Author Topic: Duo Lon (Arcade Version)  (Read 43480 times)

metaphysics

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2011, 06:43:58 AM »
Yes!! Kane 317 Duo Lon CHEAT SHEET!!

Page 6 final post
" you fight well in the old style"

FataCon

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2011, 08:47:58 PM »
Quote
s.A seems to be the popular choice after the Rekkas since it seemingly setups the mix up of hop B --> air.f+B timing much easier.  Otherwise use s.C for sightly more damage.

s.C does more than s.D? I don't really remember off the top of my head, but I do know that I used s.D instinctively at times.

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If the f.BD is landed from full screen you can do f.A (from where you are) into qcf+B or qcf+D.  The light version will put you pretty much in the front and the strong version will drop in you in the back.

Is the f+A supposed to hit?

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After a blocked d.A, do an Ex qcf+K and you should be right behind them and it's very hard for an opponent to react even with the little block stun that d.A has.

Oh ok, I mentioned this in one of my messages, asking if this was legit or not. It worked pretty well whenever I used it, granted it was used sparingly. Thanks for the confirmation on this one.

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Air-to-air j.C should be your choice of poison, sometimes the downward angle of the j.D makes you misses a lot of opportunities that you should have won the air battle; I noticed that against Ralf and against Andy.

After rewatching my matches, I actually did notice it a lot, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. I guess I should keep the j.D for grounded opponents.

Two things I'd like to ask:

1) Isn't there a cross-under mixup from a juggle? Is it a CH air-to-air > j.f+AC > dash? I tried everything else but I couldn't get behind, so I'm thinking that's it?

2) I think I asked you before when Kunio was here, but I don't really remember. The wiki doesn't state any damage difference between A and C rekkas, so are there any height/distance property differences after the last hit? The reason why I ask is because after grounded combos using a f+A, I noticed that both you and Kunio both use A rekkas, in which the first hits whiffs. However, if you use C rekkas, all 3 hits connect. I was curious if A rekkas have any tactical advantage in this situation. Also, a difference in properties could affect the mixups, but thats only if there actually is any difference confirmed.

Without any actual proof and just from feeling it out, the A version comes out faster, but the C version has slightly more range. That's the only thing I can think of when differentiating the two.

Anyway, thanks for the tips and hopefully I get more playtime so I can try out more things.

Yes!! Kane 317 Duo Lon CHEAT SHEET!!

Page 6 final post

P.S. Where are my Ryo and Terry cheat sheets, meta?  ;)

Demoninja

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2011, 09:07:23 PM »
I think I can answer some of this.

s.C does more than s.D? I don't really remember off the top of my head, but I do know that I used s.D instinctively at times.

The wiki says s.C and s.D deal the same damage so that leads me to think that Kane was talking about dealing more than s.A

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Is the f+A supposed to hit?

I believe it should. The f+A should reset them into the perfect distance for the teleport mixup.

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Two things I'd like to ask:

1) Isn't there a cross-under mixup from a juggle? Is it a CH air-to-air > j.f+AC > dash? I tried everything else but I couldn't get behind, so I'm thinking that's it?

I asked this exact same question before haha. Here's the video and Kane's explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Za51Qrgjc (16:48)
However to answer you question, most likely you can control which side you'll be on by dashing.  For example, if you do a j.CD into air.f+AC (it'll connect even if the j.CD isn't a "counter" and the air.f+AC is optional) you can dash underneath them or choose to stay on the same side.  The j.CD into air.f+AC setup can be preceded by rekkas [DC], f+BD

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2) I think I asked you before when Kunio was here, but I don't really remember. The wiki doesn't state any damage difference between A and C rekkas, so are there any height/distance property differences after the last hit? The reason why I ask is because after grounded combos using a f+A, I noticed that both you and Kunio both use A rekkas, in which the first hits whiffs. However, if you use C rekkas, all 3 hits connect. I was curious if A rekkas have any tactical advantage in this situation. Also, a difference in properties could affect the mixups, but thats only if there actually is any difference confirmed.

Without any actual proof and just from feeling it out, the A version comes out faster, but the C version has slightly more range. That's the only thing I can think of when differentiating the two.

Way too technical and beyond me o.o I remember Isaiah saying that A rekkas punish some stuff that C rekkas can't so I kind of assumed it was faster as well.

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Anyway, thanks for the tips and hopefully I get more playtime so I can try out more things.

 Yeah man try to head out to SF soon! I heard way back that Eric the arcade operator of both SFSU and SJSU was trying to get a KOF 13 board for SJSU as well but we never heard back after that.


Kane317

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #93 on: July 15, 2011, 12:52:42 AM »
Demoninja answered most of them anyways but...

s.C does more than s.D? I don't really remember off the top of my head, but I do know that I used s.D instinctively at times.

Sorry for the confusion, I did mean s.C does more than s.A/d.A.

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Is the f+A supposed to hit?

Yep.

Oh ok, I mentioned this in one of my messages, asking if this was legit or not. It worked pretty well whenever I used it, granted it was used sparingly. Thanks for the confirmation on this one.

Yeah I know you mentioned it over text, just wanted to post it here.   It's a very viable tactic due to it's sheer speed but be careful as technically the Ex teleport can be punished as it ends still.

Two things I'd like to ask:

1) Isn't there a cross-under mixup from a juggle? Is it a CH air-to-air > j.f+AC > dash? I tried everything else but I couldn't get behind, so I'm thinking that's it?

You don't even need a counter hit if you use the air.f+AC; just do j.CD --> air.f+AC --> dash forward.  If you do get a j.CD "counter", just j.CD again before going into air.f+AC.  If you time it just right you should be able to do dash, vertical j.B --> air.f+B but I have to experiment with it some more (I did see it in an a-cho video).

2) I think I asked you before when Kunio was here, but I don't really remember. The wiki doesn't state any damage difference between A and C rekkas, so are there any height/distance property differences after the last hit? The reason why I ask is because after grounded combos using a f+A, I noticed that both you and Kunio both use A rekkas, in which the first hits whiffs. However, if you use C rekkas, all 3 hits connect. I was curious if A rekkas have any tactical advantage in this situation. Also, a difference in properties could affect the mixups, but thats only if there actually is any difference confirmed.

Without any actual proof and just from feeling it out, the A version comes out faster, but the C version has slightly more range. That's the only thing I can think of when differentiating the two.

Anyway, thanks for the tips and hopefully I get more playtime so I can try out more things.

Kunio couldn't find any difference either.  I feel that the A version can be done slow and fast whereas it feels like the C version can only be done at one speed.  I'll test it again when I'm at the arcades next.

FataCon

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #94 on: July 15, 2011, 04:46:36 AM »
2) I think I asked you before when Kunio was here, but I don't really remember. The wiki doesn't state any damage difference between A and C rekkas, so are there any height/distance property differences after the last hit? The reason why I ask is because after grounded combos using a f+A, I noticed that both you and Kunio both use A rekkas, in which the first hits whiffs. However, if you use C rekkas, all 3 hits connect. I was curious if A rekkas have any tactical advantage in this situation. Also, a difference in properties could affect the mixups, but thats only if there actually is any difference confirmed.

Without any actual proof and just from feeling it out, the A version comes out faster, but the C version has slightly more range. That's the only thing I can think of when differentiating the two.

Anyway, thanks for the tips and hopefully I get more playtime so I can try out more things.

Kunio couldn't find any difference either.  I feel that the A version can be done slow and fast whereas it feels like the C version can only be done at one speed.  I'll test it again when I'm at the arcades next.


The reason I brought this up was because you lose out on damage simply because the first hit is whiffing when using the A version. I mean, I'm not sure if it's true on all combos regarding f+A > rekkas, and maybe the C version might not even work for some. Just something I noticed, that's all.

Thanks again Kane and Demo for your quick replies. I'll try to get on it again soon to see if I can think of anything else and actually put these tips to use lol

Kane317

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #95 on: July 21, 2011, 08:27:39 PM »
Adding this to his video collection here and the first page post archive of course.

EDIT: This is really a point of reference for myself, but this illustrates that DL's Ex teleport is not safe:
1. Renzo vs Kane317 - 7/24 Southtown Arcade KOFXIII Ranbat (5m33s)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 03:03:58 AM by Kane317 »

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #96 on: August 18, 2011, 11:01:43 AM »
So, just to be safe: The console changes for Duo so far include:

Better f+AC, that leaves Duo with more advantage, one way of the other. (Either by faster recovery or more hitstun to the opponent).

Stronger Neomax: 448 rather than 400.

I'm also pretty sure the ;a button fireball start time was sped up, but I don't see this in your initial notes, Kane, though I believed you mentioned it. This one was true as well, right?

Was there any more to note? I'm quoting the info to a guy on Gaf, and I don't wanna steer him wrong, lol.

Demoninja

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #97 on: August 18, 2011, 11:08:19 AM »
Adding this to his video collection here and the first page post archive of course.

EDIT: This is really a point of reference for myself, but this illustrates that DL's Ex teleport is not safe:
1. Renzo vs Kane317 - 7/24 Southtown Arcade KOFXIII Ranbat (5m33s)

I just saw this, but I don't think you can conclude that ex teleport isn't safe. You got counter hit which means you pressed a button so isn't it very possible for you to block after that?

FataCon

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2011, 07:34:59 PM »
EX teleport is not safe. You can get hit during any portion of it's duration, whether it's start-up, active, or recovery frames. Granted, it's a pretty quick move, but I don't think there are any invul frames. So, if you get too predictable using it, you'll get stuffed out by quick pokes.

Kane317

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2011, 09:52:12 PM »
Better f+AC, that leaves Duo with more advantage, one way of the other. (Either by faster recovery or more hitstun to the opponent).

Stronger Neomax: 448 rather than 400.

I'm also pretty sure the ;a button fireball start time was sped up, but I don't see this in your initial notes, Kane, though I believed you mentioned it. This one was true as well, right?

I wrote it later on, maybe I should update my page 1 notes for the console thread.  The A projectile, qcb+A, is definitely much faster and very noticeable as well.  The Ex f+AC allows you to now either do a s.C/s.D, s.A-->s.C, or just straight rekkas; it's real good now.

You forgot the most important change is his ability to cancel out of his f.A, when [DC] into, without wasting another [DC]. Before it was: rekkas, [DC] f.A, [DC] rekkas--> making it pretty wasteful of a drive.  Now it's: rekkas, [DC] f.A, rekkas x3-->...

I just saw this, but I don't think you can conclude that ex teleport isn't safe. You got counter hit which means you pressed a button so isn't it very possible for you to block after that?

I saw that too before I first posted, but it's considered a "counter" because I was still in my teleport, not because I attacked.   Either way, I've been punished before and the end or at the beginning many times.

EX teleport is not safe. You can get hit during any portion of it's duration, whether it's start-up, active, or recovery frames. Granted, it's a pretty quick move, but I don't think there are any invul frames. So, if you get too predictable using it, you'll get stuffed out by quick pokes.

There's slight invincibility in the middle of the teleport (confirmed by the technical references) but not at the beginning or at the end.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 10:18:05 PM by Kane317 »

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #100 on: August 18, 2011, 11:09:40 PM »
Ahh, the one about Fwd A -> Rekkas _> Fwd. A I surely did forget. This should effect the number of reps he can achieve in HD mode too, right?

All his changes seem very smarly implemented, so that's great to hear. Thanks for the info, of course!

marchefelix

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #101 on: September 19, 2011, 07:49:04 AM »
Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.

A semi-projectile, maybe?

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2011, 12:51:15 PM »
Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.

A semi-projectile, maybe?
In arcade it's used for a dangerous mix up that puts him in a 50/50 situation. From the console version through EVO shows that his projectile speed buffed up which means  his projectile is safer by faster start up and great force block situations that can lead to *cheeseburgers* (guard crush). His fireball isn't a great tool to use as a fireball game because his jump in attack speed makes up for it.

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marchefelix

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2011, 03:03:29 AM »
Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.

A semi-projectile, maybe?
In arcade it's used for a dangerous mix up that puts him in a 50/50 situation. From the console version through EVO shows that his projectile speed buffed up which means  his projectile is safer by faster start up and great force block situations that can lead to *cheeseburgers* (guard crush). His fireball isn't a great tool to use as a fireball game because his jump in attack speed makes up for it.

Just what exactly do you mean by "50/50 situation"? I don't get what that means...

Mr.KOF

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Re: Duo Lon
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2011, 03:28:56 AM »
Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.

A semi-projectile, maybe?
In arcade it's used for a dangerous mix up that puts him in a 50/50 situation. From the console version through EVO shows that his projectile speed buffed up which means  his projectile is safer by faster start up and great force block situations that can lead to *cheeseburgers* (guard crush). His fireball isn't a great tool to use as a fireball game because his jump in attack speed makes up for it.

If the Duolon does st.C into fireball and anticipates a slow reactioned jump in from the opponent would result in eating a cr.C. If the opponent jumps in automatically after a badly timed fireball then  it is still possible to trade hits by duolons cr.C. Duolon's a character that relies on 50/50 setups.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 08:02:02 AM by Kane317 »

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