Author Topic: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)  (Read 61244 times)

irfaanator

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2012, 09:19:18 PM »

Close st.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, dp+A, j.C = 286 Damage, 36 Stun

This. Can anyone gimme me any advice on how to land that third DP?

I put it some execution tips in the wiki for this but essentially you are looking to hit the first dp+A as deep/late as possible so that the 2nd dp+A will hit. In order to do this you can either eyeball it or use a s.B whiff then whiff cancel into dp+A to get the timing down.

I also had a question about the combo that contains
dp C, dp A, DC qcf K, qcf C.

I am not getting the this combo because right after i do qcf K i either get the counter move since they are facing the wrong way or the qcf C does not hit? Is there something that I am missing? I am trying to do this combo mid screen since it doesnt really say anything about it being corner specific.

In order to get the qcf+C to hit after the qcf+K you need to hit the dp+A as late as possible. Read the above to understand the timing of the dp+A.

Once I finish the wiki I was planning on making some Elisabeth tutorial videos but not sure if I'll be able to get around to it.

Thanks for the tips

desmond_kof

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2012, 09:52:21 PM »

Once I finish the wiki I was planning on making some Elisabeth tutorial videos but not sure if I'll be able to get around to it.

Do it man, that would be dope!
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2012, 04:37:23 AM »
I don't mind doing a tutorial video series for Elisabeth but I don't have the equipment to do that but I know a friend who does. It's kind of a hassle to get all of that setup but if I have time I'll try to make one.

Coincidentally, I noticed the 1 drive meter combos listing the dp+A, (DC) qcf+k, qcf+C, but what about dp+A, (DC) qcf+A as another variation? Does the potential command overlap make it impractical? Even though I don't use the shortcut, I feel as though the shortcut makes it easy to land if there's any doubt. Just like the combo in the wiki, the issue with landing the dp+A as low as possible still remains.

Close st.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, (DC) qcf+A, dp+A, dp+A, j.C does 367 damage, 48 stun, and also works anywhere on screen.

Also, I noticed 1 small thing in the wiki. In the "0 Stock, No Drive Gauge" combo section, the corner combo is missing the dp+C before the qcf+C.

Yes, you could use that alternate combo and I'll list in the wiki as well. I haven't written done the damage and stun values yet for the qcf+k, qcf+C combo yet so I can't say which one is better, at the moment.

Execution wise both combos are about the same in difficulty because they both require a deep dp+A for the rest of the combo to work. It's whatever your more comfortable with but I'm looking for optimal damage each time.

MysticShadow1453

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #63 on: February 29, 2012, 02:47:06 PM »
im having a hard time as elisabeth against people who just jump at me. what am i supposed to do in these situations? It feels like she can control ground space so well but the air is kinda free to her opponents unless you preemptively do etincelle. is this the case? I feel like there has to be more to this.

Also after DP or Etincelle on block what are my best options? I know its slightly negative but I can never figure out what I'm supposed to do.

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2012, 12:43:49 AM »
im having a hard time as elisabeth against people who just jump at me. what am i supposed to do in these situations? It feels like she can control ground space so well but the air is kinda free to her opponents unless you preemptively do etincelle. is this the case? I feel like there has to be more to this.

Also after DP or Etincelle on block what are my best options? I know its slightly negative but I can never figure out what I'm supposed to do.

Yeah, I don't think she has good reactionary anti-airs. It's mostly going to be distance dependent and reacting accordingly.

If they are small jumping in your face then you have close s.C/D, or s.A to anti-air them but this is mostly done in anticipation of a small jump then reacting to it.

Normal Jumps or Super Jumps from a distance can be anti-aired with a trip guard c.B, or run under them and do a close s.D. You could also use c.C but it's pretty slow and can get stuffed. It'll depend on when the opponent attacks in the air.

In terms of special/desperation moves, her EX Etincelle is pretty much as close as you're going to get to a reactionary anti-air special move. EX Coup de Vent can sometimes act as an anti-air but more often then not it'll get stuffed or they'll block in time. A Etincelle has to be done sooner then later to act as an anti-air or using it to make reads in certain pressure situations. Her counter moves will let you get out of bad positioning while EX counter will let you get a free combo but these are susceptible to empty jump punishes.  Both of her desperation moves can anti-air and in fact her qcfx2+P does a good job of doing that.

After blocked DP's or Etincelle's you're not looking for a way in because of the frame disadvantage you're at. You pretty much ended your offense once you've done either of those moves. At that point you have to reposition yourself for your next set of offense unless you make a good read on your opponents next move.

Mienaikage

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2012, 05:37:41 PM »
I though standing ;a would do a decent job at anti air. Might not be very damaging but it does stop them. Also if you cancel it into ;dn ;df ;fd ;a it will connect if you CH.

jp_ftw

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2012, 06:46:13 PM »
Hey everyone! I'm totally new to KoF. I picked it up this week after watching some tourneys and my local guys playing it. I'm loving it right now, but I have a question about execution with Elisabeth.

For her  ;fd ;dn ;df ;a [DC]  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a I'm having a hard time not getting her DM when trying to drive cancel into the QCF. Is there any execution tips you all have for me?

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2012, 06:52:52 PM »
I don't play elizabeth, but you have the same problem with K'.

See, when you usually do a dp on a stick, you'll sometimes hit forward. Like this  ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd. When you try to do qcf  ;dn ;df ;fd, the game registers that as a shortcut because the qcf in the previous motion is read. So it does the super.

What you can do are three options:

You can do ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd and double tap the button very fast. This requires a bit of timing on button pressing, some have even suggested using the same strategy SSF4 players use for plinking, but how you do it is up to you.

You can shortcut the DP by making it hcb,f+P. This is not really a shortcut, but a LONGcut. For Elizabeth, you can do hcb, uf+P or hcb,df+P and that should give you the dp without doing her command grab.

The last method is perfect execution of the move. That means, without letting go of the stick, you go do the DP into the fireball motion. That takes some practice as you have to move the stick backwards to neutral down and do your fireball, but it's possible as long as you don't let the stick go (It usually hits forward if you do.)

It all requires practice, but I'm sure you're no stranger to it. Hope this helps!

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2012, 07:12:16 PM »
The easiest method to drive cancel off of her DP is to use the ;fd  ;dn ;df ;fd option, and then you just need to figure out the button timing. Timing wise, I just immediately press the corresponding button(s) as soon as I press the punch button for the DP. The only overlap that might occur with this method is if you are cancelling into her EX Etincelle, as you might get EX DP instead. From my experiences you can avoid that from happening by ending the shortcut with ;uf instead of ;fd.

Terrastorm

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2012, 08:16:40 AM »
Can anyone explain Liz's crossup setup with neutral jump b, I see the answer and Romance do it all the time.

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2012, 07:10:27 PM »
Can anyone explain Liz's crossup setup with neutral jump b, I see the answer and Romance do it all the time.

I'm not sure which setup you are referring to but I can hazard a guess.

After comboing 2 A Coup de Vent (DP+A), if you do a hyper hop j.A you end up landing behind your opponent for split second. You can do a hop j.B after wards and depending on the timing you'll get an ambiguous cross-up or not. Adding a delay to the hop makes it look like Elisabeth hits in the reverse direction that she jumped from. If you do the combo too close to the corner and you do a neutral hop j.B it'll be a really ambiguous cross-up/not cross-up.

Terrastorm

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2012, 08:50:47 AM »
Can anyone explain Liz's crossup setup with neutral jump b, I see the answer and Romance do it all the time.

I'm not sure which setup you are referring to but I can hazard a guess.

After comboing 2 A Coup de Vent (DP+A), if you do a hyper hop j.A you end up landing behind your opponent for split second. You can do a hop j.B after wards and depending on the timing you'll get an ambiguous cross-up or not. Adding a delay to the hop makes it look like Elisabeth hits in the reverse direction that she jumped from. If you do the combo too close to the corner and you do a neutral hop j.B it'll be a really ambiguous cross-up/not cross-up.
Thanks, that is exactly what I was asking for..

choysauce

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2012, 01:44:25 AM »
i think elisabeth is definitely reliant on her pressure/throw game and good hop spacing.

but i think having more setups with cross ups/unders and resets will make her game ridiculous. especially since going for super at the end of combos are not really worth the meter.

one unpractical one that i have is as follows.
regular throw midscreen > 1 step back > sj.D (only works if they don't tech roll. nobody does that =P)

some that are more obvious.
-j.D/roll after qcf,hcb+P super
-j.D/roll after command grab

run under
cr.B > cr.A > A DP > A DP > sj.A > run under > repeat (or meaty st.C)

let's keep on developing tech!

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2012, 07:37:14 PM »
i think elisabeth is definitely reliant on her pressure/throw game and good hop spacing.

but i think having more setups with cross ups/unders and resets will make her game ridiculous. especially since going for super at the end of combos are not really worth the meter.

one unpractical one that i have is as follows.
regular throw midscreen > 1 step back > sj.D (only works if they don't tech roll. nobody does that =P)

some that are more obvious.
-j.D/roll after qcf,hcb+P super
-j.D/roll after command grab

run under
cr.B > cr.A > A DP > A DP > sj.A > run under > repeat (or meaty st.C)

let's keep on developing tech!

Yeah, I rarely go for Grand Rafale anywhere juggles since the damage on it has been nerfed in the console version and the mix-ups that Elisabeth has is crazy.

I don't think her command grab is particularly good because of it's range, start up, and her average normals even though she can convert into big damage off of the EX version. That being said, Elisabeth having the threat of a command grab is really important because it increases her mind games significantly. What I think makes this mind game more effective is how Etincelle juggle states work.

Since you can combo into A Coup de Vent off of a CH or anti-air Etincelle you can condition people who are too twitchy or people holding up in block strings. I tend to try and gauge player habits with something like c.Bx2, A Etincelle and since c.B is not special canceable it creates a pseudo-frame trap so if the opponent pushes a button or tries to jump away they get hit by the Etincelle, which can be converted into 400-500 damage if it was a CH or preemptive AA. Once you realize the opponent is just sitting and blocking you can go for a command grab attempt and get them twitchy again or start baiting out reversals.

I've put all of my mix-up/setups that I know or have seen on the wiki so check it out if you haven't already.

BioBooster

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2012, 01:34:18 PM »
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elisabeth_Branctorche_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata

Betty frames up.

Yeah pity that grand rafale scales like mad (doesn't do so much to beging with at 150), all the way down to 50...

Some guys like nagihei will use it as an anti air, full dmg and if it trades you can juggle...