Author Topic: Leona Heidern (Console)  (Read 74885 times)

Inspectah Ed

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #195 on: May 21, 2013, 11:34:31 PM »
I'm glad I saw that video,I wasn't sure if anybody else was using it in their gameplay. That corner reset really does expands her mix-up game.

Inspectah Ed

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #196 on: June 09, 2013, 02:29:11 AM »
Juicebox's "quick-n-dirty" video for Leona...alot of good info for anybody who wants to pick-up Leona

Leona "Quick-N-Dirty"


Dr.Faust

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #197 on: June 10, 2013, 01:18:18 AM »
So I switched to a Korean stick recently and I'm having some issues doing Leon's V-Slasher( along with some other stuff but that will come with practice) I'm winding if doing the qcfX2~b short cut would be good to learn to help with the circle gate or should I just practice doing the move normally( which would be my preferred method). Also is it worth using these short cuts at all?
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Inspectah Ed

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #198 on: June 10, 2013, 01:15:00 PM »
So I switched to a Korean stick recently and I'm having some issues doing Leon's V-Slasher( along with some other stuff but that will come with practice) I'm winding if doing the qcfX2~b short cut would be good to learn to help with the circle gate or should I just practice doing the move normally( which would be my preferred method). Also is it worth using these short cuts at all?

I would do it the normal way.....I'm not even sure if using a circle gate would be better or not,but I never knew there was a short-cut motion for the V-Slasher.

mechanica

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #199 on: June 11, 2013, 11:19:59 PM »
I don't know if this is an issue for any other Leona players out there but it's driving me nuts.

Leona's HD starters

I find that the HD bypass route is SO much easier than anything else. She doesn't have much time to combo into her normals otherwise.

cr.B cr.B cr.B d~u/b+BC (then from u/b to forward or u/f+D for the HD loop). You can activate and do a special move at the same time and I find this confirm a shit ton easier than anything else for her. All you have to do is one input!

So I switched to a Korean stick recently and I'm having some issues doing Leon's V-Slasher( along with some other stuff but that will come with practice) I'm winding if doing the qcfX2~b short cut would be good to learn to help with the circle gate or should I just practice doing the move normally( which would be my preferred method). Also is it worth using these short cuts at all?
The "short"cut seems extraneous. Think about trying to hit u/f and or u/b in the motion. That helps me especially if I'm trying to do it raw as an anti-air or punish to a roll (i.e. through an earring bomb).

qcf, u/f, hcb+P gets me a jump forward V-slasher for further reach
qcf, hcb, u/b+P gets me a very low to the ground V-slasher for when I need it more quickly (i.e. they're very close to hitting me already)

I just played leona on an octo-gate the other day for the first time and V-slasher motion felt SO CRISP compared to my square gate. KOF motion supers are a little more intuitive without the corners (but I'll never switch from square gate and it helps me with her HD combo to have corners).
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sammy5m1th

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #200 on: June 13, 2013, 06:51:02 PM »
I've recently started to make it a point to find ways to combo into Leona's command overhead (and only hard knockdown).  I find that the thing is pretty unsafe to just throw out, even at range, since it's pretty punishable on block so comboing into would be pretty handy.  So far all I've been able to combo it in the corner after a long series of flash chops xx run chops (i.e. an HD) or after an ex earring bomb.  Unfortunately I haven't found any setups for the earring bomb one that I really like since comboing into bomb requires Leona to be either extremely close to her opponent (so one to two hits in advance) or the standard corner combo with flash chop xx ex bomb instead of run chop (thus burning a drive as well as a bar).

I've also been revisiting the ex ball reset (flash chop xx run chop, d.C xx ex ball).  I've found that if you do it all early enough and sub out d.C for s.A you can actually recover fast enough to block some of the slower reversals like Kyo's heavy DP, but I haven't been able to get it fast enough to beat out Karate's light DP, Kim's ex flash kick, or Shen's explosion (though it can recover in time to block ex bionic arm).  I'm also pretty sure it loses to every instant/invincible command grab for free unless you can walk back far enough to get out of throw range.  

As an alternative to the ex ball, I've also tried doing hop back j.A into ex xcalibur, which actually works fairly well to pin them down and keep Leona away from certain reversals that the ex ball will get tagged by.  That said just about every forward advancing reversal will catch her, and I haven't been able to sight the timing in so that if they block/get hit by ex xcalibur Leona can get a deep enough jump in to combo when she hits the ground without being left open to the faster reversals before her attack comes out.

Anyway, just figured I'd post what I've been working on in case anyone can make the ideas work better or already has working versions of them.

Inspectah Ed

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #201 on: June 15, 2013, 02:01:57 AM »

As an alternative to the ex ball, I've also tried doing hop back j.A into ex xcalibur, which actually works fairly well to pin them down and keep Leona away from certain reversals that the ex ball will get tagged by.  That said just about every forward advancing reversal will catch her, and I haven't been able to sight the timing in so that if they block/get hit by ex xcalibur Leona can get a deep enough jump in to combo when she hits the ground without being left open to the faster reversals before her attack comes out.

Anyway, just figured I'd post what I've been working on in case anyone can make the ideas work better or already has working versions of them.

That's pretty interesting tech, would you do the hop back j.a after the st.a or after the slash loop?

« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 03:32:04 AM by Inspectah Ed »

sammy5m1th

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #202 on: June 16, 2013, 06:29:38 PM »
What I was working on was either s.A to ex ball or hop back j.A to ex xcalibur.  That way you can cancel into whichever special since they both take a while to get going.

mechanica

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #203 on: June 17, 2013, 07:03:32 AM »
I find myself getting cmd grabbed out of resets into Baltic launcher (ball) but I like the idea of jump back x-calibur.

I just started using backdash X-Calibur (ex is really the useful one) when I'm in a pinch and need to surprise them.
Also I like to go for backdash V-slasher purely for wtf factor. Qcf, backdash~hcb+P works.

Also I've discovered the usefulness of mixing in crouch B st.A in pressure. You can link (maybe its a late cancel but it feels like a link) into s.B f.B for normal combos. Crouch B, back+A+D gives you a back throw OS if they are trying to roll out of the corner too. Just requires a slight delay in the string.
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Inspectah Ed

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #204 on: June 18, 2013, 11:26:01 PM »
What I was working on was either s.A to ex ball or hop back j.A to ex xcalibur.  That way you can cancel into whichever special since they both take a while to get going.

Ok I get it after testing it out in the TR,it's pretty good on keep the pressure on the opponent if they block after j.a or if they don't, you can combo into her super or do the ground super while the ex x caliber is still hitting them.

mechanica

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #205 on: June 20, 2013, 10:46:27 AM »
http://www.twitch.tv/seattlefootclan/b/419325914

Some friends/newer players and I had a casual session tonight - one of 'em plays Leona, but may not have a lot of interesting stuff to see as he's still learning...

I play her too though, and bust her out about 2h30m in. I play her for a good hour or so. *shrug*
http://www.youtube.com/pantailamon
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vandarkholme

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #206 on: July 30, 2013, 04:58:36 PM »
Hey, couple of questions...

Why is Leona considered the worst character in the game by a lot of people?
I know she isn't that terrible, because every character is viable in kof13, but what does she lack in conparision to the rest of the cast? Last time I played against a Leona player for the first time and I got wrecked hard by her instant overheads and the earring+her super against my fireballs. Are there some do and donts specific to playing against this character?

desmond_kof

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #207 on: July 30, 2013, 05:59:57 PM »
Hey, couple of questions...

Why is Leona considered the worst character in the game by a lot of people?
I know she isn't that terrible, because every character is viable in kof13, but what does she lack in conparision to the rest of the cast? Last time I played against a Leona player for the first time and I got wrecked hard by her instant overheads and the earring+her super against my fireballs. Are there some do and donts specific to playing against this character?

Around the game dropped a few notable players placed her in low tier range but she isn't low tier or the worst character at all. Honestly, coming from playing a few Leona players she can be very annoying, she has good mixups, good pressure, but I think her lack of good damage, her execution barrier for her HD combos, and that her special moves are only good in combos make her seem weaker than other characters. Hopefully some of the other Leona players can chime in on this because I don't know why she gets a lot of flack.
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Mr.Minionman

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #208 on: July 30, 2013, 09:36:42 PM »
Honestly that's become a rather big pet peeve of mine, Leona's just never been able to get over her initial stigma from the first impressions. I play with a rather decent Leona player quite often, and really, she has several BIG advantages that people just hardly give her credit for.

I suppose I'm no expert, so I won't be the most convincing voice, but I think she has some major advantages going for her; a fast overhead that goes over lows, a unique projectile that has amazing recovery which covers the hop arc and makes it near impossible to jump over safely (lest you risk a free V-Slasher), Several fast and forward moving pokes, fast movement speed, and almost complete control in the air to name a few.

Are there some do and donts specific to playing against this character?

Much of this seems to be character specific, but I think first and foremost against a watchful Leona player is to resist the urge to jump/hop unless they are completely unsuspecting(pretend it's Street Fighter, lo), because her air gimmicks, air-to-airs, and anti-airs are numerous and they'll usually hit very hard if she has meter. Also be cautious about anti-airing her because she has multiple ways to maneuver in the air (she has some of the best air normals in the game, an air special which is punishable, but will move her out of harms way, and an air super which will chunk you for trying).

It's clear that her weakest front is the ground, where all of her specials now have clear weaknesses that are important to understand:
- Moon Slasher is extremely fast, but has an easily punishable recovery. Treat as you would a reversal.
- Baltic Launcher will destroy any jumps or hops, and is VERY plus on block, but can be low profiled easily with a cr.lk or sweep
- The earring is similarly good for controlling approaches and starting pressure (also plus on block), but there is an area when it is at the top of it's arc where you can crouch under it and punish.
- For Grand Sabre, you just need to know that the short one is punishable, and the long one is neutral, but can be easily stuffed
- X-Calibur can stuff counter-pokes after blockstrings, but is punishable, the EX has a ton of plus frames, I advise GC rolling if you start blocking it.

After knowing all the tricks associated with her specials, you can focus on beating our her pressure game at neutral. her overhead is unsafe if she ends on it, and the special she can follow it up with is even worse, but her light attacks are hell on block and very fast(+2 on block on her cr.B >_>) and the sweep recovers quickly too (and I think it's whiff cancellable, not certain). I'd advise avoiding her jump in's if you can, because it's rather difficult to get out of her pressure once it starts.

Inspectah Ed

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Re: Leona Heidern (Console)
« Reply #209 on: August 01, 2013, 01:24:23 AM »
Hey, couple of questions...

Why is Leona considered the worst character in the game by a lot of people?
I know she isn't that terrible, because every character is viable in kof13, but what does she lack in conparision to the rest of the cast? Last time I played against a Leona player for the first time and I got wrecked hard by her instant overheads and the earring+her super against my fireballs. Are there some do and donts specific to playing against this character?

Around the game dropped a few notable players placed her in low tier range but she isn't low tier or the worst character at all. Honestly, coming from playing a few Leona players she can be very annoying, she has good mixups, good pressure, but I think her lack of good damage, her execution barrier for her HD combos, and that her special moves are only good in combos make her seem weaker than other characters. Hopefully some of the other Leona players can chime in on this because I don't know why she gets a lot of flack.

One of main reasons why is that she's a "Try hard" character compared to most of the cast.If you're play her,you really have to play precise....like when to use a Earring Bomb after a knockdown( alot of people forget about this) or using the correct Grand Sabre to keep the pressure on your opponent. I think Desmond covered most of the reasons why she doesn't get seen that often on stream....she's a strong character overall but you have to work hard to get the damage.