Author Topic: Guaranteed grabs?  (Read 2642 times)

Mienaikage

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Guaranteed grabs?
« on: July 15, 2012, 07:43:07 PM »
Been doing some experiments in training mode and noticed that at a certain point when an opponent hits the ground they're forced to turn around before they can jump.

This is the vulnerable frame:


There are a couple situations where I've seen it happen (if the opponent uses the recovery roll):

If Duo Lon uses Rekkas then uses another Rekka after he's teleported to the other side, the opponent will roll into him and will have this vulnerable frame while turning around.

With Vice if you use a point blank sweep then use her C DP grab afterwards (not cancelled) she'll hit the grab on the other side of the opponent.

The picture with Clark is the frame where the opponent lands after jumping over them, as far as I can see this is the only frame where it will work.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Guaranteed grabs?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2012, 07:50:48 PM »
So basically, on a backturned knockdown, an opponent could be hit with a delayed grab and they can't do anything about it.

However, what about the 11F of throw invulnerability people have? Raiden recovers the fastest in the game after a knockdown, but other than that, that 1 frame where they're vulnerable negates throw invulnerability too? I don't get what you mean exactly. That'd be pretty stupid though (As most grapplers can set a H.KD situation off their command grabs and have enough time to roll behind people for a back-turned situation.)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 07:52:29 PM by Reiki.Kito »

Mienaikage

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Re: Guaranteed grabs?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 07:57:33 PM »
So basically, on a backturned knockdown, an opponent could be hit with a delayed grab and they can't do anything about it.

However, what about the 11F of throw invulnerability people have? Raiden recovers the fastest in the game after a knockdown, but other than that, that 1 frame where they're vulnerable negates throw invulnerability too? I don't get what you mean exactly. That'd be pretty stupid though (As most grapplers can set a H.KD situation off their command grabs and have enough time to roll behind people for a back-turned situation.)

Using the recovery roll negates the invulnerability. The opponent could opt not to do so but you can catch them if they do. It also works if the opponent jumps over you/you go under them while they jump.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Guaranteed grabs?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 08:25:40 PM »
Yea, I understand that teching forfeits invulnerability, but if you tech a knockdown, you're always facing your opponent. You don't get a back turned situation in that case.

LouisCipher

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Re: Guaranteed grabs?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 08:35:32 PM »
Good find dude!

Only other guaranteed grab sorta' kinda' I can think of is if Clark lands Sweep and uses Step (x2) and if the opponent quick rolls you should be able to grab them or if they try to jump out you toward C or D will still hit them.
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Mienaikage

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Re: Guaranteed grabs?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 08:45:16 PM »
Yea, I understand that teching forfeits invulnerability, but if you tech a knockdown, you're always facing your opponent. You don't get a back turned situation in that case.

My examples with Vice and Duo Lon force the opponent to turn around at the end of their recovery rolls.

raisedbyfinches

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Re: Guaranteed grabs?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 11:04:47 PM »
As interesting as those two examples are they aren't really all that applicable. At least in the sense you're indicating.

For Vice to be throwing out point blank sweeps and confirming that the opponent tech rolls to do the dp is nigh on suicidal. If the opponent doesn't tech roll, then do you get a free punish on the whiff? If so then Vice should really never do it.

Duo Lon will be taking ~50 damage off of an already low damage bnb. This is more applicable only in the sense that you're making your opponent not want to tech so you get free fireball oki. But you lost ~50 damage along the way and are slowing down the pace of the game. Perhaps allowing your opponent to collect themselves.


This makes the back turned situation not really that useful.

The forfeiting of throw invulnerability I thought was already common knowledge?

« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 08:43:42 AM by raisedbyfinches »

Mienaikage

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Re: Guaranteed grabs?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2012, 09:59:58 AM »
I'm not saying these are examples of good or effective strategies, these are just instances of where the glitch does work. It's more of a proof of concept than anything else.