Messages

61

General Discussion / Re: The NEW 50% Character Thread (Tables and Voting on Page 1)

« on: February 14, 2012, 08:23:07 AM »

You really don't use drink as a reaction for Hwa, I don't understand why it would be seen that way. You should just be drunk at all times, there's absolutely no downside at all. Basically a situation where you could get one drink in with Chin, Hwa can take his drink, but rather than creating that situation 5 times, he only has to create it once.

I've actually started combos a few (not many, as it's quite risky) times by exploiting the HUGE number of invulnerable frames on Hwa's drink. You can basically just go through many pressure tools or certain oki setups with drink and then recover before the opponent and start a combo with c.C or whatever (think GGXX Dragon Install, for GG players). For example I've gone through Kula's Ice Breath and Maxima's Vapor Cannon via drink (it has more invulnerable frames than his shoryu, even) and punished with a free hit.

I never said not to include the Chin combos, I'm just saying that they should be taken with a grain of salt, as they are indeed possible, just not likely to be seen. Hwa's powerup SHOULD be basically turned on for 90% or more of the match, whereas Shen doesn't quite start matches with CABC and then go looking for a combo and then instantly activate CABC again when it ends, and Chin doesn't immediately power up to 5 drinks at the start of the match. Hwa SHOULD in fact drink at the very start of every round and stay near permanently drunk, and he doesn't even lose his powerup when he gets hit.

As far as theoretical combos go, I don't think anyone's damage can match Chin, so go ahead and list that crazy potential. I mean, it's in the game, so it certainly counts. I just don't want people to get afraid that Chin is broken because he can get some ridiculous 900 damage combos for 1 drive and 1 stock or something. He will have the highest numbers in the whole thread, most likely, but I still wouldn't classify him as the most cost-effective character in the game in terms of actual play. It's pretty easy to say that the throne for that one belongs to Takuma and Hwa.

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General Discussion / Re: The NEW 50% Character Thread (Tables and Voting on Page 1)

« on: February 13, 2012, 09:12:45 PM »

Well, they are real combos, and totally worth being listed in here, just don't expect to ever get one off in a real match, since it's just quite a lot more preparation than any other combo listed in the thread so far.

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General Discussion / Re: The NEW 50% Character Thread (Tables and Voting on Page 1)

« on: February 13, 2012, 05:39:29 PM »

5x drunk Chin is not terribly common, to be fair. I mean, I have Hwa drunk basically at all times. Logically it costs less than nothing since Hwa gains back extra meter while in drunk mode.

Be that as it may, unless you're doing the drink super mid combo, you have to find two openings to do the drink super and then land the combo which changes everything.

I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Why two? Hwa's drunk mode lasts 15 seconds and pretty much all of the combos posted are under 5 or 6 seconds, why would you need a second drink mid-combo? If your drink wears out, just end the combo early with DM. Every single combo that I've posted can be stopped mid-loop to be finished with DM and is quite easy to confirm. Even if you don't land a hit, during your 15 seconds of drunk mode, due to safe pressure and pokes you'll gain back about 2-2.5 meter during those 15 seconds.

But I did post a combo that has a mid-combo drink in it, after a stun. The 100% stun Hwa combo does have a re-drink in it, but you can still do that one so long as you land a hit within 6 seconds of having a drink... just don't start it after that long.

The main difference being that Hwa needs under 1 second to get his power up mode (which has invulnerable activation, by the way), whereas Chin takes around 4? You sacrifice oki up to 5 times and have to basically not get hit for almost the entire round, whereas Hwa can literally just take one drink at the very start of the round and he's ready to start pressuring and comboing.

I mean, go ahead and post 5x drink Chin combos, they're absolutely legitimate combos, I just didn't think they were terribly viable, but maybe I'm wrong. I just thought the whole point of this thread was to show potential with low resources, which I just don't think includes elaborate setups like unrealistic numbers of drink powerups.

64

General Discussion / Re: The NEW 50% Character Thread (Tables and Voting on Page 1)

« on: February 13, 2012, 08:22:03 AM »

5x drunk Chin is not terribly common, to be fair. I mean, I have Hwa drunk basically at all times. Logically it costs less than nothing since Hwa gains back extra meter while in drunk mode.

65

Ex Kyo / Re: EX Kyo (NESTS)

« on: February 11, 2012, 08:00:01 AM »

EX Kyo's qcf+AC~qcf+A~qcf+P~B/D can wall bounce the opponent on counter hit but only if the B/D(Kick) connects first.

On another note i think i found a combo that best utilize one stock and Drive.

j.2C, j.2C, cl.C, qcf+D~D, qcf+C,(Delay), qcf+A~qcf+A~B/D,(DC), qcf+BD, qcf+C,(Delay), qcf+A~qcf+A~B/D
1Stock and 1Drive
The first juggle with qcf+A's rekka must be done slowly in order for the EX upkicks to hit twice. This combo does very close to half health damage, deals good amount of stun, and can be done midscreen. If you want more damage you can always use his 63214+BD or 214236+A/C after the EX upkicks. Let me know what you guys think.

That's an interesting combo, I never tried DCing the B/D rekka ender into qcf+BD. Nice find. I guess in the corner the theoretical better damage meterless ender be qcf+A, hcb+A, A? Or does that not work for some reason?

66

Andy Bogard / Re: Andy Bogard (Console)

« on: February 08, 2012, 09:30:44 PM »

f,hcf+P, then K quickly. Adding in the hcf+K isn't really a shortcut at all. That's just more work than doing a proper DP and then the proper hcf+K input.

67

Andy Bogard / Re: Andy Bogard (Console)

« on: February 08, 2012, 06:41:21 AM »

Yes, that's the shortcut. That's how I do it, it's much much much easier than doing the inputs normally.

68

Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: February 05, 2012, 07:25:39 PM »

TNT Punch in combos adds damage, stun, and meter gain. The damage added is really low and scaling means that sometimes, your combo won't do the max damage possible, but for the extended drunk combos, the added stun and meter is good. In addition, EX TNT Punch gives you a way to combo into Dragon Dance midscreen without using any Drive, so it's kinda convenient to have sometimes.

If you're drunk you can do EX TNT punch and link to qcb+Bx3 into dragon dance, actually.

69

Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: February 05, 2012, 03:49:17 AM »

B dragon tail is -1 or maybe worse. You can be grabbed after it for sure.

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Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: February 05, 2012, 02:56:10 AM »

It's his only safe block string ender actually.

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Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: February 04, 2012, 09:21:29 PM »

TNT Punch gives a limited juggle state. You can connect with anything you like, as long as it's fast enough. Once they fall a certain height, they can't be juggled.

In most cases with these combos, you are better served using regular DM instead of EXDM. The damage difference is usually negligible (maybe 40 points max) and the extra bar left over would be much better saved for more drunk shenanigans or keeping a Backbreaker in your pocket.

Example:

DP+D Drive cancel air QCB+D, QCB+D, QCB+Bx3, QCF+A, DP+B Drive cancel QCB+D, QCB+D, QCB+D, QCB+Bx3, TNT Punch in the corner, ending with regular DM here will do 820, while EX DM does 862.

Now, if you save the bar, your opponent only has about 180 life left, so a single basic combo or a Backbreaker will end them. If you used the extra bar, you got 42 extra damage, but you don't have the Backbreaker option available. This limits your options somewhat, both offensively and defensively.

Yeah, in real matches I actually barely use the EXDM, it only comes out a couple frames faster, which there's never any real need for except for linking it after a dp+D anti air. It's almost always better to save that meter, and Hwa's damage is already disgusting without it. I just throw in the EXDM when I'm trying to go for the most damage possible, if I don't think that the DM itself will kill, but the extra 80-100 damage from the EXDM will do the trick.

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General Discussion / Re: The NEW 50% Character Thread (Tables and Voting on Page 1)

« on: February 04, 2012, 07:45:30 PM »

I would just like to say that every single Hwa combo that I've posted in this or the previous thread (aside from the death stun combo) is one that I have used in actual matches before, so they are not exactly impractical.

If you want a light starter combo, I'll throw in another low light starter combo.

Hwa (drunk):

1 drive, 2 meter (builds 1 back) cr.B, cr.B, s.B, d/f+B, dp+D, [DC] qcb+B, qcb+B, qcb+B, qcb+B, qcfx2+BD - 664 damage, starts low, a million years of time to confirm, works anywhere.

1 drive, 2 meter (builds 1 back) cr.B, cr.B, s.B, d/f+B, dp+D, [DC] qcb+D, qcb+D, qcb+B, qcb+B, qcb+B, qcf+A, qcfx2+BD - 706 damage, starts low, also super easy to confirm, corner only.

easy mode combo:

2 meter (drink+grab) cr.B, cr.B, s.B, d/f+B, qcf,hcb+A - 409 damage, easy confirm, works anywhere, oki setup.

Another practical non-jump-in setup:

off an invulnerable shoryu, drunk, as usual

1 drive, 2 meter (builds 1 back): dp+D, [DC] qcb+D, qcb+B, qcb+B, qcb+B, qcf+A, qcfx2+BD - 735 damage, corner only

1 drive, 2 meter (builds 1 back): dp+D, [DC] qcb+B, qcb+B, qcb+B, qcb+B, qcf+A, qcfx2+BD - 645 damage, works anywhere.

I know, I know, sorry I've kinda been overloading this thread with Hwa stuff... he's just got so many tools and he's simply FUN to combo with.

Here's some Claw Iori stuff to balance it out a little bit more, I guess?

0 drive, 2 meter: j.C, c.C, d/f+C. qcb+AC, qcb+A, qcb+A, qcf,hcb+A/C - 558 damage, or can use EXDM for an extra 1 meter cost and 629 total damage. Corner only.

0 drive, 1 meter: c.B, f+A,A, qcb+C, qcf,hcb+A/C - 341 damage, starts from a low, or can use EXDM for an extra 1 meter and 431 total damage. Works anywhere.

1 drive, 2 meter: j.C, c.C, f+A, qcb+B, [DC] hcf+A/C, dp+C, qcf,hcb+AC - 569 damage, works anywhere.

0 drive, 2 meter: j.C, c.C, d/f+C, qcb+BD, qcf,hcb+A/C - 491 damage, works anywhere, can use EXDM instead for 1 extra meter and 581 total damage.

1 drive, 1 meter: j.C, c.C, d/f+C, qcb+B, [DC] qcb+C, qcf,hcb+A/C - 482 damage, works anywhere, can use EXDM instead for 1 extra meter and 571 total damage.

0 drive, 2 meter: j.C, c.C, d/f+C. qcb+BD, qcb+A, qcf,hcb+A/C - 525 damage, corner only, can use EXDM instead for 1 extra meter and 608 total damage.

I love Claw, gets so much without any drive.

73

General Discussion / Re: The NEW 50% Character Thread (Tables and Voting on Page 1)

« on: February 04, 2012, 07:16:13 PM »

Yes, I rather like this thread. It shows that a few characters (Hwa, Maxima, Takuma, etc.) are far more cost effective when they don't use HD mode, showing their potential as a 2nd or 3rd on a team. Also it is in fact mentioned in the notes when something is started from a low, for the most part.

74

Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: February 04, 2012, 10:40:08 AM »

dp+D, [DC] qcb+Bx4, dp+B, [DC] qcb+D, qcb+D, qcb+Bx3, EXDM is 824 and you gain back 1.9 stock for the combo, works literally from anywhere. So if you started that combo with just 0.1 stock you could finish with EXDM.

dp+D, [DC] qcb+D, qcb+D, qcb+Bx3, dp+B, [DC] qcb+D, qcb+D, qcb+Bx3, EXDM deals 855 and builds up 2.2 stock. You build more than it even costs. This is pretty do-able in real matches actually. When you have somebody cornered, you can pressure with far D and far B into d/f+B, and if they try to do anything to get out of the corner, hit them with that D shoryu. It's got LOADS of invulnerable frames, so you can use it to go through some ridiculous stuff, like Goro's dp+D or most other reversals.

Yeah, that's pretty legit. I was already doing a variation of the first combo. I can't seem to do 4 B Dragon Tails after the DC though, so I just settle for 3 including the DC. Not a huge difference in damage. The 2nd combo is legit but you might want to add a note saying it's corner only.  For me I can get about 816 damage and 72 stun. Pretty massive all things considered.

I tend to get drunk (god that sounds awesome) and D SRK them everytime they jump or throw any kind of projectile. Works pretty well. I might even run Hwa 3rd and Billy 1st and Clark 2nd.

Yeah, I also run Hwa last on my team (EX Kyo or Andy, Claw Iori, then Hwa), all the meter and drive he can get helps him out, though as 2nd he certainly has enough to deal some broken damage. He's really got nothing in terms of combos if he has no drive and can't get drunk. His tools are lacking too, neither of his shoryus have invuln and he can't end his combos in knockdown or with any setup for oki. His pressure is also less safe.

Basically it seems to me that all sober Hwa is able to do is poke with his kicks and his stand or air CD and play keepaway until he has the meter he needs to get drunk. It's his only real flaw, aside from this I would call him the strongest middle or anchor character in the game.

EDIT: Note that drunk D shoryu as anti air works well, but it's extremely hard to get the DC to j.qcb+B to work every time, since various characters and heights require different timing. If you have the meter for it, you can rely on dp+D linking to EXDM as soon as you land if your dp+D hits anti air. It costs 0 drive and deals tons of damage (off the top of my head I would bet somewhere in the 400 range). It works anywhere, but it's easier to link in the corner. Also pretty sure you can do regular DM in the corner, not sure about midscreen.

75

General Discussion / Re: KOF 13 Patch Review Video

« on: February 03, 2012, 07:12:33 PM »

Oh, to add on, you actually can make a lobby to allow others to connect to you, and you can do training or arcade mode while you wait, but as far as I know I don't think you can decline players once they connect to you.