Topic: Tier List

[Saitsuofleaves]

Top players play to win. They will pick anyone they believe is good and give them the most chance of winning. They don't just pick random characters that they happen to like just because they are good players and can play anybody.

But again, they play who they want.  Tiers in this game are nowhere near defined enough to make an honest to goodness Tier Whore pick.  At best, you have counter picking, which isn't related to tiers, and that still can be avoided with proper order select moves.

[Tikok]

They don't play who they want. They tried a lot of characters and tried to find which ones are the best and suit them better. They're not "oh , I like Kula , I'm gonna use her for tournaments" .

Even if we have no defined tier list so far, they aren't just going to pick random characters that they happen to like. They will only pick a character if they believe that character is strong enough for competitive play.

[Saitsuofleaves]

And from the top players I know, from their perspective there ISN'T a character that's not strong enough for competitive play.

But please, since you're obviously a top player, tell me who's not worthy of even being used in competitive play.

[Tikok]

There are characters that definitely are worse than some , and those characters won't end up played a lot, it's pretty much a fact.

Of course every character is great in the right hands, especially due to how ridiculously fast you gain meter in KoF XIII, that doesn't mean all of them are as good as the top characters and can compete against them without being at a disadvantage.

Tiers matter. No competitive player plays a character simply because they like the character, they play that character because that character is good enough to face anyone in the cast without being at a significant disadvantage.

All the characters in XIII arcades were "strong enough to compete" too, all of them certainly were good and weren't lacking tools. Why do you think everyone picked K' and Raiden ?  

Do you seriously believe that people won't pick the top tiers in console XIII just because "everyone is strong enough to compete" ?

[Tanner]

^^ This in a PS2 KOF2k2UM Tougeki Edition Casuals in my place my friends pick K', Kasumi and King some Namelesses are there you would be disgusted at the mirror matches. I use K' since he was my favorite in 99 onwards but since his dominance in 2k2UM and Arcade XIII I have abandoned him.

This kind of thinking boggles my mind.  You refuse to play one of your favorite characters because he's good?  There's nothing dishonorable or whatever about picking good characters in a fighting game.  And unless you're winning every single tournament ever, the idea that you are challenging yourself by picking low tier characters doesn't really apply.

Like saitsuofleaves said, the tiers aren't very defined at this point in the game anyway so pick who you want to pick.  I personally tend to pick characters I have the most fun with, mainly because I tend to win more if it's a character I like to play.

I also think tier lists are a good thing if for no other reason than it creates good discussion about character's weaknesses and strengths.  

[Saitsuofleaves]

There are characters that definitely are worse than some , and those characters won't end up played a lot, it's pretty much a fact.

Of course every character is great in the right hands, especially due to how ridiculously fast you gain meter in KoF XIII, that doesn't mean all of them are as good as the top characters and can compete against them without being at a disadvantage.

Tiers matter. No competitive player plays a character simply because they like the character, they play that character because that character is good enough to face anyone in the cast without being in a significant disadvantage.

All the characters in XIII arcades were "strong enough to compete" too, why do you think everyone picked K' and Raiden ? 

Do you seriously believe that people won't pick the top tiers in console XIII just because "everyone is strong enough to compete" ?

Fine whatever, I give up, you win.  Everyone will tier whore, I obviously know nothing.  You win, everyone will pick the top tiers, and there's nothing to stop it, so we might as well head it off at the curve.

[Tikok]

 Of course everyone will pick the top tiers. That happens in every single fighting game , no matter how balanced it is.

Perfect balance doesn't exist to just allow players to pick anyone they like and compete with that character.

[Saitsuofleaves]

You're right.  I was completely wrong and wasted your precious time and for that I apologize for doing that by bringing up such a shitty argument.

[Tikok]

I know I am~

[the7k]

Well, there's something to be said for personal tastes.

Do tiers matter? Well, hell yes, of course they do. I just think that personal preference plays an even bigger part. If you have no passion for the characters you play, then you aren't going to have a passion for the game either.

In the end, I think that it's all just a matter of getting lucky. Did you put in work with characters you loved and then they turned out to be top tier? Lucky! Congratulations, the world is your oyster.  Did you put in work with characters you loved and then they turned out to be low tier? Sucks to be you! Now you have to decide - am I going to start all over from scratch playing characters I don't like just because they're good, or am I going to stick with the low tiers I have experience with and enjoy?

In any case, dropping a top tier character you love just because that character is top tier is probably the stupidest thing I've heard since SOPA.

[ELTRO]

Just pull off a umvc 3, place 2 characters you like then pick Wesker (aka anybody that is braindead good  ).

[ShadowStorm]

You're right.  I was completely wrong and wasted your precious time and for that I apologize for doing that by bringing up such a shitty argument.

Jesus, you're salty. Is that what you say every time you get straight up facts thrown at your face? It's true though, top players will only play who they think is the best, and fits their playstyle.

If 2 players of the exact same skill level would play against eachother with 2 different characters, then obviously, the player with the better character would win. So yes, tiers do matter. There is no way for every character in a fighting game to be just as good as all the others. There will always be some characters who are better than others. Has it never occured to you, that at tournaments, there are way more high tiers than low tiers?

Oh, btw, you obviously didn't mean anything you said in this quoted post, so please, feel free to throw all of your extremely valid arguments out here. I would love to read how terribly wrong you are.

[ELTRO]

cmon lets not make this a salty thread please 

[ShadowStorm]

I'm not. I would simply love to know how tier lists could possibly not matter.

[ELTRO]

It matters but KOF13 tier is still not as refined as other tittles imo. Also you have to consider play style of the player too. Whether they like zoning rushing down etc. Plus meter consumption also determine what character you would end up in your team.