activate HD that much easier than crouching A

d.C
High vertical hit stretching about 3/4 of the screen. Has too many active frames, although the animation stays there a while, only the first couple of active frames can be canceled, much like you would see in Iori's close C, whereas you can only cancel the first active frames even though you still have active frames after that, same with Dou Lon. Slow recovery and no horizontal hit box added outside of what you can see. Good anti hop only when predicting a jump in, fair anti air, but has more of a hurt box than a hitbox. Don't overuse it, mostly punishable.

d.D
Long sweep, not too slow at startup but has some recovery time. Fair range.

j.A
Fast air jab, only covers minimum vulnerable area in his mid-section, low and high profiles exposed. Only use it as an air to air when you really have to as it doesn't do much damage and is not worth trading with.

j.B
A quick air to ground horizontal spike that serves as a good combo starter as the actually hit box is below Duo Lon's body. Fair air to air, but jumping C is preferable.

j.C
Great anti-air that covers Duo Lon’s mid, mid-high and mid-low sections, still, it does not cover his high or low profile, so only use it air to air. Can be special canceled into f.A or f.B or their EX versions

j.D
Same overall angle as j.B but with a greater hit box all around, it can be used to cross up opponents but only in exact situations. This is his only move which cannot be special canceled in the air, unless you are in HD mode. Then and only then would it be wise to use j.D into f.B for greater confirmation time.

j.CD
Great air to air or air to ground tool, covers his mid and mid-low profiles, cannot be punished by Trip guard if done low enough. Fast and special cancelable move which allows guard break pressure and can be combined with f.A or f.B or their EX versions

f.A
Duo Lon’s preferred mid-range poke, slow startup, and good range of about ¼ of the screen. Will whiff on crouching opponents that do a low hit (d.B, d.D) and has slow recovery as well as a large hurt box. It is special cancellable but cannot activate HD from it.

EX version
Faster startup. Does 2 hits instead of 1. Second hit pulls them towards Duo Lon regardless of on ground or aerial opponent. If aerial, it will allow great cross up potential as Duo Lon recovers before the opponent hit’s the ground, giving you the high/low mix-up, cross up or Kara canceling his cl.CD into reverse rekkas.

Aerial version
Faster startup and recovery. Only horizontal hit detection. Do not use it to anti air jumping forward, only on neutral or back jump. Good for combo extensions and hit confirming when doing a jump it with j.B

EX aerial version
As fast as the normal version and same amount of hits. The only real advantage over the normal air version is that it hits opponents out of air invincibility, such as Vice’s EX whip or Hwa Jai’s EX Dragon kick.

f.B
Slow startup, slower recovery. Still fast enough to combo from a light and to link a
s.C or d.A from it. Does chip damage and hits standing or near grounded opponents. Hits walking characters but not if they dash, so you can actually be punished about more than half screen away very easily.
An important note: Recovery properties change when drive canceled into, it has slower recovery. In the corner, you can do f.B and link a cl.C afterwards, but, if you do rekka and Drive cancel into f.B you will not be able to link a normal hit. Any questions you can contact Sir Octopus on the forum via PM.

EX version
Faster, almost instant startup and faster recovery. Same hit detection but hits opponents a little further of the ground than its normal version. Cannot be dodged by running.

Aerial version
Decent startup, awesome range and angle. You can hit confirm your j.B into f.B for a ground combo that much easier. His whole leg acts as a hurt box as well as a hit box, has low priority so don’t try to challenge normals with it.

Aerial EX version
Faster startup, same hurt box and hit box. Does longer guard stun and hit stun, allowing you to do it near hop startup and still be able to land and confirm with a ground normal.

qcf.A or C (P=punch)
His “Rekka”. Much like you would see with EX Iori’s doing qcb.P x3 or EX Kyo with qcf.P. Duo Lon as the same property with qcf.P. We’ll cover this one at a time
-   First rekka
Fast, really fast. Covers Dou Lon’s upper and mid body with a huge hit box. Not many characters can punish it without at least spending meter, and in most cases 2 meters. You can abuse it against certain characters freely. Drive cancelable.
-   Second rekka
Drive him forward which is not the best place you want to be in this case, less safe than the first one and likely to be punished. Has a time limit on which you can hit with this one after you anti-aired with the first rekka. Drive cancelable
-   Third rekka
Severely punishable. Hit box goes well above Duo Lon’s head. If the second rekka misses the anti-aired opponent, this one will always hit. Special cancelable into his forward teleport without drive meter. Drive cancelable.

EX version
-   Fist rekka
Faster and longer range than the normal version. Does not hit a soft knockdown airborne opponent. Can be free canceled into any special move.
-   Second rekka
    Faster and longer range than the normal version. Longer hit stun. Does hit a soft knockdown airborne opponent. Can be free canceled into any special move.
-   Third rekka
Faster and longer range than the normal version. Does hit a soft knockdown airborne opponent. Can be free canceled into any special move.

qcf.b or D (K=kick)
-   B version
Vulnerable from startup to end. Your best follow up after the third rekka since most characters are unable to punish it without spending meter or 2 at in some cases. Can be punished meterles in this scenario by any character with a 1 frame command grab, King’s D Tornado Kick and a couple more characters.
-   D version
On its own it can be done after a couple of hits in order to disorient the opponent, and it is a great mobility tool. After the third rekka, since it does take longer to come out than the B version, it can be used to throw off the timing if you know for sure that you’re getting punished or to escape some of the normal punished. Keep in mind you can be normal thrown out of it.

EX version
-   Invincible startup and mid frames, punishable recovery. Travels faster but shorter than the B version. Faster recovery. It can be used to escape from some of the punished that would beat the B teleport. Play with it to see what you can get away with.

qcb.K
-   B version
Same overall properties as the forward version. Slower. Also, you can cancel the teleport with f.b or the EX version at any point of the animation.
-   D version
Same overall properties as the forward version. Slower. Also, you can cancel the teleport with f.b or the EX version at any point of the animation.

EX version
-   Same overall properties as the forward version. Also, you can cancel the animation with f.A, f.B or their EX versions at any moment in the animation.

79
Chin Gentsai / Re: Chin Gentsai (Console)
« on: May 12, 2013, 07:09:03 AM »
Turns out that Chin's df B is actually -2, like the arcade version.  *Rejoices*

80
Chin Gentsai / Re: Chin wiki building thread
« on: May 12, 2013, 07:08:33 AM »
Turns out that Chin's df B is actually -2, like the arcade version.  *Rejoices*

81
Chin Gentsai / Re: Chin Gentsai Videos
« on: May 06, 2013, 05:22:09 PM »
So many hits man. I'm actually working on getting 4 s.C, s.D into HD but having trouble with the pad controller.

3 is plenty enough :)

YouTube user  GamersGaming4Gamers posted a great compilation video of Chins practical combos:


82
Chin Gentsai / Re: Chin Gentsai Videos
« on: May 01, 2013, 05:23:46 PM »
And another version from the same guy

83
Duo Lon / Re: Duo Lon Video thread
« on: April 24, 2013, 10:15:50 AM »

84
General Discussion / Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
« on: April 23, 2013, 11:16:29 AM »
And would appreciate it if the K' and leona videos could get frontpaged since Vice and Elisabeth got frontpaged. :)

Done.

85
Ex Iori (Flame) / Re: Flame Iori's video thread
« on: April 18, 2013, 09:40:10 AM »
Taiwan's Yang Yao Ren demonstrates the timing for Flame's infinite:

86
Ex Iori (Flame) / Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« on: April 18, 2013, 09:38:24 AM »
^ Going to post that in his video thread.

87
Ex Iori (Flame) / Re: Flame Iori's video thread
« on: April 08, 2013, 09:17:01 PM »

88
Ex Iori (Flame) / Re: Flame Iori's video thread
« on: April 08, 2013, 09:12:46 PM »

89
Character Discussion / MOVED: EX Iori (Flames)
« on: April 08, 2013, 09:00:26 PM »

90
Shen Woo / Re: Shen Woo (Console)
« on: April 02, 2013, 06:39:35 PM »
Just wanted to ask anyone here that might be able to do this consistently but I'm having trouble hitting the command grab into charged qcf+C in the corner consistently.

I find I get the non charged version alot as well as charging for too long and completely whiffing but are there any ticks or visual clue that people use to get the timing right? Any old thing that helps you get it more consistent would be great.

Thanks loads  :)

During the HD combo right, well you can usually visually see it but a tip that I do with sound it to wait until Shen grunts "UHHHH....." If there's no game sound to your access then after the command grab after doing 236 ;c, hold it for the bare minimum then continue the sequence. This shouldn't take too much practice (less than 15 minutes in training mode) as it's just a matter of timing so just grind it out & you should be ok. Always remember that there's always the change of human error so no one lands everything 100%.

Sorry Malik, It's not that I don't know the technique for it, it's that it just never seems to connect (maybe 1 in 20 attempts if I'm lucky) but maybe if I explain the problem I'm having it'll make more sense.

When I do st.C, f+B, HD st.C, f+B, grab I try to do qcf+C and charge it as you have figured out from my bad explaination before (sorry about that). If I try to input the qcf+C early and hold it to make sure I HD cancel on the earliest frame it messes up my charge time although, I can visually tell when he has charged enough. There seems to be a wierd point in between the initial punch (with 60 damage) and the charged version (for 80 damage) where you get the speed of the 60 damage version but 80 damage but I can't seem to hit that point at all really. Either way I know I probably just need to try and find that point consistently but I can't at the moment, I would probably find the audio clue useful but my speakers are broken so unfortunately that tip isn't getting me anywhere lol

Just want to confirm a few things though, I assume you do have to HD cancel at the earliest possible point after the grab right? If so do you use the hold button techniques or do you try to aim for the exact frame to HD cancel on? Also, can you do this point blank in the corner or does it have to ranged like the grab into qcf+D combo?

Guess I've got to keep on going on that one then  :(

I personally don't use the hold button technique, I just practiced the timing until I got comfortable with it, to each it's own. Also you can do this point blank in the corner as well (I thought it wasn't possible until I practiced a few times to realize it actually is) & the timing feels no different to me.

Hey RobocopTwo, it's been awhile.

I know what you're talking about and I could never get that combo to work, the Shen 3 stock HD kill combo (I know there's floating around but that is spacing specific).

Also I am curious if it's specific to Takuma and probably Terry since IIRC in the arcades, that's who
Shen could do a free non-drive canceled juggle off the command grab, in the corner (fall differently?)

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