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« on: January 11, 2012, 01:18:01 AM »
I'm actually in the middle of writing a comprehensive guide to Elisabeth covering everything that I know. It's going to take a while to complete since I'm trying to be as thorough as possible.
Personally, I have trouble against Yuri as Elisabeth since the answers to her dive kick pressure require reading your opponent and taking some risks. Obviously, the best way to stop that dive kick pressure is to not get put into it but easier said then done. This all being said Yuri is realllllyyyy good and I think she's an underrated character, at the moment. It feels like within a few months she'll be considered top tier.
Anyways, I'm not an expert player or an expert Elisabeth, but I can only give insights from my own experiences, as well as my analysis from other Elisabeth players I've seen. Essentially, I find the character to be very passive aggressive during the neutral game until she can find the right space to start her offensive pressure, which always leads into the corner.
From what I've seen of Arcade version Elisabeth, she was solid in any position. This was mostly because she was a high damage character that was easy on your resources. She could play passive aggressively and control a lot of key space with j.CD, j.D, s.A, s.C, cl.s.D and Etincelle's, which built a lot of meter. This was frustrating to the opponent as it made them second guess their approach as any stray hit would lead into Grand Rafale. Basically, you maximized on damage with minimalist play.
Right now, I'm still seeing a lot of people play Elisabeth in this manner (except for TheAnswer), and while this still works it doesn't seem to be the most optimal way to play her. I feel the console changes force her to be played in a different manner. Seems like she needs to burn meter for options or to deal the 500+ damage she use to deal in the arcade version. Personally, I will burn meter and drive when I land a solid hit because it's always 500+ damage into a corner carry combo that leaves the opponent in an aerial reset state for a mix up.
The standard combos I go for are:
0 bar, 0 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, j.C or small hop j.A for particular mix ups
0 bar, 1 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, DC, QCF+K, QCF+C, A DP, A DP, j.C
1 bar, 1 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, DC, EX QCF+P, QCF+K, QCF+C, A DP, A DP, j.C
While you can end any of these combos with Grand Rafale for a bit more damage and a hard knockdown I tend to prefer the mix up you get with the aerial reset. On top of that I find the damage scaling after wards to be a waste of meter (let me know if I'm wrong on this).
HD Combo:
I only go for HD if they're near the corner
3 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCFx2+P, Neomax (850ish damage)
4 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, EX QCFx2+P, Neomax (900ish damage)
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], EX QCF+P, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCFx2+P, Neomax (850-900ish damage)
5 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], EX QCF+P, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, EX QCFx2+P, Neomax (1000+ damage)
I find if you can hit confirm from an C Etincelle (both hits or just the 2nd hit), anti-air Etincelle, CH j.CD, and CH A Etincelle you can really capitalize on the damage output for Elisabeth. All of those moves can lead into A DP into a full juggle combo, which puts your opponent back into the aerial reset state for a mix up.
To me, I find this to be the optimal play for Elisabeth. It's bascally using the passive aggressive play to find the optimal space to launch my offense and any hit is going to lead into a juggle corner carry combo leaving you in a reset state. In this manner, a full combo into a mix up will always kill the opponent as the subsequent combo should be dealing 400-500 damage as well. This is why I find Elisabeth to be better suited for 2nd or 3rd position but I tend to shy away from placing her in 3rd position as I don't feel Elisabeth covers enough match ups if she gets put into a reverse OCV situation. I'd rather have her 2nd to deal as much damage as possible so that my anchor has the best chances to finish off the opponent or in a worst case scenario be able to have the tools to reverse OCV.
In terms of mix ups, here's what I've discovered:
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, small hop j.a, run underneath or in front of your opponent
-s.C, f+B into a full combo if the opponent guesses wrong on your position
-Throw or Command Grab (have to wait a bit as the opponent has an unthrowable window upon landing)
-Meaty c.B, link into s.C into a full combo (meaty specific combo)
-Delay the run and then do a delayed EX DP to beat certain reversals (very match up specific). This is more effective in the corner when the opponent wants to jump to escape a command grab or out space a bad jump in
-Counter or EX Counter to bait something from your opponent
-Do nothing and bait out a reversal
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, j.C, land
-A deep normal jump j.B cross up
-Small jump j.B (harder to see and react to but very one dimensional)
-Empty small hop into Throw, Mistral, or low
-Throw or Command Grab (have to wait a bit as the opponent has an unthrowable window upon landing)
-Meaty c.B, link into s.C into a full combo (meaty specific combo)
-Counter or EX Counter to bait something from your opponent
-Do nothing and bait out a reversal.
Any of the meter and drive cancel combos I listed can lead into the j.C/A, small jump j.B mix up as well. They will all put the opponent in the corner so cross up or cross over stuff won't apply. For the most part the majority of the mix up games I listed above are applicable. Additionally, you gain access to the following meaty setup:
-Meaty QCF+C, off a j.C they have more time to recognize and escape the meaty with a roll or reversal. Off of a j.A only the tail end of the 2nd hit of QCF+C will connect. If it's blocked it leaves you at around +1 or neutral. If it hits you can go into DP+A into a drive combo for 400-500damage.
A lot of the mix ups are the same in each set up but there's a lot of subsequent mind games that come from the aerial reset states.
c.B, c.B, c.A (whiff), whiff cancel into EX/QCF+K:
-EX/QCF+P - If you do the EX version of the command dash any special move done during a certain time window will be EX moves for free. A, C, or EX Etincelle will catch back dashes or jumps and will lead into A DP for a full juggle combo
-EX/Mistral - From the regular mistral you can wait for your opponent to land, then take a step forward and roll behind them for a mix up.
-EX/DP+P - Catch back dashes or people pushing buttons. More risky as the DP can be stuffed with normals, certain reversals, or be avoided with rolls or neutral jumps. On top of that blocked C and EX DP's are unsafe.
j.CD, small jump j.B cross up.
-Hit confirm into a full juggle combo
I guess this is a modification to how she played in the arcade. The way I'm playing Elisabeth is controlling space with specific normals or specials to land a juggle combo into a reset situation then utilizing a series of specific mind games to finish the opponent off in two or more mix ups.
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