KOF XIII 9th General Thread: New Year, New EVO, New Challenges in 2013

[desmond_kof]

Things in my scene are still very small. We have a small amount of dedicated players and we are always looking for new players but people still have this limiting belief of "KOF IS HARD". Even though we share information and various ways to help them, it is still hard to increase the numbers. So, I guess its probably best to just keep playing, representing, and not worrying or trying too hard to convert players to KOF.

[yamazaky96]

KOF02um is still the most popular KOF here (played competitively in all of our arcades)
most of them didnt play KOFXIII because we dont have it on arcades yet and some of them say the game is easy and cheap....
however CafeID (MadKOF, Poongko and Kensouzzang) will be my guests in Dubai from 7th to 10th of march
and we are planning to make a good event
so now players are taking KOFXIII seriously and practicing the game more for the event...

[solidshark]

however CafeID (MadKOF, Poongko and Kensouzzang) will be my guests in Dubai from 7th to 10th of march
and we are planning to make a good event
so now players are taking KOFXIII seriously and practicing the game more for the event...

That's awesome; hope everyone has a lot of fun there, and hope a lot of guys will take notes from CafeId too, at least the ones who aren't so good at XIII.

[venusandeve]

...people still have this limiting belief of "KOF IS HARD".

Des, I've been playing around with other fighters and TBH, KoF IS kinda hard. It's not unrewarding hard, but it has a steep learning curve if you compare it to, say, GG or SG. Although the strategic layer has enough to learn, execution is key. And no assists to bail you out or set stuff up.

[desmond_kof]

Des, I've been playing around with other fighters and TBH, KoF IS kinda hard. It's not unrewarding hard, but it has a steep learning curve if you compare it to, say, GG or SG. Although the strategic layer has enough to learn, execution is key. And no assists to bail you out or set stuff up.

That's a limiting belief too. People need to quit insulting their own intelligence and realize that the game can be understood and learned properly. People saying the game is hard are giving up already. Every new and different fighting game can be difficult to learn at first (like any sport, or skill) but once you take the time out and practice, research information, ask questions and gain experience, you can improve and learn it.

[marchefelix]

People need to quit insulting their own intelligence

Unfortunately, this is a problem that goes beyond the FG scene. In trying to overcome that, you would actually be attempting to fix a problem of the human race in general: that they think they are too dumb to do anything or that they are content with being dumb.

/philosophy crap

[Tyrant292]

Well said Desmond and Marchefelix. It's kinda of a paradox but we have to work our way around it.

About Dubai I'll try to go not making any promises. It's something I really don't want to miss.

[Inspectah Ed]

Des, I've been playing around with other fighters and TBH, KoF IS kinda hard. It's not unrewarding hard, but it has a steep learning curve if you compare it to, say, GG or SG. Although the strategic layer has enough to learn, execution is key. And no assists to bail you out or set stuff up.

That's a limiting belief too. People need to quit insulting their own intelligence and realize that the game can be understood and learned properly. People saying the game is hard are giving up already. Every new and different fighting game can be difficult to learn at first (like any sport, or skill) but once you take the time out and practice, research information, ask questions and gain experience, you can improve and learn it.

I agree with everything that's been said so far...it's funny because there was argument within my local scene about KOF XIII rather the game was hard or not was one of the many subjects about it.

[desmond_kof]

Des, I've been playing around with other fighters and TBH, KoF IS kinda hard. It's not unrewarding hard, but it has a steep learning curve if you compare it to, say, GG or SG. Although the strategic layer has enough to learn, execution is key. And no assists to bail you out or set stuff up.

That's a limiting belief too. People need to quit insulting their own intelligence and realize that the game can be understood and learned properly. People saying the game is hard are giving up already. Every new and different fighting game can be difficult to learn at first (like any sport, or skill) but once you take the time out and practice, research information, ask questions and gain experience, you can improve and learn it.

I agree with everything that's been said so far...it's funny because there was argument within my local scene about KOF XIII rather the game was hard or not was one of the many subjects about it.

I'm not going to lie, I do believe that certain fighting games today have been dumbed down quite a bit compared to games in the past, so to have a game as throughout as KOFXIII may seem daunting to them. Players don't find a new challenge exciting or interesting nowadays.

I'd rather have people calling the game "different" rather than "hard". Plus there is good information here and other places to help people learn the game and understand whats going on. All you gotta do is use your brain.

[The Fluke]

As i see it, the things that make people think that kofxiii is hard to learn is A) it's not sf4 even though it may seem similar B) it's fast. When you have to constantly act quickly you need to practice, alot of things have to become second nature, you don't have time to think and then think again. Strings are generally very lenient in kofxiii, but as they are generally faster than strings in sf4, most players who are used to to those are probably thrown off. Beginners might not even be able to cope with it at first, but the thing with fast strings and inputs is that it's only "hard" for so long. If you just keep playing it all gets easier and easier. All it takes is time, and this is really the problem as alot of people simply don't want to go through the process of learning a new fighting game.

[Personal story]I have a couple of friends i play offline with, less and less sadly. We played sf4, i got bored and bought mvc3 just to get to play something else. Two of my three friends enjoyed that game with me for a couple of sessions, neither of those two actually wanted to buy it though. I wasn't really into mvc3 but i looked forward to mortal kombat so i got that. We played it and two of the three enjoyed it, the third complained about it being stiff and about all the ways it differs from sf4. No one bought it, though the possibly least likely person to do so actually sat down and practiced combos and later on i got him to buy and play ttt2 with me. Come kofxiii i actually got two of them to buy the game, we played for a few sessions and they seemed to enjoy it though not equally between them or us. One of the two practiced a bit, the other started to complain over time about me practicing too much and that it's uneven, ultimately getting to the point that we should be playing sf4 because it's more even, more fair.

Kof might still get more popular over time as people might slowly gain an interest and get a taste for the games as they get stream time and if they get popular enough, the whole "it's too difficult" thing will probably be forgotten.

[solidshark]

Maybe KOF should just be referred to as harder/deeper than SF, but manageable. If you want to throw some opinion in there like I do sometimes, you can say "KOF will actually help you get better at other fighters, and show you things you wish other fighters had."

I'm in with Desmond in thinking FGs have been dumbed down, and people have just gotten used to that. But even in those dumbed down games, there's a lot of undiscovered tech, and even characters. As daunting as it seems to be to watch some KOF streams, nothing gets a newer player motivated than showing him or her what he can do with said character, especially one fewer people play.

Come kofxiii i actually got two of them to buy the game, we played for a few sessions and they seemed to enjoy it though not equally between them or us. One of the two practiced a bit, the other started to complain over time about me practicing too much and that it's uneven, ultimately getting to the point that we should be playing sf4 because it's more even, more fair.

I've known players like that (those types still piss me off a bit). They really don't make it any easier than having to lose to them or go over step-by-step how to succeed in KOF. But it's kind of telling when they say you're practicing too much, like it's a bad thing. As I'm assuming you're also beating them in SF too thuroughly, I'd say keep playing KOF around them, otherwise they're just looking to mess around with the latest fighter out, with the one that rewards the least amount of practice.

[venusandeve]

That's a limiting belief too. People need to quit insulting their own intelligence and realize that the game can be understood and learned properly. People saying the game is hard are giving up already. Every new and different fighting game can be difficult to learn at first (like any sport, or skill) but once you take the time out and practice, research information, ask questions and gain experience, you can improve and learn it.

KoF is was the first FG I learned to play. I can't play SF because of how weird having one jump type feels to me.
What I mean is, in KoF, you don't get to hit confirm with a 4+ hit combo like marvel or BB. Light hits have so little hit stun it's harder to combo into other stuff and heavy hits are risky. Hitstun from jumping heavies isn't that long and became even shorter post patch. Cancelling windows are much tighter than most current gen fighters and last but not least: In KoF there's a game of chess going on where movement is concerned. If you jump, you can't block. If you j.attack, you can't use another normal. AB roll? Vulnerable at the end and can be thrown.  Hit a juggled opponent? He resets to neutral. You can only hit on the lower portion of a juggled opponent (mature's NM for instance, won't hit an enemy falling down).

I'm not an ambitious player, I'll give you that. And I can kind of manage my way around a stick. But coming back to KoF after long periods of playing something else always means woodshedding.

Now that's said, I'll add this: I hope the next KoF feels a bit more modern. KoF was cutting edge when it first came out (first game with supers) but right now, it feels rather rigid and some things are plain dumb. Not being able to OTG, not being able to punch twice in a jump, really small hitboxes on falling opponents, no air recovery (EVEN LAST BLADE 2 HAD IT!!), specials that don't link for the sake of not linking and above all, moments in which you can't really do anything (Leona's J.qcb+A comes to mind...).

I'm not "just" feeling challenged any more. I'm bored too.

[The Fluke]

@venusandeve; Otgs exist, EX iori can pick people up with EX grabby thing for example, like anywhere juggles not everyone has them though. I'd like to see takuma get his otg punch back, just for the fun of trying to get that one extra hit. Giving some characters single hit otg moves would be cool just to create a new mixup around recovery rolls. Multiple attacks in the air wouldn't do much imo unless they also add air block or parrys, wich i could gladly go with though i don't personally think it's needed. Only hitbox issue i've had is that ryo has a hard time comboing backturned opponents for some reason. I don't get what air recovery would add to the game, you're generally not in the air for extended periods of time. When you get hit you're either stuck in a combo you probably shouldn't be able to recover out of, reset, or knocked down. Being able to reset opponents with normals is great, i like having that option, it's great for characters who can combo off of throw's for example, so they can quickly reset and immediately get back to dealing big damage.

What things specifically are dumb?

@solidshark; I have no clue, i have barely played sf4 in maybe up to 3 years now. I might be able to play footsies and do some basic combos, but i really don't know how things would go now.

[desmond_kof]

If you jump, you can't block. If you j.attack, you can't use another normal.

I stopped reading here...

[Great_Dark_Hero]

Personally, I do not see what the big deal is. KOFXIII is not really that complex to play, even if you do intend to play on a competitive basis.
The whole "KOFXIII is hard" outlook is only an illusion. The thing about KOFXIII (and the series in general) is that there is a lot of things to note of, such as the jumps, the rolling, the GC series, and the ability to utilize three characters in a match - among other things. The real problem stems from players that might have an issue making adjustments if they come from different fighting games such as SFIV for example. It's not that KOFXIII is hard, it is just a matter of making adjustments so that players can play the game properly. Should the players need help to learn how to play KOFXIII seriously, they can just come here and ask for help - Desmond mentioned that FAQS would probably be a big help to new players coming from different games earlier in the thread discussion.