Messages

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General Discussion / Re: KOF XIII 6th General Thread: Console Released edition

« on: November 27, 2011, 04:39:03 PM »

So I'm wondering if there is any way to improve my connection, the few matches I've had were hard to play through.

The sad thing is speedtest says thats faster than 84% of the US. Great infrastructure we have here 

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 27, 2011, 04:25:50 PM »

Yes, but anyone wanting to feedback to Atlus needs to do it too.  It's not enough just to say online isnt working well for them, because a host of other factors could be present.  Its more meaningful to report back that KOF isnt performing as well as other games.

exactly, which is one of the main reasons that im streaming so much - so that there is some kind of record of the common problems. I mean if I seriously got contacted by someone at SNKP, yea best believe i would provide them with a good amount of data including traceroutes, etc. but again, japanese company (not the language barrier part, but i know jp devs are extremely stubborn)

As for rewriting their netcode, I certainly agree that it's not a realistic expectation.  But I think the difficulties are more economic/political than technical.  I'm still puzzled why SNK continually sticks with GSS when it has been proven to underperform in past titles. (at least in the west... I vaguely recall hearing something about it being tied to a special service in japan?)

hard to say..like i said earlier in this thread, all the devs (including NRS staff which i asked) all say they cannot use rollback style netcode since this generation of games maxes out the current gen consoles, leaving no CPU/GPU left for ggpo style rollback...Ponder on the other hand says its possible, just need strong netcode to be built from day 1 not the other way around.

i think its a combination of economic and politics in house as well as technical issues for sure, and they obviously did not hire any network engineers in the US..if they did they would have figured this out right away. (obviously im spectulating here, but seriously, did they do quality tests in the US?)

Not to mention the fact that RollCaster shows us that a single person can implement a rollback netcode onto a game that doesnt even support online play, without access to the game source even.  Yes, the technical challenges are different with KOF13, but none of us can really say just how different it is.

Heck, given that GSS seems to be middleware of some kind, a fantasy scenario would be those guys getting their act together and writing a new version of their libraries with big improvements, and then all SNK has to do is get the new files and recompile hahah.  Fantasy indeed.

Like I said, the most practical and useful first thing to ask for, is for more data on the inner workings of the netcode to be displayed so we can understand whats going on.

 
Rollcaster is amazing, but yea, thats either here nor there. Wouldnt be able to know unless SNKP showed someone the sourcecode which i really doubt they will.

The first step is though to get the community to rally behind a universal message that the netcode is subpar in the first place. Unfortunately, some ppl are in denial and I'm having trouble even doing that

Jinxhand: Mk9 is getting a lot of netplay in spite of the crappy netcode. Not b/c its patched properly. It just went from unplayable to "alright if you have a godlike connection its playable". It's still extrmely subpar. It sold 3 million copies which is why its getting play. You cant get 1 player to defend the netcode without getting laughed at...at least its a unified message. Not the case here.

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 27, 2011, 08:14:39 AM »

zeech, ive already done this. i wouldnt be posting as much as i have otherwise. Furthermore I haven't seen anyone in the US with a solid connection like I have posting in this thread. I've tested it over a variety of games, most notably, MK9, KOF, SSF4, GGPO and umvc3. still needs work.

Also, what youre asking for is a complete overhaul of the netcode. i dont expect that to happen at all. netcode honestly has to be buit from the ground up, you cant just patch it to have ggpo style rollback, or lobbies or anything ike that, serious capital expenditure.

its better to ask for something that is realistic imo like asking for them to improve their input delay netcode to something close to SSF4AE, which is reasonable and not totally unrealistic

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 27, 2011, 03:41:43 AM »

Nocturnal: Yeah, it would be amazing if we could have honest matches without the input delay. As you can see, my fios does help a lot in keeping the connection smooth even tho there is a good amount of input delay, which allowed us to quickrise as much as we did  since the delay for the most part, was consistent. Damn it SNKP, fix the netcode

I'd like to test my connection with Art as well, I need to upgrade my modem but I recently bumped up my internet speed to the fastest COX cable has to offer.  My up is around 30Mbps down (which should improve as it's limited to the modem) and roughly 7-8up.

Yeah, sure I don't mind testing it out with you, just let me know. I'm thinking about doing at least one stream a week for 13 at this point. Hopefully I'll get better connection than Nocturnal. The best connection I had with a Cox user was w/ Latif, who has Cox, and we have amazingly playable matches in SSF4 over his connection (as you know, Viper/Sim are really chars that get affected hugely with any kind of delay, but it was honestly fine.) Maybe it might be bad for us since you're a little further to the WC than Latif is..and its 13 netcode..but yeah, i dont mind giving it a shot. Should hit me up on twitter if anything.

I hope that my experiences and videos get back to SNKP/Atlus in some way, since as far as I know I'm the only person on fiber optics that streams their matches in the US...so generally if the connections are "meh" for me its ogin to be a hell of a lot worse for everyone else

Ky0: Honestly, I expect the connections outside the US in some parts of Eurasia to be a lot better...it seems that this gam was designed from the ground up for high speed connections/fiber and it was built and tweaked around that...evidenced by the # of 4 bar matches that Poongko got on his stream in his home country =( Where are you from?

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General Discussion / Re: KOF13 House stream Round 2 @ 3:30~4:00EST(2nd netplay test, grinding combos etc)

« on: November 27, 2011, 03:34:28 AM »

If you're on PS3 I'll play you. I'm in Upstate NY.

Thanks.

sorry only have xbl

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General Discussion / Re: KOF13 House stream Round 2 @ 3:30~4:00EST(2nd netplay test, grinding combos etc)

« on: November 26, 2011, 02:01:16 PM »

I kinda'/sorta' agree with your findings on netcode, but if you find someone you know who's relatively close or a Green connection, I will maintain that it's good and playable. That said, there's still deceitful connections, but I don't know what you could chalk that up to. Surely most of the online population can't all be on Wireless and torrents?
It really sucks when you accept a Green or Yellow connection and there's an obvious second of lag on the character select screen.

BTW: Sabin, could you kick that BootyClapper dude who was a mod on your stream? I simply said the netcode was okay and the guy blocked me twice and trolled. Thanks.

I'm not ready to say " Green Bar" (which is 3 bar right?) is completely playable. I will have to keep playing and come to that conclusion myself. 4 bar is fine, we all know that by now. It's better to be skeptical about it than praise the netcode outright, since there's so few opinions i trust

About Booty, no I'm not kicking him anytime soon. He's a mod on my/spooky stream also for a reason due to hosting many successful Guard Crush tourneys in the past. i did ask him to stop and not troll like that so he wont be giving timeouts randomly anymore (which is not a ban)

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General Discussion / Re: KOF13 House stream Round 2 @ 3:30~4:00EST(2nd netplay test, grinding combos etc)

« on: November 26, 2011, 08:25:09 AM »

I had better connections than I did on day 1 for the most part. But still, 2 bar is not really playable. Played Nocturnal for a bit, it was consistent delay and we could adjust, but not something Id like to play on a regular basis.

played ioriyk and it was good (kentucky.)
Also played several 3 bars, everyone who had 3bar tended to be close to me (PA, MTL, Kentucky? well at least KY is east coast.)

4 bar connection is too hard to get unless the person i play against has fiber optics.

Just noticed you guys embedded my stream on DC, so thx to you guys, as wel as orochinagi

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General Discussion / Re: KOF13 House stream Round 2 @ 3:30~4:00EST(2nd netplay test, grinding combos etc)

« on: November 26, 2011, 08:01:36 AM »

hope you guys enjoyed it

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General Discussion / KOF13 House stream Round 4 Live now 12/26 06:25 AM EST

« on: November 25, 2011, 10:03:17 PM »

http://www.twitch.tv/nycfurby

Should be live in about 30 minutes or so.
I play on XBL so if you want to test your connection with me hit me up.

It'll be a good watch for you guys that don't believe me about the netcode =)

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 24, 2011, 11:30:06 PM »

You guys can express your disagreement without royally shitting over the game's name, creating bad fame for it's netcode. Complain but don't exaggerate with your negativity.

Umm the netcode deserves to be trashed on. Game is great otherwise.

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 24, 2011, 09:52:02 AM »

I'm planning to do another 13 netplay stream on friday after thanksgiving. Will post on here/ON and see whats good

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 23, 2011, 11:19:09 PM »

I have a similar connection to desmond, so I guess the netcode isn't going to work for me. Can anyone relay this message to Atlus so they can relay it to SNKP?

Ive been blowing it up on twitter constantly and people have been RT'ing my tweets about the netcode, so i would hope sooner or later it gets back to atlus/SNKP!

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 23, 2011, 10:47:05 PM »

Wireless + online = guaranteed lag

Welcome to Dream Cancel Sabin, I remember you from Evo '09 when Tokido came and played KOF '98UM with us.

Keep us informed with your tests so we can get to the bottom of the netcode.

Wassup man, yeah, I will definitely keep dreamcancel informed about updates with the netcode. next time i do a stream ill let yal know in advance so i can test with various connections with someone that might know what theyre doing lol. even if the connection is shitty, i want to see if its possible for them to adjust or adapt to the connection. Right now the good connections i have are with people that just got the game like me. KOF13 i have to say, the core game is really good im very impressed. Just technically demanding! But I like the fact that there are no comeback mechanics in this game for sure and feels like a hybrid HD 98/2k2.

Was wondering if dreamcancel had a twitter set up so i can link to it next time I do the stream?

Anyway, thx for the warm welcome. I think that KOF tourney was the last KOF tourney I entered at DG's request lol. been a while since i fucked with kof

Nocturnal: wassup dude. sure we can try no problem. Haunts was telling me early on that cross country was not really doable but sure we can try it. The fact that you said "if my fam isnt using the internet, its ok" is not a sign of great internet though. Get that fiber man! once u have a symmetrical connection even if family is using the internet it's extremely hard for them to affect your quality of matches (in my case, they would have to saturate my 5.4 MB download speed lol.

and yeah man i know you are well versed in netcodes, so you can see what im saying here, of course i wouldnt talk out of my ass before putting the netcode on blast for no reason.
I feel that if there is a problem its def good to complain as early as possible in hopes of a fix! Not expecting them to add rollback netcode but some optimization to the input delay netcode in 13 right now would be great and go a long way i think. saying its ok or acceptable will hurt the games viability in the long term i think since a lot of people have online or bust

still cant believe this game has no multiplayer lobbies..can't spec, which means outside of a tournament or a player personally streaming themselves you would be seeing too many random 13 streams which hurts the exposure of the game I think damn

Heh, I just watched the stream archive for a bit and the replay is smooth, watching my games when it gets choppy or slows down it's def lagging lol and not the stream archive itself. Maybe I'll do somethin fri or this weekend again to get a better test fo sho

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 23, 2011, 08:56:41 PM »

Wireless + online = guaranteed lag

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General Discussion / Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports

« on: November 23, 2011, 07:55:08 PM »

this is why ggpo netcode is so good. can have playable connections to other countries with smoothing. used to play NY to Japan for super turbo (220ms ping), smoothing 1 or 2, far more playable than input delay netcode which is what kof13 is

I played MOTW a lot on GGPO and i can't bear connections over 70-80ms of ping, how can you call this playable?
Btw the input lag isn't the same kind of technologies as SF4? Wasn't it good enough to be playable online?

when i say playable i dont mean offline quality. enough to learn per se and of course it rolls back but its def acceptable. i even have od ass matches of me playing top japanese payers on ST (in GGPO) and they are all landing their 1f links no problem and reversal timing without a problem.


brief example of a old st match from 2008-2009? you cant see the delay and i was playing on pad at the time but theres no way he can land as many 1f links as he did if the netcode was truly that shitty.

my point is, with input delay netcode (which is what 13 has) that these kind of matches would never be possible at all.

KOF13 has the same tech as sf4 when it comes to input delay but right now it's not on par with SF4's. It's barely acceptable for most people