Topic: SF4 & The FGC - The Effect and Onwards

[solidshark]

One of the funniest things about SF4 feels like everyone's acute response to it, including my own. I can concede to SF4 being a resurgence, but I, like a lot of other people are willing to go only so far with praise is because of the game itself. It brought the crowd it brought because of it's brand-name and roster. Capcom played it as safe as it could and brought back the Street Fighter name, and every fighter that casuals and non-video game players knew on sight, plus new, Alpha, and III characters. Judging it then, it felt like an amazing 'meh'. Now it's a 'meh' 'meh', just by comparing it to it's peers this gen. Still good and fun to play, but not spectacular.

I would've wanted that kind of reception for SF3, where people would be happy that the series has changed things, that things at least looked to be moving forward. But, bad timing for III ('97 on I beleive people were getting tired of fighters), and a long haitus of the game simple and recognizable enough to most.

I wish someone could poll the FGC as is to see how much of the American fanbase or scene are playing more than just Capcom fighters; if Capcom games continue to get easier and unappealing, it could feel like Capcom giveth (the resurgenge) and Capcom taketh away.

[Tyrant292]

I was sarcastic when I said join Capcom Unity. I really had a bad time there. It's filled with childish people who think SFIV is the best fighting game because they didnt play any other fighting game (well there is no possible reason to think that really other than that) or that capcom games are soo good you cant even criticize them.

One of the funniest things about SF4 feels like everyone's acute response to it, including my own. I can concede to SF4 being a resurgence, but I, like a lot of other people are willing to go only so far with praise is because of the game itself. It brought the crowd it brought because of it's brand-name and roster. Capcom played it as safe as it could and brought back the Street Fighter name, and every fighter that casuals and non-video game players knew on sight, plus new, Alpha, and III characters. Judging it then, it felt like an amazing 'meh'. Now it's a 'meh' 'meh', just by comparing it to it's peers this gen. Still good and fun to play, but not spectacular.

I would've wanted that kind of reception for SF3, where people would be happy that the series has changed things, that things at least looked to be moving forward. But, bad timing for III ('97 on I beleive people were getting tired of fighters), and a long haitus of the game simple and recognizable enough to most.

I wish someone could poll the FGC as is to see how much of the American fanbase or scene are playing more than just Capcom fighters; if Capcom games continue to get easier and unappealing, it could feel like Capcom giveth (the resurgenge) and Capcom taketh away.

I had fun playing SFIV at first but the more I played it the more I hated it. I liked the game mostly because of the roster. Well, judging from SFxT I think they will make them easier and unappealing unless SFxT blows up in their faces.

[Proto Cloud]

One of the funniest things about SF4 feels like everyone's acute response to it, including my own. I can concede to SF4 being a resurgence, but I, like a lot of other people are willing to go only so far with praise is because of the game itself. It brought the crowd it brought because of it's brand-name and roster. Capcom played it as safe as it could and brought back the Street Fighter name, and every fighter that casuals and non-video game players knew on sight, plus new, Alpha, and III characters. Judging it then, it felt like an amazing 'meh'. Now it's a 'meh' 'meh', just by comparing it to it's peers this gen. Still good and fun to play, but not spectacular.

I would've wanted that kind of reception for SF3, where people would be happy that the series has changed things, that things at least looked to be moving forward. But, bad timing for III ('97 on I beleive people were getting tired of fighters), and a long haitus of the game simple and recognizable enough to most.

I think people are starting to get to the conclusion that SFIV isn't all that. Seeing how many Capcom people are jumping on SFxT because at least it's not boring. I do have to say I did enjoy it from the beginning, but it just was too slow coming from a background where I played KOF, GG and ST.

The reason SFIII failed miserably lies on its predecessors. It seems people forget just how atrocious and buggy NG and DI are. A lot of people either didn't care anymore after that or had never even heard that 3S existed. Mostly due to it not being marketed at all and not having a console release until anniversary edition.

I wish someone could poll the FGC as is to see how much of the American fanbase or scene are playing more than just Capcom fighters; if Capcom games continue to get easier and unappealing, it could feel like Capcom giveth (the resurgenge) and Capcom taketh away.

I don't think it took away anything. It brought new people that weren't there to begin with. It just seems like it took players away. I really think you guys underestimate this new generation too much, because I was hearing about how The Answer was talking about how most of the KOFXIII community are completely new to the scene, including Juicebox himself.

We came for SFIV and then we wanted more.

[solidshark]

I don't think it took away anything. It brought new people that weren't there to begin with. It just seems like it took players away. I really think you guys underestimate this new generation too much, because I was hearing about how The Answer was talking about how most of the KOFXIII community are completely new to the scene, including Juicebox himself.

We came for SFIV and then we wanted more.

As long as this keeps up, I'll be happy to be proven a pessimist over all this.

[Tyrant292]

The reason SFIII failed miserably lies on its predecessors. It seems people forget just how atrocious and buggy NG and DI are. A lot of people either didn't care anymore after that or had never even heard that 3S existed. Mostly due to it not being marketed at all and not having a console release until anniversary edition.

Well not just that, for some countries it was because of the console release, it was a dreamcast exclusive. Another reason because of the new roster it didnt appeal for most people and because their old characters are gone.Mostly fighting games were losing their juice at that time I think that affected it the most.

[Proto Cloud]

Not only that the DC was dead in the water here in the states from the very beginning, DI and NG came before it on the DC and were recieved poorly, there were very few cabs of 3S to begin with and the console version marketed the Anniversary edition of SFII first and 3S as a bonus. Basically, 3S had everything going against it.

[LouisCipher]

3S never took off for a variety of reasons some of which have been mentioned:

1: ZERO publicity for Next Generation coming to arcades in 97. I never knew a 3rd game came out and I read game magazines, I talked to kids about games, I was playing FPS online, I had an N64, etc. I never heard a thing about it coming out, same with 2nd Impact and the masterpiece 3rd Strike.

2: As mentioned, NG and 2I were terrible games. Bad balance, broken mechanics, with terrible music and voices. The sprite work was good and some of the backgrounds (nude hotsprings for one example) were pretty good but they couldn't overcome the other terrible shit with both games.

3: A port did not get released until 1999 on the Dreamcast, and it was a limited release with fuck-all publicity. The game wasn't re-released until 2004 in a compendium with a bunch of other SF games with -again- minimal publicity.

I'm convinced that Capcom wanted 3S to fail in America.

[Tyrant292]

It's funny and sad how great games are overlooked and neglected by their own companies not just by fans. That goes for everything not just fighting games sadly.

[Running Wild]

I remember reading a review for SF3 in I think it was EGM and they basically hated it because there were few characters with fireballs, few charge characters and they hated parrying.

[Saitsuofleaves]

You sure it was EGM?  Remember having an article that named it one of the best fighters of all time (this was years ago and my memory is pretty shoddy so I might be misremembering).

[LouisCipher]

Some dude on SRK pointed out that a game magazine did a BIG feature on 3S coming out on DC... but it was one of those DC only magazines owned by Sega so.

[Proto Cloud]

You sure it was EGM?  Remember having an article that named it one of the best fighters of all time (this was years ago and my memory is pretty shoddy so I might be misremembering).

Yeah, that'd be out of character for EGM, because they were a few reviewers back in the day that actually played fighters decently. I think that might have either been Game Informer or Game Pro.

If I was Capcom, I would've skipped NG and DI entirely after they were received badly and just went straight for 3S. It would've probably done better, but I think the expert mechanics, the advent of 3D fighters and the wacky new cast would've hurt it anyway. I just wonder what would've happened if they released the final version of SFIII like they originally expected they would?

[LouisCipher]

No, the game isn't that hard. I would say MVC2 is harder because of all the shit you have to memorize to stand a chance. Parrying is nothing but muscle memory and reaction. That's it.

The casuals back in the day didn't get into because of 3D fighters like you said, but to reiterate, the majority of them had no idea the game was even out.

In this AVGN video http://youtu.be/OEVzPCY2T-g?t=24s he sounds legitimately surprised when there was a street fighter 3. Not saying James Rolf is a video game expert but he certainly represents the everyman. And if you talk to anyone that played SF2 a lot or had 2-3 versions of the game and ask them about the 3rd game chances are they never heard of it.

I am absolutely convinced that Capcom wanted to bury the title. There may have been some internal shit and the producer or whoever is affiliated with the game like the coders for example may be despised by an executive at Capcom. It's not so crazy when you think about it.

Remember that show The Critic? Amazingly funny show, did good ratings on Fox, but it was cancelled on Fox because the new president in charge wanted to eliminate all the programs green-lighted by the former guy in charge and ordered his yes men to not laugh when watching The Critic in his presence.

It could happen.

[solidshark]

I ended up liking all the SF3's. Even with their inherent problems, it seemed like Capcom took a big step forward with SF (bigger than Alpha), even if most people thought it was more like side-stepping. I must've been one of the few to notice that they released an SFIII (NG I think), and was happy.

I am absolutely convinced that Capcom wanted to bury the title. There may have been some internal shit and the producer or whoever is affiliated with the game like the coders for example may be despised by an executive at Capcom. It's not so crazy when you think about it.

Remember that show The Critic? Amazingly funny show, did good ratings on Fox, but it was cancelled on Fox because the new president in charge wanted to eliminate all the programs green-lighted by the former guy in charge and ordered his yes men to not laugh when watching The Critic in his presence.

It could happen.

You make a convincing argument, though I'd hope the yes men thing was really false. I still love The Critic too.

[Proto Cloud]

No, the game isn't that hard. I would say MVC2 is harder because of all the shit you have to memorize to stand a chance. Parrying is nothing but muscle memory and reaction. That's it.

It really is. (Boy, does everyone here act like every game is easy mode now?) There's a lot you need to get down to even think of making high level play. Parrying is already hard to grasp from the get go, then add karas, footsies, reads, and even to the point of character specific combos. At least with Marvel 2, the two main things that made a player good was execution and a good team. Marvel has little to no mindgames, that's why I liked Marvel 3 because it now has strategy and the possibility for comebacks. There's not even that much to memorize, it's actually more muscle memory and reactions than you pointed out for 3S. People make out Marvel to be like rocket science when it's anything but that.

I also liked the Critic.