Author Topic: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread  (Read 13695 times)

Splurgendii

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2012, 10:13:50 PM »
Hey guys

I Love the wiki, i've learned alot of information from them and i'll continue reading them in the near future to up my game, appreciate what you guys have done and admire the passion.

Would you guys know where I can find a source for more thorough frame data?
The wikis don't seem to have frame data for some characters and for the characters that DO have frame data the chart is not as thorough as SF4

Where as sf4 frame data charts cover start up, active, and recovery + what the moves are on hit and block
the charts i found so far only have start up and guard advantage/disadvantage

I can't seem to find anything better from searching on google
if anybody know a better source i'd appreciate a heads up...
If not, is there some strategy guide out that has all this information?

thanks

desmond_kof

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2012, 05:56:27 PM »
Hey man, the SRK KOFXIII wiki has a few character frame data tables with columns on recovery, frames on hit, etc.

Thanks for the compliments!
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Diavle

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2012, 06:05:32 PM »
Hey guys

I Love the wiki, i've learned alot of information from them and i'll continue reading them in the near future to up my game, appreciate what you guys have done and admire the passion.

Would you guys know where I can find a source for more thorough frame data?
The wikis don't seem to have frame data for some characters and for the characters that DO have frame data the chart is not as thorough as SF4

Where as sf4 frame data charts cover start up, active, and recovery + what the moves are on hit and block
the charts i found so far only have start up and guard advantage/disadvantage

I can't seem to find anything better from searching on google
if anybody know a better source i'd appreciate a heads up...
If not, is there some strategy guide out that has all this information?

thanks

Doubt you'll find a better source. SNK didn't release such info and whatever we have we have thanks to the efforts of keykakko, who gets the data by personally recording video and doing his magic with it.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 06:07:05 PM by Diavle »

Splurgendii

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2012, 11:26:28 AM »
this upsets me to a great degree

solidshark

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2013, 03:57:30 AM »
Has anyone checked this out yet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?pli=1&key=0AsrvpuirdQzwdGM0UDlRcGozMkJBQVZES0F4Zmw1MGc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=0

This seems to be everyone's data except Maxima and Robert. Not sure how different this is from what is on the DC wiki. Professor from MMCafe noted some things about some of the King data already:

-normal (Suprise Rose) is 4F and EX is 3F
-King's neomax is 1F, not 0

Can anyone check some of this data out for characters you know?



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desmond_kof

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2013, 04:12:36 PM »
Has anyone checked this out yet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?pli=1&key=0AsrvpuirdQzwdGM0UDlRcGozMkJBQVZES0F4Zmw1MGc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=0


Cool, but I bet there are some slight differences and errors compared to some other frame data guides that are done by other people, so it's always good to compare the numbers.

Also on a side note, would anyone here be interested building a general KOFXIII FAQ for beginners and those coming from other games? Nothing too terribly deep but something quick and easy for people to read to help new players?
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Sharnt

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2013, 04:02:12 PM »
I have but one stupid question : WHY??? people write wiki part while not knowing the game and such missleading someone IN A GUIDE?

There are a lot of huge misstakes from there to there that friends of mine were talking about (since I don't read this myself), some I remember :


Chin WIKI
Quote
CONS :
 
-even if you do, normals have limited reach
-Specials are mostly unsafe
-Overhead cannot activate HD (due to it being in the air)

It's just false! The exact opposite in fact ...


Doing a wiki is a looooooooooooooot of work, so why are you letting ppl without any knowledge on this game doing this?


It piss me off because this site and the community are really great, and hearing people mocking it just make me feel bad :c
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desmond_kof

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2013, 04:49:41 PM »
What you are saying isn't true. Kane317 wrote Chin's wiki who is one of the most knowledgeable Chin players around. If there are mistakes and errors (or things do you not agree with) do the right thing and point them out for they can be fixed and edited. Just focusing on the problem and not giving a solution wont help. Go to the characters wiki thread and point out things that are incorrect, and give us a correction.

Here is Chin's thread if you want to tell Kane your options: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1767.0
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Kane317

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2013, 06:16:32 AM »
I have but one stupid question : WHY??? people write wiki part while not knowing the game and such missleading someone IN A GUIDE?

There are a lot of huge misstakes from there to there that friends of mine were talking about (since I don't read this myself), some I remember :


Chin WIKI
Quote
CONS :
 
-even if you do, normals have limited reach
-Specials are mostly unsafe
-Overhead cannot activate HD (due to it being in the air)

It's just false! The exact opposite in fact ...


Doing a wiki is a looooooooooooooot of work, so why are you letting ppl without any knowledge on this game doing this?


Hey Sharnt, I'm quite confused what you're pointing out.  

After maining him since XII (and really before XII but he's so different back then), since day one of XIII arcade, I still maintain what I wrote in the wiki to be true but I am not infallible either:

1/ His normals have limited reach.  I don't think that's a very subjective statement; it might be relative, but he's the smallest characters in the XIII roster and in this case has one of the shortest reach if not the shortest.
2/ His specials ARE mostly unsafe.  He only has two safe moves which aren't specials technically, they are EX Specials.  Both counters, both versions of qcb P (non-EX) are unsafe.  Anything you free cancel off the hcf K including df B is punishable.  Df D is also punishable. Once again, only his Ex hcf K and Ex qcb P are -1.
3/ You cannot activate HD off his overhead.  You can after you follow up his overhead into stance cancel s.C.  

I also wrote ^that back in the arcade days when he didn't have the s.C cancel from d x2+K but those statements are still true unless I'm mistaken which I will gladly correct if that's the case.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 06:42:54 PM by Kane317 »

Kane317

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2013, 06:26:12 AM »
-King's neomax is 1F, not 0

King's NM when done in the air, is 0F.  Test it yourself, try jumping at the opponent, right when you're at about 1'0 clock of the character do the NM, AFTER The screen flashes try holding block--it won't work.

If you weren't blocking before the flash you will eat the NM.  This much I know is true as I remember testing this back at Atlus, in fact it was Yu Namba (project manager for XIII console release) himself who showed it to me.

Sharnt

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 08:03:02 PM »
1/ His normals have limited reach.  I don't think that's a very subjective statement; it might be relative, but he's the smallest characters in the XIII roster and in this case has one of the shortest reach if not the shortest.
2/ His specials ARE mostly unsafe.  He only has two safe moves which aren't specials technically, they are EX Specials.  Both counters, both versions of qcb P (non-EX) are unsafe.  Anything you free cancel off the hcf K including df B (which is technically listed as a command move) is punishable.  Df D is also punishable. Once again, only his Ex hcf K and Ex qcb P are -1.
3/ You cannot activate HD off his overhead.  You can after you follow up his overhead into stance cancel s.C.  

I also wrote ^that back in the arcade days when he didn't have the s.C cancel from d x2+K but those statements are still true unless I'm mistaken which I will gladly correct if that's the case.

1/
Globally yes he his short in his normals, but he has some of the best long range moves in this game, his far C comes in 6 is cancelable and goes hella far, his j.CD, doesn't have a long reach but the hitbox is so fucked up that it works in the same way you can't win into the air against him. d.B moves him forward while hitting, it makes for the short range and allows him to be one of the few character that can do something like d.B,s.A,d.B,s.A
And you know what? It has more range than Kim d.B, the character known for having long legs.

Hit slide goes quite far too.

2/
In the frama data you're right. In game it's a bit different. The hcf.K are unpunishable without a fast invincible SDM because of the canceling properties, and the pushback. Because else if you can punish it with a long range normal into an hd combo the delaying of the cancel will certainly screw your timing. This move is a weird rekka, you can't punish it for sure without it costing a lot of meter (2Ex for the few ones with the SDM for doing that).

The counters are definitively punishables (The whole match up turns around punishing those).

qcb.P are punishables if close but the problems is the same than with the hcb, because of the pushback you often ends too far away, and anyway a Chin won't do this move in guard if it's too easily punishable because he has no interest into doing it.


Lot of char have -10+ or so moves but they can still use it because in fight you can't punish them for doing that that much easily.



3/
Here it's my fail i copy pasted it but the people who talked about this understood it has "He can' hd after his overhead"
So if it's not true litterally you might want to remove it for clarity purpose.

-King's neomax is 1F, not 0

King's NM when done in the air, is 0F.  Test it yourself, try jumping at the opponent, right when you're at about 1'0 clock of the character do the NM, AFTER The screen flashes try holding block--it won't work.

If you weren't blocking before the flash you will eat the NM.  This much I know is true as I remember testing this back at Atlus, in fact it was Yu Namba (project manager for XIII console release) himself who showed it to me.

The same way i thought King EXSDM was 3 frames (instead of 2), the NM is 0. It's just you can't tell the difference between 0 or 1 frame with a regular test, same thing goes for weird hit box which make things seems slowers.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 08:05:24 PM by Sharnt »
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Kane317

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2013, 12:23:34 AM »

1/
Globally yes he his short in his normals, but he has some of the best long range moves in this game, his far C comes in 6 is cancelable and goes hella far, his j.CD, doesn't have a long reach but the hitbox is so fucked up that it works in the same way you can't win into the air against him. d.B moves him forward while hitting, it makes for the short range and allows him to be one of the few character that can do something like d.B,s.A,d.B,s.A
And you know what? It has more range than Kim d.B, the character known for having long legs.

Hit slide goes quite far too.

I think what you're trying to say that there are ways around it and this being a very balanced, if not the most, kof-- he still has tools.  Choi, Bao, Malin and Chin to name a few still could hold their own but it doesn't change the fact they don't have the reach of Billy, Yashiro, Yamazaki, Daimon, Raiden etc...

You make it sound like I've given up hope on him due to his shorter reach--I still main him today.  

I'll elaborate on the wiki to list some of his options you mentioned.

2/
In the frama data you're right. In game it's a bit different. The hcf.K are unpunishable without a fast invincible SDM because of the canceling properties, and the pushback. Because else if you can punish it with a long range normal into an hd combo the delaying of the cancel will certainly screw your timing. This move is a weird rekka, you can't punish it for sure without it costing a lot of meter (2Ex for the few ones with the SDM for doing that).

The counters are definitively punishables (The whole match up turns around punishing those).

qcb.P are punishables if close but the problems is the same than with the hcb, because of the pushback you often ends too far away, and anyway a Chin won't do this move in guard if it's too easily punishable because he has no interest into doing it.


Lot of char have -10+ or so moves but they can still use it because in fight you can't punish them for doing that that much easily.

Regarding the hcf K:  Even if you don't have the character speed to dash up or stocks to blow on a punish, you can still vertical hop Chin when you see him roll and he cannot free cancel on whiff so he's still very punishable.  Don't forget you can d B his normal versions.

All the frame talk aside, I would consider Karate's a qcf P palm safe and when compared to that, I wouldn't consider Chin's hcf K hard to punish.

3/
Here it's my fail i copy pasted it but the people who talked about this understood it has "He can' hd after his overhead"
So if it's not true litterally you might want to remove it for clarity purpose.

Agreed, I'll expand on that.

Sharnt, please let me know anything else we can improve on.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 12:25:59 AM by Kane317 »

JuiceboxAbel

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2013, 10:43:05 AM »
I would love to help, let me know if you think there's something specific I can do. I'm really good at explaining things in layman's terms.
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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2013, 04:32:23 PM »
If you guys have any need for Terry, Duo Lon, or Iori help! I'm the man.

desmond_kof

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Re: Dream Cancel KOFXIII Wiki Community Project Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2013, 06:35:40 PM »
I would love to help, let me know if you think there's something specific I can do. I'm really good at explaining things in layman's terms.

If you guys have any need for Terry, Duo Lon, or Iori help! I'm the man.

Okay!

I have a little assignment for you guys. If you haven't yet, I want you two to look at the pages for the characters you main and are learning. Read through the whole page from top to bottom then take note of anything you find interesting, needs correcting, typos, errors, things that are inconsistent, combos that don't work, strategies that don't make sense, and things that are missing.

Then post your notes here in this thread, with a plan and list of changes that you would like to implement and we will go from there.

EDIT: better yet, post your list of changes and editing plans in a specific character's wiki building thread like for example: Terry's: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1746.0 Leona's: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1753.0
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 09:08:35 PM by Desmond Delaghetto »
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."