The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread

[Diavle]

Yeah pretty sure C zaneiken has slower recovery.

[hiltzy85]

speaking of the safety of qcf+BD, i kind of feel like it may even be like +1 on block.  If definitely seems to be a good pressure tool in the corner. 
I don't know for sure offhand, but it seems to me that if you hit them with something like (optional jump CD, blocked) cl.C, f+A, qcf+BD, cr.B, s.B, s.D, qcb+A while they are blocking in the corner, it might be a guard crush.  I'm sure it isn't guaranteed, but if they try and punish your qcf+BD with something kind of slow, you might get them with a counter hit cr.B into the little combo.  If they keep blocking, they take pretty decent chip damage and what should be almost an entire guard meter.

I can't remember, but do blocked EX moves build meter for you?  I know hitting with them doesn't...

[Matt Alder]

You do not gain any meter on hit or on block from landing EX moves.

The blockstring j.CD, c.C (2 hits), f+A, hcf+BD, cr.B, s.B, s.D, qcb+A does a bit over 90% of the guard gauge. It's pretty solid for guard crush, but it builds so much super for the opponent that you'll get C+D countered very easily. Seems to me that there's not really much of a gap between hcf+BD and cr.B, but opponents could get out of they have a 1-frame grab like Kensou or Clark, etc. Still a very solid guard crush string. It works midscreen or in the corner.

The hcf+BD itself cuts off about 40% of the guard gauge and is completely safe. Seems to be +0 on block.

If you do use it for a guard crush and it crushes before the last hit of the move, the opponent becomes launched. You could turn this into a big combo with dp+A [DC] hcf+B [Brake]. This only works in the corner. Feel free to use it against grapplers, just be aware that if you try anything besides jump or C shoryu you'll be vulnerable to grabs.

As for Zan-ei Ken, the recovery of the A and C versions are virtually identical, -4~6 it looks like, but the startup of the A version is significantly faster. On block you cannot be punished by most characters, but by some. Shen comes to mind with EXDM, or Iori's EXDM. Basically it's too far to be punished by normals or grabs so opponents need a far reaching move that comes out in under 4 frames. EX Zan-ei Ken seems like it's -1 on block, cannot be punished by anybody as far as I know.

[Reiki.Kito]

This is from the frame data in the arcade.

Hopefully this will be useful for the discussion. Zaineken might have been changed, but for the most part, this holds true.

【Andy】
[W]/{S}/EX Zanei Ken(-10/-12/-3),[W]/{S} Kuuha Dan(-4/-5)
Kuuha Dan Braking(-4)

You can find it in the following thread: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1194.0

[Matt Alder]

I believe those numbers. I was just using my own eye to judge using training mode. Seemed like less negative frames than that, but certainly quite negative. Still too far to be punished by most characters, though I prefer not to use zan-ei ken outside of combos all the same. A and C seem to be identical recovery... but 2 frames is fairly insignificant. The startup is actually very significantly different.

Is there info on the EX Kuuhadan? I didn't see any frame data for it. I may be looking in the wrong place. It seems like +0 to me.

[metaphysics]

@ matt you can get GCAB rolled on the EX Kuuhadan for a full punish so I wouldn't use it if the opponent has meter, just something to consider

[Matt Alder]

Yes I actually wrote that in my initial post about using it for guard crush. It also gives people LOTS of meter on block, making it riskier. Thing is though, Andy should almost always be on point, and he builds meter very quickly, so for Andy to face an opponent with 0 stock is not uncommon. This makes it viable but not a common strategy.

[sibarraz]

I need advice for the Andy vs Benimaru Match Up

[BioBooster]

Ask solid, my beni has to put up with his andy from time to time and it ain't pretty.

What kind of stuff you running into against beni that's tough to overcome with andy?

[sibarraz]

Ask solid, my beni has to put up with his andy from time to time and it ain't pretty.

What kind of stuff you running into against beni that's tough to overcome with andy?

ALL xD

To be more precise, his pressure game, and then attacking him, his stand D, thunderballs, and Dp are annoying

[Matt Alder]

The loss of the invulnerability on Andy's hcf+BD from the arcade version is a huge setback in this particular matchup... Andy has trouble getting past Beni's qcf+A/C and j.qcf+A/C now. I have trouble with this one, too... I guess the worst matchup that a character with every tool has is a character that has a better version of almost every tool.

I can't really say that I know of any tips for taking out Beni... I just kinda try to whore cr.D and poke my way through the matchup.

[t3h mAsTarOth...!]

The loss of the invulnerability on Andy's hcf+BD from the arcade version is a huge setback in this particular matchup... Andy has trouble getting past Beni's qcf+A/C and j.qcf+A/C now. I have trouble with this one, too... I guess the worst matchup that a character with every tool has is a character that has a better version of almost every tool.

I can't really say that I know of any tips for taking out Beni... I just kinda try to whore cr.D and poke my way through the matchup.

Just found out that Beni can TK qcf+P to punish most sweeps... On top of this, he can link a s.D from it... So sweeping isn't a good idea if you over do it... I feel like the match-up is in Beni's favour... Andy has to get close to deal damage to Beni and Beni is can't be pressured recklessly... EX FB might be a big help in dealing with Beni throwing out Raijinkens...

[milesw]

Anyone got any tips vs billy.
His corner pressure is annoying as hell and I cant seem to keep him off me once hes in.

[sibarraz]

I need help against raiden

[Matt Alder]

I need help against raiden

Sweep the leg.