Author Topic: Clark Still (Arcade Version)  (Read 46531 times)

bigvador

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #135 on: October 13, 2011, 05:54:08 AM »
j.C, ("cr.B, cr.A" or "S.D"), A Gatling Attack, Vulcan Punch (1hit), [DC] Ex Gatling Attack, C Gatling Attack, Vulcan Punch, A Gatling Attack, j.D...

you should be able to replace the second vulcan punch for an EX version and follow-up with SAB/UAB...

Nope, the Ex Vlucan punch only allows a follow up on the ground, this is a juggle.

well couldnt he finish up with the throw in the air j AC i think it was instead of a reset

The thing with his air throw is that it's kinda dependent on how the opponent is hit right before it (and how it makes them spin), basically if you see ppl go for the j.D chances are the air throw won't work.  

e.g A Gatling, A Gatling, j.D works but air throw does not.

WOW what BS i mean here you got raiden ending his combos with his throw (even tho it is a command) and yet clark cant really finish his the right way.

i believe the only thing he could have done was his Neo Max (even tho he did have 3 stocks) im tellin ya he needs a real combo finisher at least
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 07:03:16 AM by Kane317 »

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #136 on: October 15, 2011, 07:45:49 PM »
so far liking the changes on Clark for the console version... a faster f+BD and auto-guard on weak SAB... all good... kind of confused about the vulcan punch being able to cancel... do they mean that we will be able to cancel vulcan punch into any special without DCing?
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SAB-CA

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #137 on: October 15, 2011, 08:44:07 PM »
Lets bring the changelist into this thread, so others can know what we're talking about:
Quote
Clark
* His Stepping (Forward+BD) is faster
* Weak SAB has full-body autoguard but comes out slower than before
- EX SAB > Flying Elbow can be [strike]MAX[/strike] SUPER canceled
- EX Gatling Attack's invincibility runs out when its hit detection comes out. Projectile invincibility doesn't, even after hit detection comes out.
- If Fierce or EX Gateling gets blocked, the Afterattack throw won't come out any more
* Vulcan Punch can be canceled with another move on startup. This allows for some new combos like close Fierce punch (2nd hit)>VulcanPunch>SAB

Producer Yamamoto says: He's a throw character so we've buffed his throws. With moves like his Weak SAB, his front step, and being able to do a super cancel from a 1-frame throw, he should be able to fight like a real thrower.

I'm wonder about his Vulcan punch canceling, too.

The video had him HD cancelling Vulcan punch GATTLING ATTACK (I always mix up these names, argh.) into ANOTHER Gattling Attack, which I didn't think was possible under this game's system. So what EXACTLY is he doing?

If he really gets free SAB's out of Vulcan Punch, that'd be a nice addition to his game, bordering on broken, lol. It would return his ability to make his throws a threat at a distance, and give him a new grapple-centric midscreen B&B. Bah, once again, I'm mixing up Gattling and Vulcan, lol. Gattling free Cancel would be near-broken, Vulacan cancel would just be a nice extra bit of damage, but it might help him build some meter, plus give him new cancels, potentially?

The Video in question, BTW:

KOFXIII既存キャラ調整1

Clark portion starts at 36 seconds, the Gattling cancel combo starts at 43 seconds.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 12:52:41 AM by SAB-CA »

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #138 on: October 15, 2011, 11:00:55 PM »
I'm wonder about his Vulcan punch cancel, too. The video had him HD cancelling Vulcan punch into ANOTHER Vulcan punch, which I didn't think was possible under this game's system. So what EXACTLY is he doing?

If he really got free SAB's out of Vulcan Punch, that'd be a FANTASTIC change to his game, bordering on broken, lol. It would return his ability to make his throws a threat at a distance, and give him a new grapple-centric midscreen B&B.
in the video he did...

s.C *2 hits*, HD, cr.C, b~f+C *2 hits*, HDC, b~f+C *2 hits*, HDC, b~f+C, vulcan punch, HDC, NM...

so do they mean we can cancel gatling attack into gatling attack now? instead of cancelling vulcan punch into something else? no idea... either way... really thankful to SNK for the buffs for Clark... he really needed those... the weak SAB will be an excellent anti-air like dp+K was... and his front step seems to be just perfect... a 50/50 game of whether he'll grab you after he hops... or he'll continue his pressure string...
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bigvador

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #139 on: October 16, 2011, 12:37:46 AM »
I'm wonder about his Vulcan punch cancel, too. The video had him HD cancelling Vulcan punch into ANOTHER Vulcan punch, which I didn't think was possible under this game's system. So what EXACTLY is he doing?

If he really got free SAB's out of Vulcan Punch, that'd be a FANTASTIC change to his game, bordering on broken, lol. It would return his ability to make his throws a threat at a distance, and give him a new grapple-centric midscreen B&B.
in the video he did...

s.C *2 hits*, HD, cr.C, b~f+C *2 hits*, HDC, b~f+C *2 hits*, HDC, b~f+C, vulcan punch, HDC, NM...

so do they mean we can cancel gatling attack into gatling attack now? instead of cancelling vulcan punch into something else? no idea... either way... really thankful to SNK for the buffs for Clark... he really needed those... the weak SAB will be an excellent anti-air like dp+K was... and his front step seems to be just perfect... a 50/50 game of whether he'll grab you after he hops... or he'll continue his pressure string...

but i still think he lacks a proper anti air i mean valcan punch can get the job done but if the opponent is hopping and mixing it up i dont think you would want to take that risk and even for weak SAB it comes out in 1 frame (i think) so if he takes a hit in the air wouldnt the grab come out before opponent land?

Aenthin

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #140 on: October 16, 2011, 01:53:15 AM »
In the video, it says Vulcan Punch.

Just a theory though. Supposing that wasn't a Gattling Attack chain, but rather a Gattling Attack > Vulcan Punch > Gattling Attack chain. It's just that Vulcan...was cancelled on startup before the hit detection frames appear, just like what the changes say.

In other words, it's not that Gattling Attack is chaining itself, they're canceling Vulcan Punch even before you get a chance to see him move.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 02:01:50 AM by Aenthin »

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #141 on: October 16, 2011, 02:13:19 AM »
I corrected my incorrect names in the post above... I get Gattling and Vulcan mixed up too often. Sorry for any confusion!

but i still think he lacks a proper anti air i mean valcan punch can get the job done but if the opponent is hopping and mixing it up i dont think you would want to take that risk and even for weak SAB it comes out in 1 frame (i think) so if he takes a hit in the air wouldnt the grab come out before opponent land?

The new Autoguard is in no-way itself a 1-frame move, as the autoguard is part of it's startup. It could be a very solid anti-air really, depending on what you're getting attack by. For example, it could totally shut down basically any diving attack in the game (Phoenix Arrow, Musasabi no Mai, etc), and do more damage in return than a DP.

Don't forget he also has an Air throw.

I know it's not exactly the same as a command-motion Death Lake Driver AA, but it's still decent options, placed right alongside his Vulcan punch.

In the video, it says Vulcan Punch.

Just a theory though. Supposing that wasn't a Gattling Attack chain, but rather a Gattling Attack > Vulcan Punch > Gattling Attack chain. It's just that Vulcan...was cancelled on startup before the hit detection frames appear, just like what the changes say.

In other words, it's not that Gattling Attack is chaining itself, they're canceling Vulcan Punch even before you get a chance to see him move.

A good theory, and one that's very likely. So the HD cancel would do cancelling the Gattling into the Vulcan punches, and the Vulcan to Gattling is a free cancel.

Considering both moves kinda re-float in corner juggles, could clark get a nasty, drive-meterless corner juggle out of this? Plus some nice Drive-using midscreen combos that let him link more moves and damage, for fairly low cost? Guess we'll have to wait & see!

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #142 on: October 16, 2011, 05:30:40 AM »
I personally think that Napalm Stretch would fix this hole thing.
It could work just like Raiden's Bomber. If you made the normal version, you need to get ahead of the opponent, with ex version, you just win in the air no matter what.
Napal Strech with give him a semi-anti air, plus que would get another command throw (he is a grappler but only has 1).
I think that would made Clark dangerous and would also allow him to fully exploit mind games....wich is what grappers and best at.

bigvador

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #143 on: October 16, 2011, 06:46:37 AM »
I corrected my incorrect names in the post above... I get Gattling and Vulcan mixed up too often. Sorry for any confusion!

but i still think he lacks a proper anti air i mean valcan punch can get the job done but if the opponent is hopping and mixing it up i dont think you would want to take that risk and even for weak SAB it comes out in 1 frame (i think) so if he takes a hit in the air wouldnt the grab come out before opponent land?

The new Autoguard is in no-way itself a 1-frame move, as the autoguard is part of it's startup. It could be a very solid anti-air really, depending on what you're getting attack by. For example, it could totally shut down basically any diving attack in the game (Phoenix Arrow, Musasabi no Mai, etc), and do more damage in return than a DP.

Don't forget he also has an Air throw.

I know it's not exactly the same as a command-motion Death Lake Driver AA, but it's still decent options, placed right alongside his Vulcan punch.

i thought it was a 1 frame weak SAB was a 1 frame move and when the auto guard ends it still comes out in 1 frame??

I personally think that Napalm Stretch would fix this hole thing.
It could work just like Raiden's Bomber. If you made the normal version, you need to get ahead of the opponent, with ex version, you just win in the air no matter what.
Napal Strech with give him a semi-anti air, plus que would get another command throw (he is a grappler but only has 1).
I think that would made Clark dangerous and would also allow him to fully exploit mind games....wich is what grappers and best at.

agreed i mean adding a anti air with all his otha buffs would have made him more complete (at least to me) but just lookin at clark as a grappler by itself then i would say hes way behind compared to some otha grapplers even though that hop is the best tool any grappler can have....

but its like i said before XIII is real combo based and it seems like grappling characters dont belong and the ones who are in have good strikes to do combos and to keep it rolling in HD (come to think about it i havnt seen goro in HD drive)

I do find it odd how clark has gatling attack and yet ralf dont have SAB..... im just sayin

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #144 on: October 16, 2011, 01:46:40 PM »
guys honestly at this point i see no point on asking for more... if every grappler had every option, none of them would be unique... imo, so far XIII has done an excellent job on making characters unique... they even took cookie cutter characters and made them awesome... in XIII all the grapplers are quite different...

Raiden... freaken top-tier... has a multi-throws, multi-tackles, multi-DMs, acid spits, cross-ups, DROPKICKS... great in any position... anything else you wanna add SNK? maybe a full screen unblockable grab? hahahahaha...

Vice... versatile grappler... has short/long range grabs... ground/air grab DMs... shoulder tackles... Liz's s.A anti-air > EX > ... like combo... good as a battery or second...

Goro... most pure grappler... a grab for every situation... ground/air/otg/invincible grabs... counter NM *571 dmg*... command rolls... ground pound... counter wire... good as a battery...

Clark... only throw character with just 1 command throw... good pressure game now with improved f+BD... anti-air options improved with auto-guard SAB... really good juggle potential... good as a battery...
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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #145 on: October 16, 2011, 04:51:40 PM »
Nagare_Ryouma: He should be able to work those same Mindgames with Faster Step + Air throw, though. (Step -> SAB), (Step, 2nd Step to catch the back roll -> SAB), (Step, Autoguard SAB) (Step, Hyperhop Air throw), etc... Could probably even (Step -> Counter Hit CD -> Neomax!), lol.

mAsTarOth: Everyone wants every character to be a jack of all trades, but we already have 2 grapplers in the game with easy-AA DP grapples. I think Clark's buffs and use of Gattling prove that he's the "Fight on the ground, by my rules" grappler of the game, so he actually has very generous anti-air options already. Jet Upper, Hop Air throw, Vulcan Punches, and EX Gattling, and even his Neomax can be used as an AA...

So I agree with your summaries a lot. If a person liked "X" element with a character in the past, XIII makes it so there's PROBABLY a character out there that HAS that element, if you're willing to learn someone new.

I really like this myself. It makes each character worth playing.

bigvador:

Yeah, the grab potion is the regular SAB, but the "autoguard" has to be counted as "Start Up" on the move too. 1 frame grabs in KoF are grabs that are instantly active (1 frame of startup), after activation, that can punish faster than any other move. Weak SAB isn't that by definition. It's a slow-to-start grab. It's use is totally different.

It's like Vice's old "Blackend" throw, which had non of the bonuses of 1 frame throws (couldn't be combo'd into, wasn't fast enough to use VS 1-frame punish situations), but it's slow start up had invincibility, allowing you to use it as a wakeup, reversal, anti-rushdown tool, a throw that could actually work in blockstrings (since it's startup took longer, they could recover from hitstun just as the "grapple" happened), etc. It makes me very happy to use Clark and Vice together, since they both have elements of something I loved in each character, back in past games.

Also, SAB is so unique to Clark, that he even has a DM & EXDM Version of it, and a special followup from the normal one. Plus with his console version of the move, he gets Super cancel after the EX version. Argentine Back Breakers are Clarks SPECIALITY. They're his very reason for existing in this game. I'm a bit sad he lost the unique poses in the DM version, but anyway...

It's the same reason, say, Mature doesn't have "Decide"  anymore; the move has been made into a cornerstone of Vice's gameplay, and has been left out from Mature, to increase character uniqueness.

Ralf is a pure puncher in this game. He punches explosions out the ground, he punches people on the ground while mounting them, he has the most powerful punch in existance as a DM, he has a punch autoguard counter, and he can link his Punch special moves together in a way unlike anyone else... a SAB would totally go aganist everything else he has. The only thing that was unique about Ralf's SAB before (the fact it had autoguard) has now been given to Clark too!

If they were to give Ralf a command throw / command unblockable like Robert's in the future, I'd either like to see it be more punching (Like Kevin Ryan's gutpunch grapple), or a return of his old Northern Lights throw.

-----

Back to Clark, though; I do think people are kinda sleeping on his Air Throw, and on the use of Death Lake Driver to end his ground combos. I look forward to seeing (and using) him more properly and well-rounded once the console version hits!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 04:57:13 PM by SAB-CA »

bigvador

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #146 on: October 16, 2011, 08:29:43 PM »
ill talk about ralf in the ralf thread i want to stay on the clark on this one

i guess i just cant really see clark as a grappler like he was back in the day. I look at him now and to me he kinda incomplete and i wouldnt really consider him a grappler type character. I mean i see he has tools to set his SAB i mean auto guard and hop i dont think you would need anything else but with those same tools he could have set up with his Frankensteiner at least (i consider that a get out of the corner move)

mAsTarOth: that is a very good point and i dont even see how i can say something against that but with thats said i can only see the first 2 things you said about clark is very true but the rest dont really click with me he do have juggle potential and im still not sure about his anti air (i dont really understand the auto guard just yet i guess i have to see it rather then be explained) with the juggle i feel its just back up just in case you cant catch someone with SAB which there is nothing wrong with that but then i start to think of ralf cause i know that is what is better at (alot better)

SAB-CA: your right people are sleeping on his air throw but i think its only because we really havnt seen it put into action. Like iv seen it used but not really seeing its full ability. Even though you did give a good explination of the auto guard im not sure if i get it but i wanna say (to sum it up in my head) if he was to do the weak SAB with nobody attacking then its 1 frame or maybe more cause auto guard has to activate then the start up comes out for the SAB (somethin like that)

all in all i would just about compare him to raiden more then ralf cause he can juggle and grab 50/50 thats the way i see it but all that aside clark dont need anything else like mAsTarOth said before which i do understand and i know i just cant fully understand where they too clark with in XIII but i cant wait to find out!!!

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #147 on: October 16, 2011, 09:04:42 PM »
*nod* Yeah, understandable about Ralf, don't wanna get too far off character, haha.

With the Autoguard SAB, Clark Stands there with his arms out, even if you don't attack him. Minus the bit of hitstun you see when people attack him, that's about how long he stands still. Apparently, he can't cancel this autoguard stance, either, so he's stuck in the move, until he lands the throw, or whiffs the animation.

I can agree that it'd be great to see Clark with more back, especially since he had SO MUCH in the past, including 3 different throws off of his dashing tackle, including the fantastic Rolling Cradle, a dashing grapple to punish those who were ducking, and invincible, slow-to-start grapple that lead to fantastic mixups (the frankensteiner), anti-air command throw, UAB, Running Three, etc, etc... he was the perfect example of a character who had  moves atop of moves atop of moves, when the use of 1 well, could take the purpose of 3 others, lol.

All I ever personally want for Clark, is some solid Horizontal control with his throws. Maxima's taken that to a new level now, with his Maxima Press, though. Clark has a quicker variety with "Step" now. If his Step allows him to do pressure-blockstrings and mixups into SAB, I'll be happy! :)

Gattling Attack itself being cancelable into SAB on ground, or followed up into DLD after the strong / EX version still gives Clark that "I own the Horizontal space!" feel in a unique way, which I'm always happy for. Maxima lost Maxima Scramble but gained Press, Clark lost his run tackle, but gained new options off Gattling. It kinda works out!

bigvador

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #148 on: October 16, 2011, 09:44:11 PM »
can argue with that and i didnt even think of him being able to cancel gatling attack into SAB thats some good damage come to think about it if i couldnt even think of somethin like that with clark then i really must consider him a grappler.... im not sure but i believe clarks gatling only 2 hits and the EX is 3???

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Re: Clark Still
« Reply #149 on: October 17, 2011, 05:14:23 AM »
i love what they did to Clark/Ralf both... and most others too... imo XIII gives every character their own gimmick (like GG/BB... not as extreme but in a more simplistic KOF way)... before XIII *xii doesn't count* a few KOF characters never felt so unique and fun to play or watch... i.e. Ash, Maxima, Takuma, Chin, Yuri, Shen, Clark, Ralf...

this is the best version of Clark as far as style goes... he always had been the SAME Clark with the same god damn w/e > SAB/DM combos since '94... it is VERY refreshing to see Clark do something completely DIFFERENT for once... he is like a NEW character... come on... who ever thought of Clark doing corner to corner JUGGLES?!1!? his pressure game kinda reminds me of Ramon's pressure game but not as crazy...

same goes for Ralf... he sucked as far as style was concerned... now he has a whole DIFFERENT gameplay... bombs? Ralf being SAFE? Ralf having more than 2 hit AND hit-confirmable COMBOS? he is also like a brand NEW character...

for once Clark/Ralf can't be compared in any way *minus normals of course*... their Gatlings and Vulcans work differently... gameplay wise they are have a totally different approach... same goes for flame vs. claw Iori... awesome work SNK...
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