Topic: Off Topic thread:Gen 8 Edition

[FataCon]

they need more horror games were you dont go around shooting or stabbing everything up

Thoughts on Siren?

[Xxenace]

ive never played it before

edit: upon looking up some stuff about it on wikipedia it actually seems like a pretty neat series

[Proto Cloud]

they need more horror games were you dont go around shooting or stabbing everything up

Honestly, here's a start. One of my biggest beefs is that they make too many characters walking tanks. Take for instance Sheva and Chris which are like a two person army of death. It takes away from the scares when it feels more like Contra than an RE game. Sure those are scary fellas, but I've enough bullets to kill all these bitches. It's alright to have an action based horror shooter, but I think that you'd have up the ante and make it so that the opposition is even more formidable, to the point of unstoppable, would be the only way.

Actually, the scariest stuff are games like Clocktower and Amnesia where you can't really fight back.

Some other suggestions would be in-game system which would make you lose control on purpose, sort of like what Amnesia did on having a psych meter that dictates how much sanity you have left and makes it harder on you, maybe even making you have worse control over your character.

But yeah, I can relate to you on RE2. It was a definite masterpiece of its time and I was quite scared of it as a kid, but I eventually gained the courage to play quite a bit and was engrossed quite well into it. It's sad because it's part of a bygone era and in a way I can understand where some people are hating on RE4 because it really wasn't scary at all, but at the same time, there's really no way you can say it's a bad game because it's really damn good at everything else and was made at a time when the series was getting stale and needed a good reboot.

I dunno. I just don't appreciate this pandering to the western audience by making RE more like Call of Duty just because they know that zombies are back in style and that now just about ANYTHING with zombies will sell like hotcakes. So, why not emulate the most popular game of all time? I mean, they're even making Operation Racoon City into a tactical shooter made by the guys that gave you the shitty SOCOM games.

[Saitsuofleaves]

And that's kind of why I scoff at the people who thinks RE should always relate to zombies.  RE was never really about zombies as a whole.  If anything, not using zombies in RE now would seem more courageous than anything with these new Zombie-infested times.  Sometimes I do respect developers sticking to their guns when we keep trying to denounce one of their decisions.  It's when they quickly cop out or pull back is when I'm annoyed.  If you're gonna make a decision on a game or franchise, it helps to actually be convicted in said decision, which is why DmC is turning even worse than usual.  While I hated everything about the changes they did, what annoyed me more is they almost immediately started changing things up and their stances and everything when met with backlash.  It just shows the decision was not well thought out whatsoever.  I don't mind steadfast decisions, at least if goes wrong they can say "Okay, we thought it would work, we tried it, it didn't, now we know moving forward".

That's also why I don't mind some of Capcom's decisions on RE.  Revelations does show that they indeed still know how to deliver on Survival Horror, and yet the other games show they're not unwilling to take risks.  They could've easily balked once people started getting annoyed by the whole co-op thing in RE5, but they stuck to their guns.  While it probably didn't go as well as they hoped, they can write it down and refine that experience while adding the other experiences older fans can appreciate, which is why I look forward to RE6.  It seems to maintain the Survival Horror aspect in Leon's Campaign, a more tightly focused..."Gears" Style in Chris's campaign, and then what seems to be a whole new style in the new Protagonist.  And it works, especially in comparison to the two main leads and their styles.

Look at Leon's 2 Main games.  RE2 and 4.  In 2 he was unwillingly dropped in hell and for the most part, just wanted to escape with Claire, Sherry and Ada (though Ada being Ada, did as much harm as good).  In RE4 he just wanted to infiltrate, quickly rescue Ashley, and get the hell out of dodge really.  Whereas Chris in his 3 Main Games, RE1, RECV, and RE5, has gone into a hot zone basically on request.  RE1, with the Stars group to help out his allies and uncover the secrets going on within.  RECV, he went in to rescue Claire and upon discovering Wesker, decided to kick a little ass too.  RE5...don't think I even need to say it.  It's why their styles make sense.  Chris is always going into the danger, trying to take everything out, while Leon's only thoughts is survival of him and his friends.

[Xxenace]

speaking of SOCOM, socom 4 sucked complete ass and it was made by the people who originally made the socom games(zipper) i would love to see a HD version of socom 2 some day

[Delta]

Three different things down the tube for RE6 again.

The girl Leon's hanging out with is Government Agent Helena Harper.  After that, who knows?

The 3rd Protagonist still unknown but is related to a major RE character in some way (eliminates HUNK, Alex Wesker the most likely candidate).

At first i was like "what'chu talkin' 'bout, Satsui?" but then i read the wiki about him.
Where and when was the first time they mentioned that Wesker project?

[FataCon]

At first i was like "what'chu talkin' 'bout, Satsui?" but then i read the wiki about him.
Where and when was the first time they mentioned that Wesker project?

I believe it was mostly explained in Code Veronica, and a little bit in Zero.

[Proto Cloud]

And that's kind of why I scoff at the people who thinks RE should always relate to zombies.  RE was never really about zombies as a whole.  If anything, not using zombies in RE now would seem more courageous than anything with these new Zombie-infested times.  Sometimes I do respect developers sticking to their guns when we keep trying to denounce one of their decisions.  It's when they quickly cop out or pull back is when I'm annoyed.  If you're gonna make a decision on a game or franchise, it helps to actually be convicted in said decision, which is why DmC is turning even worse than usual.  While I hated everything about the changes they did, what annoyed me more is they almost immediately started changing things up and their stances and everything when met with backlash.  It just shows the decision was not well thought out whatsoever.  I don't mind steadfast decisions, at least if goes wrong they can say "Okay, we thought it would work, we tried it, it didn't, now we know moving forward".

That's also why I don't mind some of Capcom's decisions on RE.  Revelations does show that they indeed still know how to deliver on Survival Horror, and yet the other games show they're not unwilling to take risks.  They could've easily balked once people started getting annoyed by the whole co-op thing in RE5, but they stuck to their guns.  While it probably didn't go as well as they hoped, they can write it down and refine that experience while adding the other experiences older fans can appreciate, which is why I look forward to RE6.  It seems to maintain the Survival Horror aspect in Leon's Campaign, a more tightly focused..."Gears" Style in Chris's campaign, and then what seems to be a whole new style in the new Protagonist.  And it works, especially in comparison to the two main leads and their styles.

Look at Leon's 2 Main games.  RE2 and 4.  In 2 he was unwillingly dropped in hell and for the most part, just wanted to escape with Claire, Sherry and Ada (though Ada being Ada, did as much harm as good).  In RE4 he just wanted to infiltrate, quickly rescue Ashley, and get the hell out of dodge really.  Whereas Chris in his 3 Main Games, RE1, RECV, and RE5, has gone into a hot zone basically on request.  RE1, with the Stars group to help out his allies and uncover the secrets going on within.  RECV, he went in to rescue Claire and upon discovering Wesker, decided to kick a little ass too.  RE5...don't think I even need to say it.  It's why their styles make sense.  Chris is always going into the danger, trying to take everything out, while Leon's only thoughts is survival of him and his friends.

Uh... what are you talking about? I didn't say anything about whether should have zombies or not. ORC also has zombies. I don't get your point here. It's just a tactical shooter with zombies and I couldn't be less enthused about it.

As for DMC, it's VERY different. It doesn't have zombies, it has Dante. That's like having an RE title WITHOUT zombies now. The problem with Capcom here is that they just don't get what people like about Devil May Cry. It isn't about the "style" or "underground" or a "statement" or a "mature story". It's about about using a badass and going nuts in 60 FPS combo filled, strategic  hack n' slash heaven. The problem here is that the fans refute poor and ridiculous new directions in style as opposed to ResiEvil, because as long as it has zombies and action it's a-okay on most everyone's book. On the other hand though, most of these problems might have been solved if they didn't act like jackasses and offend the fans like they did and insult their intelligence. They could've instead said, "just give us a chance" and it would've probably worked better than it did.

As for the direction of RE. I can respect that Capcom wants to make money and all that jazz. The fact is I don't like how they're taking the direction so far gone to westernization. Which, actually, besides Resident Evil hasn't worked out all that well for Capcom. (Let's remember Bionic Commando, Dark Void and Lost Planet 2 being some the failures in their attempts at westernizing their games and we have yet to see how Dragon's Dogma and DmC will fare.)

Basically, I really believe that RE4 did it right the first time and only needed control improvements and some actual scares. I don't like having a sequel that throws everything and the kitchen sink away. Sure Chris is supposed to be an action hero, but by making him a comic book superhero in his game, it makes the whole game looks even more ridiculous than it should. Add the fact that Jill is turned into a super ninja, you've got a cliched as fuck villain like Wesker, racism, more guns than you need and most of this taking place in daylight. It takes away the whole human aspect and b-movie aspect and makes it instead like a superhero movie directed by Michael Bay instead.

I don't know how to point this out, but RE5 is like the Metal Gear Solid 4 of the series. To me it's a shit-stain on the series that did well, but I'd much rather forget about it altogether.

Like I said before, I'm holding out hope that Revelations is the RE4 sequel that I always wanted and gives me comfort that Capcom still cares about the rest of us.

[Saitsuofleaves]

I know you didn't mention it, it was a tangent related to a discussion with my friends about it from the other day.  It was on my mind, so I ranted.

And I know DmC has a ton of problems, hence when I said I hated all of them.  Plus NT's and IGN's responses for that matter, are completely insulting it pisses me off extremely.  I'm just saying, while that looks bad, it looks worse when you do that and then balk at your idea almost immediately, it makes it seem very crappily thought out.  It bothers me more because...well, they're exactly like me.  I get angry easily, and want to defend my idea to the death, then I look back almost immediately and see that my idea was probably stupid, so I double back and make an even bigger ass of myself rather than if I just stuck by it at least having some conviction.

And I think Capcom's departure from RE4 was I guess for Westernization, but I also take it as fear.  Remember, Capcom is a company that has gotten in plenty of holes in the past for sticking too firmly to one formula within their series.  It would not surprise me if that was in the back of their mind when moving forward.

As for the MGS comparison, honestly, if you get right down to it, I don't think MGS should've ever went further than MGS1, or if they did, they should've done more standalone entries than anything.  One thing I've learned is that trying to stick to a cohesive story for so long only starts causing more problems than anything down the road.  Look at any series that has a continual story further than 3 games or even movies.  I can't think of one that's going marginally well (remember, MGS was the third game in the series).

Your hope holds well, from what I hear Revelations is great like you would want, though I've seen it also seems to have the same exact departures almost that RE6 will have, only instead of just being separate stories outright, they interject within the story, how much of a departure they are I don't know yet, but I guess we'll see soon.

But honestly, it would probably be best for the series to be done after RE6 and just discontinue the series or reboot it.  There's nothing really to gain other than money from moving forward, and if they really feel the need to, they could reboot it and start fresh with new ideas.  But at the very least, unless some of their OTHER divisions, at least they take 3+ years to make these games and don't just push them out like clockwork.

[Proto Cloud]

Yeah, with DmC, if they'd shut their mouths and let their game talk, it would've worked out better than it did. Sure, many players, myself included, wouldn't be caught dead playing this, but at least some would give it a chance. I also don't really understand the need to reboot the series already. I know that DMC4 was pretty lackluster, but the series isn't really story oriented and I don't think the series was showing it's age yet.

My problem with veering off course from RE4, is that RE4 itself was already a departure from what they did before and was very well received after coming after a bunch of previous failures. I understand that they feared being behind, but they hadn't done much of anything with their franchise after 4 to warrant a reboot. I see a preconceived notion that if they didn't follow in the ever growing popularity of shooters they'll never get a foothold again in the west. Which is pretty simple to see with the inclusion of co-op, more gunplay and the most forced multiplayer versus ever. I'd completely understand if they had a next-gen RE failure and resorted to this, but they never really even tried and that's where my complaints with the series jumping the shark like it did come from.

I think that MGS still had juice to it and still does. Yeah, as smart and ahead of its time the story of MGS2, it kinda ruined the series forever, but then there was MGS3, so I disagree in the end. I do however believe like I said earlier a reboot with a new universe and characters, because like you said, a long cohesive story isn't really a good idea and eventually you'll find a way to ruin it. (Like Star Wars)

There's no way they're discountinuing RE any time soon. Zombies as far as they've been around always have and always will be popular and right now they're hot as ever. Unless, they really destroy their brand, it's still their biggest money maker and their usual fallback plan for a while now. But I really do hope they reboot it completely. This whole timeline is just tired and I'm tired of seeing all the same characters over and over.

[Saitsuofleaves]

The thing about MGS3 though is that...it felt more stand alone than anything.  Yes, it had Big Boss, and Ocelot, and was a prequel and all of that.  But I never felt any obligation to connect MGS3 to the rest of the series.  I think that's why Final Fantasy worked as well as long as it did.  But eventually, even it got forced down a road where everyone wants a certain FF game to be, and that hurt big time. 

I think...once people see you in a certain way, or see what you do, it hurts more than helps.  Because then you feel obligated to continue on that road, rather than be inspired.

[Proto Cloud]

Well, so much for FF being like that. FFXIII and FFVII broke that shit outta the damn game.

Also in that whole discussion about horror I forgot to mention Deadly Premonition. That game was the shit.

[Xxenace]

you know i forgot how awesome this is

they need to find some way to get this into XIII right now

[Saitsuofleaves]

On the subject of "that" game...Capcom has now officially stated that RE6 is a sequel.  I think they also stated that it takes place in 2013, which would be 4 years after RE5's end.

Interesting.  But not surprising.

[Xxenace]

if you dont feel like dancing for at least a second then kill yourself