Author Topic: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!  (Read 50382 times)

Tye@l

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2012, 07:34:17 AM »
Thank you kindly, good sir, for all that info and the welcome!

I actually did hit the SRK wiki for KOF XIII before coming here and brushed up some on the game. But I appreciate the combo tips either way.

I tend to play a strong zoning/space control type game in any fighter. Imagine a circle around a fighter. With me, I basically play like 'This is my space. You don't come in unless I invite you'. Characters like Sagat, Guile, Chun-Li, Taskmaster, Chris, Trish, Hwoarang, Juri, and so on. Those characters all have strong normals and projectiles to put up a wall, which I like doing just to frustrate my opponent.

Since your post, I went through a few more characters and just tried some BnBs for everyone in the game, to get a feel for whichever is the easiest to pull off and if it fits my fight style. The first character so far that's clicked for me is Elizabeth. She feels fantastic to play, and she controls space fantastically well. And I can do her combos! Even her Super Cancels!! Also helps that KOF DOES have shortcuts, which I have be abusing judiciously.

solidshark

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2012, 07:59:07 AM »
For space control, I'd also keep Ryo in mind. His normals and fireball make him one of the best in that department to me, that and his parries are great once you can really utilize them. I've always thought of him as like a castle, heavy-hitting, sunken into the ground, and often ready for your attacks.
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Mankat

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2012, 11:36:18 PM »
Is there any shortcuts for doing HCB x2? I know that there is a Shortcut page and that has helped me in practice but I have problems doing the HCB x2 motion on a fightstick. If there isn't one time to grind me some motions
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Zeromurasame

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2012, 02:02:06 AM »


Sadly I'm out in Nevada, where there's no real local fighting scene, just EVO once a year. And I doubt my car could handle the summer trips from Vegas to LA and back again just to practice. And I keep odd hours as far as online goes, on top of being a complete n00b at the time of posting.



This may not be thread appropriate but Vegas actually has a decent scene for KoF with a few really strong players.

Mr.Minionman

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2012, 06:03:18 AM »
ok this is probably borderline super noob, but I've still been learning inputs and I keep running into hitches in real matches. I just recently noticed that I can't button mash the light normals and expect them to combo. Does this mean the game has some built in anti-mashing mechanism that i should break free from when trying to combo?

Also, how do inputs work on wakeup? I've tried to do things like wakeup reversals with king but i end up getting up and just standing there without doing anything.

And one more likely silly input question, I can't seem to get the jump-ins for  combos right... is there any secret trick that helps with that beyond perfect timing?

solidshark

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2012, 08:45:14 AM »
ok this is probably borderline super noob, but I've still been learning inputs and I keep running into hitches in real matches. I just recently noticed that I can't button mash the light normals and expect them to combo. Does this mean the game has some built in anti-mashing mechanism that i should break free from when trying to combo?

Also, how do inputs work on wakeup? I've tried to do things like wakeup reversals with king but i end up getting up and just standing there without doing anything.

And one more likely silly input question, I can't seem to get the jump-ins for  combos right... is there any secret trick that helps with that beyond perfect timing?

Here's my noobish attempt at answering some of these:

Doubt there's an anti-mashing mechanism in the game, I would just try to know my character well enough to see what combos the best. Not every light normal will combo, or even combo the same way. Something I learned the hard way when I had random select.

Wake-up inputs, I'm still learning that myself. With obserivng King the only input I've seen very successful with wake-up is EX Trap Shot; anything else doesn't seem reliable.

Jump-in's, I'd say aim for your opponents waist or lower. The arcade version use to be hitting upper body was ok and hitstun would let you continue. You have to adjust this and aim a little lower, almost right before you hit the ground. Took a lot more practice with me, but hopefully a lot less with you.
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davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2012, 01:07:02 PM »
Hey guys, I just wanted to quickly post here and apologize for the time it's taking me to answer your questions. I've just been soooo busy lately that I haven't found the time to do so. Rest assured that I'll answer everything within the next few days. Thanks for your patience!
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Mr.Minionman

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2012, 08:30:16 PM »
---

Here's my noobish attempt at answering some of these:

Doubt there's an anti-mashing mechanism in the game, I would just try to know my character well enough to see what combos the best. Not every light normal will combo, or even combo the same way. Something I learned the hard way when I had random select.

Wake-up inputs, I'm still learning that myself. With obserivng King the only input I've seen very successful with wake-up is EX Trap Shot; anything else doesn't seem reliable.

Jump-in's, I'd say aim for your opponents waist or lower. The arcade version use to be hitting upper body was ok and hitstun would let you continue. You have to adjust this and aim a little lower, almost right before you hit the ground. Took a lot more practice with me, but hopefully a lot less with you.

Alright that helps. I suppose that it's just a matter of putting in a bit more effort. That's the first thing I've noticed about KOF, it's way more mechanically strict then the other fighting games I've tried; BB, Smash, MVC3, etc

davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2012, 08:30:00 PM »

tl;dr version: Game is hard! Fighting Spirit is extinguished. How do specials and cancels?

I totally understand where you're at right now. Let me start by saying that I'm an 09'er (Vanilla SF4 was my first competitive fighter). When I first picked up KoF13, I couldn't do the simplest combos. It took me months (literally dozens of hours in practice mode in the arcade) before I could land anything consistently. I'm not even talking about landing it in a real match. I couldn't even do simple combos in practice mode. Even the IDEA of activating HD scared me.

There is no easy answer to this problem. Hard work and dedication are the only solutions to becoming good at this game. After reading your post, I want to take this opportunity to scream over the internet: DON'T GIVE UP! DON'T GET DISCOURAGED!! If I can do it, then anyone can do it. I was that guy that lost to everyone at the arcade. Literally, every person. But I stuck to it. I'll never forget the first time I actually landed an HD combo in a real match. It felt like Christmas. It was a magical moment haha, I'm not even exaggerating. Just knowing that all those hours had finally paid off, and that I was actually getting better, was soo worth it. It's that feeling that keeps me coming back.

The moral of my rant it, this game WILL reward the effort that you put into it, guaranteed. Keep your head up high and keep working hard, knowing that everyone who is any good at this game has done the same. I hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions!
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davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2012, 12:21:01 AM »
ok this is probably borderline super noob, but I've still been learning inputs and I keep running into hitches in real matches. I just recently noticed that I can't button mash the light normals and expect them to combo. Does this mean the game has some built in anti-mashing mechanism that i should break free from when trying to combo?

Also, how do inputs work on wakeup? I've tried to do things like wakeup reversals with king but i end up getting up and just standing there without doing anything.

And one more likely silly input question, I can't seem to get the jump-ins for  combos right... is there any secret trick that helps with that beyond perfect timing?

The game does not have any kind of mechanic which prevents mashing. Lets go over the two types of combos you can do with normals:

1. Links: When combo-ing light normals, such as cr. B x2 or cr. B cr. A, you are doing a link. This means that you have to wait until the recovery frames for your first normal to end before your second input will register. This means that links require specific timing. Mashing the B button still gives you many inputs, but if those inputs don't fall into the right time frame, your attacks will not combo. Combo-ing light normals is easier for some characters than others, depending on how much hitstun the normal gives you. For example, combo-ing cr. B for Leona is much easier than doing the same for Raiden.  The more hitstun the normal gives you, the wider the window is for a link.

2. Cancels: When combo-ing any regular normal into a command normal (direction + attack), you are doing a cancel. A cancel is different from a link because you are actually skipping (or canceling) the recovery frames of your first attack into the command normal. This means that you have a very wide window to cancel, compared to linking. If you land the first normal attack and then just mash the command normal, most likely it will always combo. Keep in mind that this is still not a good idea for high level play.

On wakeup, inputs work the same way as in any other situation. However, the window of time to do a "reversal" or wakeup move is much smaller than it is in most other fighting games out right now (SF4, SFxT, etc). If you do the inputs too early, you'll stand up and do nothing. If this is happening, practice doing the wakeup move a little later. If you do it too late, however, you are leaving a gap of time on your wakeup when your opponent can hit you. Timing wakeup moves is simply a matter of practice, and is extremely useful. Wakeup uppercuts are great in this game for some characters!

One of the biggest changes to the console version of KoFXIII is that hitstun on jump ins have been decreased significantly. This means that combo-ing off of a jump in has become harder. To combo successfully, your hit has to land fairly low. This again is simply a matter of practicing your timing and spacing. However, some characters can combo off of high jump ins. To do this, you need a very fast stand or crouch B. For instance, King can combo off of a jump-in into st. B in some situations where she could not combo into st. C or D. Kula also comes to mind as a character that can combo into cr. B off of relatively higher jumps.

Overall, the issues you are having can all be solved with time, patience, and lots of training mode. Remember that mashing in this game is NEVER a good idea. One piece of advice I have for execution in general is to start by learning your character's full HD combo using 2 meters, starting with a hop-in. This might seem unintuitive, but learning the HD combo starting with a hop-in will teach you every aspect of execution with your character at once, and will be extremely useful once you start playing real matches. I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any other questions!
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davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2012, 12:28:14 AM »
Is there any shortcuts for doing HCB x2? I know that there is a Shortcut page and that has helped me in practice but I have problems doing the HCB x2 motion on a fightstick. If there isn't one time to grind me some motions

I do not believe there is any shortcut for this that would realistically make it easier. When doing a half circle back, be sure to be hitting both diagonal directions. This input will become easier with KoFXIII: Climax. (I'm not a fan of this change, since I've put in tons of work to learn how to do it properly lol but oh well).
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KarnF91

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2012, 02:24:25 AM »
Earlier you mentioned that Shen is good at point as well, could you expand on that some?

Along those lines.  Since Shen is used at anchor because of what he can do with meter.  Players are looking for specific moves and try to guard against them.  With him playing as anchor do you think when someone plays him at point that it can throw off players? Do you think playing characters at points on a team where they might not be commonly used work in mixing up the game to gain some advantage?

Currently I'm putting a lot of time into Kyo Yuri and Shen.  With Kyo I'm having problems with dp+P to rdp+K drive cancel and canceling from hcb+K.  I'm sure the first is just a matter of timing, but the hcb+K I don't know what's going on there.

Thanks.

Sharnt

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2012, 09:53:19 AM »
ok this is probably borderline super noob, but I've still been learning inputs and I keep running into hitches in real matches. I just recently noticed that I can't button mash the light normals and expect them to combo. Does this mean the game has some built in anti-mashing mechanism that i should break free from when trying to combo?

Also, how do inputs work on wakeup? I've tried to do things like wakeup reversals with king but i end up getting up and just standing there without doing anything.
1. Links

2. Cancels
3. Chains : Some characters can chain cancel their lights, like Kim, Yuri, Kyo, etc. Thus they gain an easy confirm since you can mash d.B,d.B,s.B and confirm whether it's in guard or not.

I think the reversal window is pretty loose in this game, you must get the timing to do it but it comes quite fast. However king has only two invincible wakeups options : dp.BD, qcf qcf.AC, but be careful her dp move is easily safe jumpable, for the other one though it's really hard.


tl;dr version: Game is hard! Fighting Spirit is extinguished. How do specials and cancels?

The moral of my rant it, this game WILL reward the effort that you put into it, guaranteed. Keep your head up high and keep working hard, knowing that everyone who is any good at this game has done the same. I hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions!

I'm just completly agreeing to this. Seriously, if you play this game hard you will become better. And it won't be in 10 years, in this game you can progress really fast to a point where you can play against the best players. But don't lose time, it's only true because the game is still new.


Currently I'm putting a lot of time into Kyo Yuri and Shen.  With Kyo I'm having problems with dp+P to rdp+K drive cancel and canceling from hcb+K.  I'm sure the first is just a matter of timing, but the hcb+K I don't know what's going on there.

Thanks.
You're trying to do the dp.C rbp.B hd loop? Well can't really help since the last month it was totally impossible to do it for me. The last week I tried to do it again sucessfuly and now I can do it at 100% in training. I think it's just a matter of time to learn to do clean inputs. Keep in mind the buffer is loose, you must do the rdp.B just after the dp.C move and start to buff the dp.C at the end of the animation of the previous rdp.B.

To cancel the hcb.K you must do it really early, while kyo is still running you must input the move and press the buttons just before he lands in your opponent. Hopefully you can do the hcb.K while the qcf.D animation in the hd combo and thus have a really cool timing.

If you want I might be able to do a video next week once I'm able to lay a hand on the game.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 10:00:35 AM by Sharnt »
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davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2012, 07:04:15 AM »
Earlier you mentioned that Shen is good at point as well, could you expand on that some?

Along those lines.  Since Shen is used at anchor because of what he can do with meter.  Players are looking for specific moves and try to guard against them.  With him playing as anchor do you think when someone plays him at point that it can throw off players? Do you think playing characters at points on a team where they might not be commonly used work in mixing up the game to gain some advantage?

Currently I'm putting a lot of time into Kyo Yuri and Shen.  With Kyo I'm having problems with dp+P to rdp+K drive cancel and canceling from hcb+K.  I'm sure the first is just a matter of timing, but the hcb+K I don't know what's going on there.

Thanks.


Great question. First off, I just wanna say that your whole team is really awesomely top tier. Kyo, Yuri, and Shen is also the best order to play them in, IMO. So, good job! That's great that you enjoy those characters. They will bring you much success in the future.

So yeah, let's talk about Shen Woo. Hahaha where do I begin? Shen Woo is the ultimate badass. This is a list of his cheapest stuff:

1.) Jump CD. Shen's jump CD is probably the best jump CD in the game. As soon as it's active, it doesn't lose to any normal. This means that if jump CD is timed properly, you cannot anti air this move with ANY normal at all. You have to block. Also, you cannot win in any air-to-air situation unless you use an air super. If you can land a counter hit jump CD, you can follow up with very easy and damaging follow ups (like EX super).

2.) EX Explosion Super. This super is an instant start up super that does 312 damage regularly, and 390 damage on counter hit. It also grants around a 20% damage boost to all of your moves for 13 game clock seconds. This super is extremely effective in wakeup sitiations, as it will catch ANY jump/hop-in.

3.) Stand C. Stand C has guard point, and it's extremely fast compared to any other guard point move in the game. Abuse stand C in footsie range, since it cannot be beat by any mid/high hitting attack. However, it can be beat by lows. Watch out for lows with good range.

Besides that, Shen's Woo's damage output is simply among the best in the game, in any situation. Great point characters are defined by either the ability to build meter or great '1-meter 1-drive' combos. Great anchors are defined by the ability to make huge comebacks and have great midscreen HD combos. Shen Woo has all of the above. He is probably the best anchor in the game, as well as a great point character. People who play him on point don't do it to throw people off. They do it just because Shen is THAT solid.

Unfortunately, I don't know Kyo's combos. Hopefully someone else here can answer that Kyo execution question for you. I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any other questions!
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droX

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2012, 11:10:58 AM »
Hi
I would like to include HD combos in my game but i dont know exactly how to do it...
I have a terrible execution and i often think that i m wasting my time in training mode..

My main team is Ash, Clark and Benimaru is this order most of the time.
My first problem is that i don t know exactly which HD combo to learn and for which character... Clark dont have effective HD combos , Ash is played first and I did not see easy midscreen HD combos for Benimaru...

I m training a Iori (and Kyo before) but i don t feel confortable with rushers...   I play sometimes Ryo mr karate and Saiki...
I thought that my team can be played effectively without HD combos but that is so important in this game and so flashy ^^...  I need advices to define reasonable training goals and methods for training maybe...  Thanks for helping me