Messages

[OST '96.]

OST '96. The reason it's called "NEOGEO Version" is because it's the music of the original Neogeo cart, which didn't allow for CD-quality audio. AST's are mixes made for CD based systems (NGCD, PS1, Saturn, Dreamcast, etc).

Does hwa have any combos where he combos into the drink and can keep going with normals, special moves, super or anything?

Basically, if you super cancel into Drink Right after an EX TNT Punch, that's the most potential to combo you're going to get.

EX TNT seems like it's impossible to hit juggled opponents with. The best way to land it (for me) Is , , stand , , EX TNT.

Drink cancelling is only effective in corner, otherwise, you seem to be too far away. Mostly, for me, I'd rather knock them far away (like with his CD), plug in a drink while they're recovering, and then fish for Drink-buffed Dragon BackBREAKA setups. After the Drink, Dragon BackBREAKA is like a mini-neomax, and all the hits you do leading up to the BREAKA are buffed by the drinking as well.

[Weak:]

Ok, any way we can get some concrete info on her Grand Saber recovery speed? I can tell you my anecdotal evidence, but it's not 100% backed by frame data XD (Reposting from my GAF Post):

For me, Grand Saber feels like this:

Weak: Fast enough startup to combo off Close C (Making Close C, Weak GS, Slash Saber DM very nice), but recovery is horrible on block. Probably about as bad as a whiffed Moon slasher?

Strong: I believe this gets frame advantage. I use it as a trap all the time (Strong Grand Saber from a distance on wakeup (blocked) -> Crouch B, Crouch A, C Moon Slasher), and while I have gotten thrown after such things, it seems to be because my B was slightly off time, rather than her being open.

When they mentioned in the blog translations, that Strong Grand Saber was "About the same", I figured that was more "It's about the same as arcade", rather than "Both opponents recover at about the same time.".

Generally, I move in with confidence with it.

----

Anyone with more arcade experience with her feel any more differences with her on console, than were stated in SNKP Blogs?

----

I love being able to use her CD to stick people into Blockstun, and then follow up with D Grand Saber. Even better if the CD landed a counter hit, and the Grand Saber lands as followup, perfect time to land Slash Saber!

Personally, I'm slightly annoyed Slash Saber has to be Super canceled off Grand Saber so tightly; It makes it a little less reliable than I'd wish, but Leona is all about extremly accurate execution... I also wish there was some difference to each button press of Slash Saber, but I've mentioned this before. I love the DM in general, though!

Oh, and does anyone else feel like Close D might leave her at small frame advantage? Since she's considered to be in some awkward half-airborn stage with the move, she can't combo anything like grand saber A off it, but it's not aerial enough to do any of her air moves without going into Strike Arch...

Hop C is such a weird crossup. Hop and Jump B is a fantastic air-to-air, and I even like using it for ground pressure myself, as it allows her to hit deep, so the enemey sticks in blockstun, and it starts up pretty fast. Hop A seems to be her best jump-in to me, as it hits deep enough to get her back to the ground for combos, starts up faster than C or D jump attacks, and can be combo into A X Calibur of V slasher.

As great as her jump CD is, it has a lot of startup (compared to, say, Hwa and Mature's CDs), so I normally depend on B and D while in the air.

Lastly, I do think I much appreciate the faster Strike Arch and EX X Calibur, now. A great little mixup with the command normal, and EX-X is a great thing to make twitchy opponenets eat big damage, or just give Leona enough time to move back in, and start her pressure.

Yes, the DLC Characters come with B side music. It's not all known so far, the way it seems, though.

Iori has Arashi No Saxaphone 2 (Arranged) For A side, and Arashi No Saxaphone 2 (NEOGEO Version) for B side.

NESTS Style Kyo's Main theme is:

KOF XIII OST - Goodbye ESAKA (EX Kyo)

There's a video of his mission trials that uses this music from Skystage:
KOF OST - Tears (Skystage Mix)

But it's unclear if that's used in game for him as a side B, or just the Combo vid creator's taste.

Mr. Karate's known theme so far:
The KOF XIII - Mr. Karate Theme (The Tengu Show)

(Says The Tengu Show, but sounds more like Shihan...)

I c I c so air dp A isnt safe cause u can get thrown rite

-nod- Yup, seems that way.

Ok, I have to clear up a bit with more testing:

Jumping B is weird. I've got it to cancel into dp+B a few times, but normally, nope. Hops, or full jumps, it rarely cancels.

My commentary on using qcb+B to change air momentum is slightly off. He DOES need to start the "decend" portion of a jump for (Air normal -> qcb+B) to combo, or be safe on block. Otherwise, he hits the ground too late. This can be useful for Dragonbreaker kick throwing / invincibility frame trap, but it's risky.

(Air Normal -> dp+B), however, works just as said. It's easier to combo off of if you're closer to the ground, but you can always land something after it in corner, and you CAN get DM or EXDM Dragon Dance off it, midscreen, if you're fast enough.

On smaller characters, it's hard to land a close D -> qcb+D crossup. But you can sometimes land a crossup with grounded qcb+b on them, as Hwa will leap right over them, and hit them with his heel.

(qcf+B on block -> Crouch D), or any quick move of choice, seems to be a nice frametrap. Similiar in use to how Ralf can get quick mixups off his qcf+c on block. If you think they'll sweep you, go for his CD, as it hops lows, and then punish accordingly VS the counterhit, with the followup of your choice.
----

As a note, I wonder why the cancel timing between Dragon Breaker -> MAX Cancel Final Dragon Kick is so odd? Most things in this game work on a "on final hit" style timer, but this cancel seems to be "right after final hit" style.

At any rate, I still need to tighten up my play with him, but overall, Hwa feels very strong in this game. C DragonBackbreakaa has insane invincibility, it's like a perfected version of Vice's old QCFx2 DM and Clark's Running 3, rolled into one move. With the B version as a 1 frame grapple, and all the crazy stuff Hwa can do to leave himself right in your face for mixups, and a way to hop over lows and get solid damage afterwards, plus solid drive cancel combos... and you have a real monster when used correctly.

The very rear of a grab chara in KoF is that they can punish you on-the-spot with their grapples, and that it makes your approach much more difficult. Using simply B SAB eliminates much of that. Of course you still have the EX version, but you also need meter for that, and 2 meters + drive for the super cancel. The D SAB is simply free, can be combo'd into from close normals, and can punish rolls, and be done near instantly out of hop pressure. You can also cancel into it from Gattlings, if you so desire.

As far as C Gattling goes, it can be combo'd into off heavy normals (Great after a ranged Crouch C), and also has an extra hit on the ground, which makes it easier to cancel into a grapple. The DLD followup also grounds them again after the juggle, and sets them up for more wakeup mixups.

Just relying on B SAB weakens your game, overall. The move is punishable when spammed, it can be baited, and it overall loses effectiveness when you play aganist people who know KoF more. Alt guarding will destroy it, hop and jump moves will destroy it, spaced multi-hit moves that leave you in air during multiple hits will devour it, and leave you comboable... sure it's a great tool, but it's only at it's best, when it's mixed in with his other options.

i dont really get wha chu mean by this do u mean to start up a combo or to keep presser on them

I actually mean both Hwa can alter his trajectory with his Air Dragon Tail, or Dragon Whip. Most characters have to wait to a certain time in a jump / hop, to do their attack, and actually land on the ground in time to combo. But since Hwa has specials which mave short enough startup + enough hitstun to leave them open after hitting, he can combo from a jump normal into a special, and continue the combo once he reaches the ground.

So, in the corner, you could do something like this: Hop and hit with a high D as early as you can, then instantly use DP+B for downwards Dragon Kick. Once you land, quickly qcf+A to juggle, and then do your EX Dragon Dance DM. Easy Combos for 360 ~ 50% Damage

Not to mention you could also go HD mode in mid-air with the first normal hit, and then combo them into oblivion with the HD cancel combo of your choice:)

Air Dragon Tail seems totally safe in blockstrings this way, Dragon kick seems mostly safe outside corners, probably not in corners, as it'll leave you recovering in throw range...

Just one correction Mr. Bakaboy, I'm all the way on the East Coast, North Carolina

I can vouch for what you said about the rest of the match though, one of the better matches with fellow DC'ers that I've felt.

Where are you located, btw? I'm guessing Missouri, going by your speed test image?

So far, only played one match online. It was 3 bars, a green connection. However, the input lag was HORRIBLE. I dunno what some people call "a little" lag, but to me this was not playable at ALL. I don't see how anyone could call this playable. I couldn't do anything and felt like I was stuck underwater. This was Soul Calibur IV bad, except SCIV only got this bad on the worst connections. If this is a GREEN connection then I am scared to see a red. I'll be playing in the tournament today, so I'll see how it goes and record every bit of data in this thread. I expect to be having quite a few negative things to say...

The bars aren't always 100% accurate. A connection can also fluxtuate while playing it. Today, I've had 1's that felt like high 2s, 2s that felt like 1s, and 3s that felt like lower 2s. It was interesting to watch this in game lobbies with active ping numbers... a person would start out in the 60s, and then after a while, would be in the 150s. Most likely, someone in their house probably started to stream, or they split their connection with something else after starting to play. Also, if you or the opponent have wireless, this can return a high ping... but actually have a lot of flux and lagtime between communications. There's a lot of crazy factors...

Random Note:

I'd like to point out that Hwa can combo into Either qcb+B or dp+B on hit of an aerial normal (All except hop/jump B, I believe). I think this is extra-important on console, because aerial hitstun has been reduced, making jump-ins harder to profit off of.

Well, he can use qcb+ B midscreen to combo afer reaching the ground. It has a "sweet spot" where it works best. It seems to work best for me, at the height of a hop, allowing you to convert quick jumps into combos without having to start the "decend" portion of the hop, which is pretty snazzy.

The dp+B off a hop/jump C or D works midscreen as well, but it hard to combo off of. It truly shines in the corner, however! You can get 2 free qcf+A's off it, leading into more combo, 1 qcf+a into Dragon Dance, of go directly into his dp+A (DC) qcb+D juggle loops. It gives you TONS of options.

It's also possible to drive cancel out of any of these air hits, into Normal / EX aerial moves, but it's not the best damaging way. However, it can help you score knockdowns / get the opponent to where you want them easily.

He's VERY versatile with all this! I think this is all worth even more thanks to jump stun changes. Makes it easier for him to combo off jump and hop hits than anyone else in the game

SNKP Breaks their own game with insane combos:
コンボ動画『マニアックコンボ前半』

コンボ動画『マニアックコンボ後半』

Something new to aim towards each game with this game

Special Friday Blogpost that goes with it: http://game.snkplaymore.co.jp/official/kof-xiii/blog/archives/2011/12/kof13_1.html

New combos from SNKP Blog update.

The 4 hit normals before "Sake Jug" backhand is my new favorite thing, lol. Though I personally do it off all crouching normals, as the damage is the same, and it avoids going into ducking stance. I always loved the forward movement of his crouch B, now it finally has a use!

I'm loving chin but I had one big grip

I found really hard to get drunk

And not in a sense of ''I can't find the moment to use that tech'' but more in a sense that the RDP never came out, is almost always his qcb + p

Stick the diagonal for a bit of time, before pressing the button. This keeps your last input from being a "back", and guarentees it's a "down-back". I find it a bit stuffy, but not as strict as drinking in 2K2UM...

I usually jump forward with j.CD, so I'll try neutral jumping next time I play. Can I still combo EX Press off of a neutral j.CD CH?

You *MIGHT* be able to, but I generally only use EX Press off Counterwire hits myself, I don't like the chance of doing to too early, and eating a combo. I generally use the neutral jump CD wall more as a defense, rather than an offense, you could say.

j.D is so slow! It gets tagged by air-to-air j.As/Bs for free. I only use it to chip away at guard meter during a jump-in blockstring or to start combos if I'm punishing something.

It is slow, but I activate it on the way up. If me and the opponent both jumped, and they're planing to use a move WHEN they get that high, and I used mine befrorehand, they kinda "rest" onto Maxima's hitbox, and get hit, before their high-aimed Air-to-Air normal makes it out.

Risky, again, but it works in odd ways on occassion. I prefer staying grounded though, but I use the kick when jumping over fireballs sometimes, as the more-downward-than-bodybox attack does a good job of trading with DPs and stopping run-after techniques. This is during those annoying time when Lag / personal timing is making me sloppy-hop over (and thus, into) projectiles...

I remember specifically seeing a japanese Maxima use cr.C to LOW GP Andy's cr.D (sweep) and cancel into Weak Vapor Cannon. You're saying non of his moves have low GP?

This is where Maxima's GPs confuse me, you see, which Is why I wish for more GP documentation, haha. For me, it always seems like his GP box is more of a "If GP box meets attack box, GP works" style thing, which means that a Higher-up sweep can sometimes be guarded by a GP (Like Terry's or Iori's), but true "on the ground" lows will always win out (Such as most cround B's, and Maxima's own sweep.)

-------

In the bit of online play I did just recently, I have to say, his DM (and EX) is even more effective than I've traditionally given it credit for. I tried testing the Invincibility of EX DM VS sweeps in training, but only had a few minutes to do so, and came up with no conclusive answers... so if anyone wants to try it out VS various sweeps and such, feel free to do so!

[Pointer for Maxima Wiki:]

Louis/Reiki/SAB, you guys are the greatest. I really appreciate all the awesome feedback. I went to local KOFXIII weekly today and tried to get into the mindset of Maxima as an anchor...and it's amazing. He feels like a completely different character with all that bar. Any hit translates into at LEAST 40%.

Glad to have helped:) It's amazing how quickly he can END a match at that point, It's really quite satisfying, haha. And If Kyo's get projectile-goody, it's BEAM time! Flames Iori is gonna hate this, too...

Where I'm at right now:

He still feels a bit clunky, and hard to manage against other anchors (Kyo, Iori, Shen). I find myself getting beat air-to-air alot, even with my j.B/j.CDs. When it comes to AA, it feels like guard point is the way to go. I've been cancelling st.C into EX DP for AA (I think non-EX DP is too slow). Is there something more efficient I could be doing?

Neutral Jump / hop CD is a great "Stop jumping at me!", but really, I wouldn't try to Air-to-Air with him much. Standing Jab and Guard points ARE your AA. Make them fall on that far D! If a character does a single hit move, going into that EX press off the guardpoint cancel is great, or just the regular fall.

I do have suprising success with Full jump D in Air-to-Air, but it's... awkward.

Oh, and I can never get cr.C low guard point to work. It gets stuffed by everything!

Remember, first off, this isn't a true "low" GP, it's like an anti-air to Deep jumpins, and to standing normals. Low attacks (Like Crouch Bs, and Sweeps) will totally destroy it. But it has great range + can be cancelled, so it's a calculated risk.

Speaking of Risk, I enjoy occassionally using Maxima Press on opponent wakeup. If they do anyting that has any startup / or foward or backroll, they're gonna get grabbed. It's a nice mixup to On-wakeup VAPUH KANNUN / Stand D, as opponents like to start rolling through those, to punish his laggy attack / foward step momentum.

Pointer for Maxima Wiki: Guardpoint detection /absorbtion area and startup speed should really be noted under each of his normals / specials that have it.

The only one that is full body is his Air EX vapor, right? I'm pretty sure even his EX DM doesn't have low GP (which is kinda sad, lol.) However, I'm NOT sure if the DM and EX DM GPs behave any differently, as I don't believe it's ever been documented? The SRK Wiki says his EX DM is fully invincible on startup, have to test that myself... I thought I remembered being sweeped out of it before.

http://game.snkplaymore.co.jp/official/kof-xiii/blog/archives/2011/12/kof13.html

12 new vids of combos cool...

Quote for new page, as many of SNKP's combos are worth watching:) Good short videos that cover basics and advanced sombos in short order, and have some nice tricks.

One question. Maybe you have talked about this already... Is there any way to refuse a match when you get challenged in arcade or practice? I will like to refuse fight against 1 bar people, but I do know how (i press O button, or select, or start, or triangle, but nothing works and match starts)..

thanks in advance

If you play Arcade or practice in Ranked, there's no way to refuse. But you're finished with the person after 1 round.

If you pick these options under Player, you can refuse the players, but they stick around after the fight.

So you get more control in player matches.

I play loads of online matches (VS Randoms in Ranked). Many very different experiences, but a majority very playable. About the same pains I had playing UMVC3 earlier this month, really. It's really hard to 100% trust the numbers, as some 2's play better than 3s, and some 1's feel more like solid 2s.

Anywho, I personally like having each character accessable from just a link click away. The most relevant, recent info is a click away, and I personally prefer this than having to click 2 or 3 pages in, just to reach a characters info.

However, I can see how breaking everything up makes it easier to see exactly what you want, if you're new. A lot of the basic info for a character is harder to find when everything is simply "recent info".

Would it be possible to put a direct link to the characters wikipage as a link in their forum section, or as a "sublink" under their forum section? I think it'd help increase the Wiki's relevance to "ground floor" info lookup.

Or maybe even just make it "Team Specific" Forums, with each set of 3 having all their relevant links (Basic / Misc info, Videos, and general discussion) all on one page, clickable from there? That's how character I broken up on character select screen, so it'd be nice to have the parallel, and would still make them easier to organize.

So I'd say something like this:

KoF XIII Character / Gameplay Discussion: [Index Page Link]
Team K' [second page, each team is listed on this 2nd page. Subform links direct to each character under each team from here would also be very good.]
[Info contained on 3rd page.]
---K'
>>>> Basic Info / Wiki Link
>>>> Videos
>>>> Discussion
---Kula
>>>> Basic Info / Wiki Link
>>>> Videos
>>>> Discussion
---Maxima
>>>> Basic Info / Wiki Link
>>>> Videos
>>>> Discussion

KoF is primarily a team-based game, so having the forums set up in a way that keeps this idea in mind, would fit with the game well. It's not just about learning 1 character, it's about learning how to put 3 together, in a way that fits you.

So yeah... do with this idea as you will