Author Topic: Ramon  (Read 4232 times)

Mr.Minionman

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Ramon
« on: August 05, 2016, 06:45:34 PM »


Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Arm Whip - (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;c
Flying Mare - (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;d

Command Normals
Sankaku-Tobi - in air near edge of screen, ;uf
Drop Kick - ;df + ;b
Head Butt - ;fd + ;a
   ∟ Hikiokoshi - after Head Butt knockdown, ;dn ;dn + ;a/ ;c

Special Moves
Tiger Neck Chancery - ;hcf + ;a/ ;c (*)
Rolling Sobat - ;dp + ;b/ ;d (*)
   ∟Flying Body Attack[After ;b / ;d Rolling Sobat hits] - ;dp + ;b/ ;d
      ∟Hikiokoshi - ;dn ;dn + ;a/ ;c
Somersault - ;hcf + ;b/ ;d (*)
   ∟Stop - ;a ;b
Tiger Road - ;qcb + ;b/ ;d (*)
   ∟Feint Dash[Tiger Road] - ;a ;b
   ∟Feint Jump[Tiger Road] - ;uf
   ∟Cross Chop[Tiger Road] - ;b/ ;d
   ∟Force of Will[Tiger Road] - ;qcf + ;a/ ;c
      ∟Hikiokoshi[Force of Will] - ;dn ;dn + ;a/ ;c
Bird of Paradise - ;dn ;dn + ;a ;c
   ∟Hikiokoshi[Bird of Paradise] - ;dn ;dn + ;a/ ;c
Feint Step - ;qcb + ;a/ ;c

Super Special Moves
Tiger Spin - ;hcb ;hcb + ;a/ ;c (!)
El • Diablo • Amarillo • Ramon • Volando - ;qcb ;hcf + ;b/ ;d (!)

Climax Super Special Move
Hyper Sonic • Ramon - ;hcb ;hcb + ;b ;d

Amedø310

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2016, 07:57:56 PM »
Ramon combos into safe jumps:

1. (Corner, 1 Bar)...qcb, hcf+B/D, d, d+A*C, forward jump, db+D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awXXlNk42YU

2. (Corner, 2 Bars)...qcb, hcf+BD, d, d+A*C, forward jump, db+D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipZ0qSkBlFo

Both combos are 3 frame safe jumps.

buckweet

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2016, 10:29:00 AM »
Nice 2 bar combo from El Rosa in last nights WNF.

https://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/v/85557840?t=2h01m40s

desmond_kof

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 06:56:03 PM »
From facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/247580531972394/permalink/1238348192895618/

"Ramon quick guide. He got pretty popular thanks to El Rosa but figured it'd still be useful to someone.
Ramon, the original luchadore grappler with crazy mobility and off the wall shenanigans.
Ramon is a unique grab-oriented character that can be all over the place and can confuse opponents with his flashy moves.
His gameplan mainly involves getting close enough to be a threat with his command grabs, j.C and run fients.
Unlike traditional grapplers, Ramon's main grab imo is his running somersault grab. It's what makes people twitchy and try to jump away coz it's basically a run animation that becomes a throw if you stay put. It's essential in Ramon's offense with run fients and hop C pressure which keep the opponent guessing on when they should be blocking or trying to avoid the Somersault.
He does also have a 1f traditional command grab in hcf+P which also helps him in opening people up.
As you might've seen with El Rosa, Ramon shines in the 2nd spot. Mainly because his damage becomes scary high with 2 bars stocked and the slightly extended MAX mode benefits him greatly to end combos with an upgraded El Diablo (qcb hcf+K) Super.
Ramon's jump normals are a big part of his gameplan, mainly jump C. It has a beefy hitbox, decent speed and it can cross up. Very ambigious and hard to anti-air in a lot of angles.
The other important air normal is j.CD, this one is mainly for air to air and to starting pressure.
He has solid pokes but they're a bit slow and have somewhat awkward angles, you'll need to learn how to utilize them to be able to fight in the mid range.
His pokes are far B, far C and cr C.
Far B and far C are the main ones, far B is better overall as it's quicker and can be used as a "check", far C is more rewarding (especially if you quick MAX out of it) and covers more or less the same range, but it's a bit slower.
Cr C is his other main poke, it's good if it connects but it lacks in range and speed. Mainly a pressure tool to use with his run feints and it cancels into df.B.
His CD can be used as a poke, and it can also anti-air hops but it's a bit slow and it's risky coz it's not cancellable on whiff. Can combo into El Diablo super from anywhere.
For anti-airs he has far A, far D and j.CD.
Far A is pretty quick and can be used as a poke too, far D is pretty slow but once it's out it can anti-air a lot of stuff.
In the air j.CD should be able to take care of everything, j.B can be useful as a quicker option.
As said earlier, Somersault is one of his main tools, it's threat is what makes Ramon scary and why people would jump away or try to press buttons/reversal any chance they get. You can also stop with AB to feint your opponent or to stay safe if they jump.
It's best to use in spots where people would expect a button so they'll try to block, like cl.C df.B qcb+C then somersault.
Hcf+P is also important, 1f grab for good ol' grappler action. Useful for punishes and in offense, it's also good if you're cornered coz it switches sides. Can combo from cl.B or chained df.B
Tiger road (qcb+K), a signature move of him, is where Ramon starts running backwards towards the edge of the screen and jumps off of it, done raw he'll bounce off the wall and fall on his face, it does a hit if they're close enough but it's worthless, don't do this ever.
Once he reaches the wall he has 2 possible follow-ups, qcf+P and f+K.
F+K is a flying cross chop that'll go almost fullscreen, can be used to go over fireballs. Knocks back and not safe on block.
Qcf+P is a flying body splash that goes into a grab animation if it connects, goes about halfscreen distance. Think Fuerte's fajita buster off the wall.
It also grabs airborne opponents if they're in it's path.
You can pick up with dd+A after it for big damage.
Tiger road can also be stopped with AB, can be abused from far away for meter building.
Uf will cancel the run into a backflip, pretty pointless but it's there.
Sobat kick (dp+K) is the money maker damage-wise, combos from heavies and df.B. It's a flashy rekka basically, on hit you can do dp+K for a followup slash, and you can dd+A off of it. Only do this after a confirm. B is quicker and D has a bit more range, always go for D Sobat imo.
Qcb+P is an odd move, mainly for cancelling normals to stay safe. Holding it will make Ramon walk back and forth till you let go, A version will do a leaping dropkick once you let go, very unsafe but can anti-air if used early enough as it hits a pretty high angle.
On Counterhit it causes a wallstick.
C version is just the walk lol, in pressure cancel into qcb+C to stay safe, otherwise df.B for example is punishable.
In pressure you can do stuff like cl.C qcb+C throw, or cr.C df.B qcb+C cr.C df.B qcb+C. You can do 2 reps before they're out of range. This has no EX and it doesn't build meter.
Lastly there's his kneedrop, dd+a~C. The input takes some practice. You can piano it or simply do dd+A then hold C. It's useful when people are expecting a df.B, can cross up crouching opponents and can be tricky on wakeup. Can be followed up with dd+A if it wasn't combo'd into. It also OTGs, mainly after El Diablo super in the corner, leads to a safejump (normal jump j.D).
F+A is a slow overhead that knocks down, it leads to good damage if you manage to land it as you can follow it with dd+A.
Quick notes about his OTG pickup dd+A. This can be done off a few moves; dd+A~C, Sobat follow-up, Tiger Road~qcf+P and his f+A overhead.
It can be cancalled into grab super, EX El Diablo or Climax during the last punch after he picks you up. This is where all his damage comes from. Without the cancel it leaves the opponent standing and you're both around even frame-wise.
Keep in mind that if you combo into f+A (Cl.C f+A) or dd+A~C you can't do dd+A after. But they're both hard knockdowns so you can go for mixups or safejump in the corner.
Ramon has decent EX moves overall so popping MAX mode has it's benefits.
EX somersault is insanely fast, will catch people all the time from really far.
EX tiger load is the same but runs backwards, sadly the followups are the same speed and range as the regular version.
EX sobat crumples and boosts his combo damage massively, can combo into D sobat or f+A.
EX grab has more range and does more damage.
His grab super is invincible, can be used as a reversal but be careful as most people knows this. Switches sides just like his hcf+P
El Diablo is an off the wall super, Ramon runs all the way to the wall during the super freeze and does a flying chop fullscreen. Invincible till he flies off the wall. Can be used to punish projectiles with slow recovery. EX is much quicker and is the one you'll mainly use as the regular version won't combo from anything unless your back is against the wall.
This is also the only super he has that'll keep the opponent in the corner, grab super and Climax leave the opponent midscreen.
His climax is a running grab similar to Somersault. Overall not worth the extra bar compared to EX Diablo unless it'll kill. Invincible for a bit at the start.
His combos are very straight forward
Cl.C df.B MAX cl.C df.B EX sobat D sobat>followup> dd.A xx EX el Diablo, OTG kneedrop in the corner possible.
cr.A cr.B MAX cl.C df.B EX sobat D sobat>followup> dd.A xx EX el Diablo
Cl.B far B MAX cl.C df.B EX sobat D sobat>followup> dd.A xx EX el Diablo
Extra notes:
CD on hit cancelled into somersault~stop to close in can combo into Sobat from anywhere.
His cr D is solid but really slow, but can cancel into df.B even on whiff. Cr.D whiff cancel df.B grants you a low from like 3/4 the screen. Can catch a lot of people off guard.
Cl.B is a low, and can combo into far B, quick MAX off of it for full combo.
He has a wall jump which can help you escape the corner and close in in some cases.
Has tiger noises with his moves for extra badassery.
Players to watch:
El Rosa, Haregoro"
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Kane317

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 10:13:10 AM »
Minor corrections:
-hcf+P isn't 1F, most likely 2F but the Ex version is 1F
-After a std.CD, you cannot connect El Diablo (qcb~hcf+K), in fact, it doesn't seem like any level DM connects
-The Cross Chop follow-up after Tiger Road (qcb+K), is just K, no need to add the forward.
-Bird of Paradise (dx2+A~C), even when comboed into, can be follow upped with dx2+P.

TrulyAmiracle

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 10:17:09 PM »
Minor corrections:
-hcf+P isn't 1F, most likely 2F but the Ex version is 1F
-After a std.CD, you cannot connect El Diablo (qcb~hcf+K), in fact, it doesn't seem like any level DM connects
-The Cross Chop follow-up after Tiger Road (qcb+K), is just K, no need to add the forward.
-Bird of Paradise (dx2+A~C), even when comboed into, can be follow upped with dx2+P.



- Noted, no idea on how to test that outside of knowing (crazy quick grab) or not.
-You can, just gotta delay it a bit (so you're not cancelling it). Can connect regular and EX.
-Lol guess I just did it this way for some reason I'll fix the original guide but the above post isn't mine so..
-You're right just tried it, combos into dd+P after EX sobat and CD. Guess the OTG after El Diablo is an exception then.
Winning is Everything. How you do it doesn't matter...

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Angel|Mian|Meitenkun|Ralf|Geese|Ramon|Vice

Vokkan

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2016, 12:54:33 AM »
Ramon's grab is 5f.

Coliflowerz

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2016, 09:41:21 AM »
You can link super after st. CD! Just cancel it into qcb C.
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TrulyAmiracle

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2016, 04:46:39 PM »
Ramon's grab is 5f.

Lol is it? how would you test that? It feels faster than 5f.
Winning is Everything. How you do it doesn't matter...

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Coliflowerz

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2016, 08:07:26 PM »
Ive done wakeup regular command grab before on a jumping meaty, and it worked. So it definitely doesnt feel like its 1f, and it might even have some invuln. Or, it is 1f and active for awhile? idk.

I compiled a guide for his BnBs and other tools.
https://youtu.be/9VrTMdz19sY
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Vokkan

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2016, 03:57:32 AM »
how would you test that?
You just dummy record and see what it can punish.

Kane317

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2016, 07:14:42 AM »
Ok good to know about the s.CD into DM.  So it's basically a link, thanks guys!

Krusan

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2016, 05:34:38 PM »
Combo variety is not Ramon´s strong point. This doesn´t mean he´s a bad character, and this doesn´t mean we didn´t try our best to find stuff with him:
Ramon combo exhibition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjVx7SwCvc
Enjoy!

EXWildWolf

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2016, 12:54:23 AM »
Following Mixups:

J.CD, Hop Again, Empty Low

J.CD, Overhead

J.CD, Command Grab

J.CD, J.C Crossup
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 12:57:50 AM by EXWildWolf »

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Ramon
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 05:55:06 AM »