Author Topic: Antonov  (Read 4572 times)

desmond_kof

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Antonov
« on: August 26, 2016, 07:38:11 PM »
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
President Lift - (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;c
President Toss - (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;d

Command Normals
President Binta -  ;fd + ;a

Special Moves
Whale Stream - ;qcb + ;a/ ;c (*)
Vertical Match - ;dp + ;a/ ;c (*)
Gigantic Press -  ;hcb + ;b(*)
Gigantic Back Press -  ;hcb +  ;d
Bering Wave - (in air) ;qcf + ;a/ ;c (*)

Super Special Moves
Tunguska Bomber - ;qcf ;qcf + ;a/ ;c(!)
Kamchatka Collapse - ;qcf ;qcf + ;b/ ;d(!)

Climax Super Special Move
Moby Dick Burst - ;hcb ;hcb + ;a ;c
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 12:37:35 AM by desmond_kof »
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

KingEire

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2016, 12:22:41 AM »
Are people leaning more toward him being Tournament legal now?

desmond_kof

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2016, 12:40:21 AM »
We were talking about this in the discord...so far he doesn't seem very strong. Not much mixup potential, medium damage output, he just has good range (a few of his standing normals whiff on some crouching opponents), thats really it. I would love to see players put more effort into him as time goes on but so far, he doesn't have anything truly dirty.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Coliflowerz

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2016, 01:24:10 AM »
Yeah Xiaohai made a tier list recently and he's not that high up. He's very good for learning the game; he lacks any gimmicks.
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Zinron

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2016, 10:05:32 PM »
Been playing this guy a little too much since I got my hands on the game. Here's what I got on Antonov so far guys:

General Notes:
  • cr.B is plus on block
  • cl.Dchains into st.C/st.D loses all cancel-ability
  • DP + A/C can be cancel into air QCF + A/C on hit whif block just before the final hit comes out
  • cl.D forces standing
  • cr.D is an overhead (both hits). 1st hit doesnt actually knockdown so you can do cr.D(1) MAX cr.B cr.B
  • QCB + C wallbounces on counterhit
  • CD has armor
  • QCB+C has armor

Combos:
In general I felt his combos to be very limited, mostly due to long recoveries. Hopefully you guys come up with much better stuff than I do. So far this is mostly from my notes so its little unorganized, will edit to clean it up.

Note: When you see [xxx/xxx] The second set of numbers represents the damage for spending the extra meter to do a level 2 super.

Midscreen

cr.B, cr.B, DP+C [162] *standing/point blank only
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB+A [190]

1 Meter
cl.C/cr.C, f.a,  QCFx2 + A [289]
cr.B, cr.B, QCFx2 + C [220/360]
cr.B, cr.B, QCFx2 + B [166/328]
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A, QCFx2 + B [292]
cl.C/cr.C, f.a,  MAX cl.C/cr.C, f.a, HCB + BD, dash, QCB + AC [399]

2 Meter
CD QCB + A whiff QCFx2 + A/C [227/358] *near corner
CD QCB + A whiff QCFx2 + BD [330]

3 Meter
cr.B, cr.B, HCBx2 + AC [470]
cl.C/cr.C, f.a,  QCFx2 + A, QCFx2 + BD [499]
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A, HCBx2 + AC [579]
CD QCB + A whiff HCBx2 + AC [464]
cl.C/cr.C, f.a,  MAX cl.C/cr.C, f.a, HCB + BD, dash, QCFx2 + BD [500] *works in corner, omit the dash

4 Meter
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A QCFx2 + B HCBx2 + AC [656/809] *dont super cancel the level 1 super

Corner

CD xx st.D, cr.B [167]

1 Meter
cr.B, cr.B, QCFx2 + B, st.D, cr.B [258] *air reset
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A,  QCFx2 + A [342]
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A,  QCFx2 + B, st.D, cr.B [378]
cl.C/cr.C, f.a,  MAX cl.C/cr.C, f.a, HCB + BD,  HCB + BD, DP + A [432]
cl.C/cr.C, f.a,  MAX cl.C/cr.C, f.a, HCB + BD, DP + AC [393]
CD xx HCB + B, QCFx2 + B, st.D, cr.B [328]

2 Meter
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A,  QCFx2 + B , st.D, MAX, HCB + BD, HCB + BD, DP+ A [544]
CD xx HCB + B,  QCFx2 + BD [391]
CD xx HCB + B, QCFx2 + B, st.D, MAX, HCB + BD, HCB + BD, DP + A [480]

3 Meter
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A , QCFx2 + A, QCFx2 + BD  [537]

4 Meter
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A  QCFx2 + A HCBx2 + AC [635/766]

Let me know what you guys think, if you have anything better, or how i can make it look nicer.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 08:11:59 PM by Zinron »

desmond_kof

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2016, 01:07:34 AM »
Thanks for sharing these! I will add them to the wiki. Any of the Max mode combos need any specific meter amounts? Point character, Second, Anchor (1000. 1250, 1500)?
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Zinron

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 01:34:51 AM »
I actually havent done anything with amounts Max, everything was with 1000 so theres definitely room for improvement.

desmond_kof

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 07:11:52 PM »
I added the combos to his wiki:

http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Antonov_(XIV)#Combos

Thank you so much!


cl.C/cr.C, f.a,  MAX cl.C/cr.C, f.a, HCB + BD,  HCB + BD, QCF + A [432]

Do you mean air qcf+A?

4 Meter
cl.C/cr.C, f.a, QCB + A  QCFx2 + A HCBx2 + AC [635/766]

How do you get the 766?

-desmond
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Zinron

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 08:10:05 PM »
Do you mean air qcf+A?

That should be DP+A. It has been fixed

How do you get the 766?

Anytime there's a xxx/xxx That means doing the level 1 super or level 2 version of the super. I wanted to show the damage if you spend the extra meter. I'll edit and add a note to mention that.

Zinron

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 10:56:00 PM »
Figured this would be a thing since dash up super/qcb worked, but kudos to Antinomy for putting it up.
https://twitter.com/Antinomy001/status/769303250730381312

xSHOGUNDo

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2016, 06:17:28 PM »
I keep forgetting to test this, but does anybody know what the C version of his Bering Wave does? (air QCF+C) It looks like he just feints the A version of the Bering Wave which actually slams the ground. Unless I'm dumb and you have to superjump it to get the full animation to come out.


edit* ok I've been told that it is indeed a feint that you can use to alter his pressure.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 09:18:42 PM by xSHOGUNDo »

Argenrost

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2016, 06:53:06 PM »
Good stuff to Zinron for getting a lot of info out there already. I wanted to add some notes that weren't included that I've found to be really important to Antonov's neutral game, as well as an interesting post-combo setup.

Neutral:
  • st.A is on the slow side but has a really good hitbox; it can even stuff pressure coming from high jumps on top of being great for short hop defense.
  • The recovery of st.A is cancellable both into itself and into st.B, even on whiff. You can essentially "pump fake" into st.B this way. Kinda gimmicky at this point but good to know.
  • st.B is easily his best grounded poking normal and a big part of his neutral game tech. I'll go into this more over the next few bullet points.
  • st.B f+A doesn't combo but it's a great anti-mash/anti-jump chain that reaches out to about 1/3 screen. f+A qcb+A combos on hit, is safe on block, and is easily hit-confirmable into a super if desired.
  • st.B hcb+D is a legit tick throw from any distance that st.B connects, and it's very hard to react to. Important to Antonov's mix-up and conditioning game.
  • f+A is feint cancellable at any point in time before the active frames. This means you can do things like st.B f+A~hcb+D to confuse the opponent into thinking you're continuing pressure and feinting into a command throw. This is where a lot of the conditioning comes in.
  • st.B qcb+A is good for when the opponent eventually figures out that f+A qcb+A isn't a true block string, since they'll eventually try to stuff it with an invincible move. You can also simply opt to not cancel the f+A; it's technically not very safe but if you're using it at max range it's highly unlikely you can get punished.

Combos:

Zinron covered all the good stuff I have, but I do have a really silly setup that's worth talking about in the corner:
cl./cr.C f+A qcb+A qcfx2+B, j.C j.qcf+A/C

Basically you do a combo into the level 1 kick super, then juggle with an immediate jump C cancelled into Bering Splash. A Bering Splash is extremely meaty, and if the opponent does anything other than block or an invincible reversal the splash will hit them and knock them down.

If the opponent blocks, you've already recovered from the splash and get to continue pressure, perhaps even a cr.B/cr.D low/overhead mix-up. The point is that you're super plus. If the opponent is somehow wise to this setup and knows they can beat it with a fast invincible reversal, that's where C Bering Splash comes in. I haven't firmly tested this yet but I'm reasonably confident you recover fast enough from this setup that you can block the reversal and punish in the appropriate manner.

That's all I got for now but I hope it helps. IMO Antonov is actually shaping up to be a legit character. Underrated by most people's tier lists but still maybe a solid mid-tier at best. He can get pushed in really bad if he loses momentum, but he's very capable of winning neutral against just about anyone in the cast if you play smart.

Zx-Tole

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2016, 08:13:12 AM »
stuff I posted in another forum (SRK)

Crouch B x3 xxx Tunguska Bomber - 237 damage can also use Kamchatka Collapse instead but you get 187 damage mid screen

Crouch B x3 max cancel far standing B xxx EX Back Press, a short run up immediately cancel run into EX Whale Stream - 278 damage, have more to confirm off of to decide to max cancel

Crouch B, max cancel, close standing C, forward A xxx EX Back Press, a short run up then cancel into EX Whale Stream - 322 damage

Crouch B, crouch A, max cancel, close Standing C, forward A xxx EX Back Press, a short run up then cancel into EX Whale Stream - 325 damage

Crouch B, crouch B, max cancel, close Standing C, forward A xxx EX Back Press, a short run up then cancel into EX Whale Stream - 330 damage, this is the most damaging one I've found.

It starts with Blow back that hits the opposing character, cancel into Gigantic Press (HCB+B) to get close, and once you recover from GP immediately Vertical Match A version (SRK+A) then cancel Vertical Match into the A version of Bering Wave. It will hit in the last frame of the wave as the opposing character is recovering, if it's blocked it pushes the opposing character far enough and keeps them in block stun long enough to make Antonov safe. This is a non corner setup.

Of course a well timed wake up reversal will hit Antonov. Probably can mix it up with the C version of Bering Wave to keep em guessing.

so I found out that you should wait a split second after the gigantic press to do the vertical match A cancelled into A version of Bering Wave or else the last frame of the wave will whiff on the opposing character on wake up. After the blocked meaty wave you can also add in a far standing B and it becomes a small block string that you can turn into a tick throw with Gigantic Back Press (HCB+D).

Another thing I found is that after a two hit crouch D, that's not blocked, you can do a tiger knee A version Bering Wave, and if you do it fast enough and low enough after you recover from the crouch D, it will be relatively safe on block. I say relatively safe since I only tested this on Kyo and no other characters, would need a fast far reaching move to punish the wave on block. Also I'm not sure which one it is or if it's both, but if you do the tiger knee Bering Wave too late or too high then I was able to punish the wave on block with Kyo's far standing B.

Of course the bering wave can be punished on wake up with a good reversal, but if I do the tiger knee C version of Bering Wave instead of the A version (fast and low enough) it's safe even against a wake up reversal. So there's a decent mind game you can do with Antonov off his two hit crouch D overhead.

The reason why I say two hit crouch D is because when I'm far enough to just get one hit off his crouch D it's voids all the good things about this set up for some reason. I was able to punish the blocked bering wave with Kyo's far standing B no matter how fast and low I did the tiger knee A version Bering Wave and I can punish the C version on wake up with Kyo's SRK. My theory is that it might have to do with the vicinity of the knocked down character changing how fast Antonov lands with his tiger knee Bering Wave.

Can also do the tiger knee Bering wave stuff after a forward throw.

Saw a video of Antonov bering wave safe jump set ups and he was doing tiger knee bering wave where Antonov moved backwards away from the opposing character. I gotta learn that stuff.

Here's the vid, vid isn't mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BAWQJxkmls

Also found instant hop C is an instant overhead, although it's unsafe on the way down. Can cancel it into bering wave but still unsafe against players with good reactions.


Vokkan

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2017, 01:44:42 AM »
Some move properties:

s.D starts a juggle. MAX cancel it for damaging anti-air combos.

qcb+C has high auto-guard, but is too slow and unsafe to be useful.

qcb+AC has high-mid autoguard and can actually blow stuff up.

dp+AC is a 4f reversal.

qcfx2+BD is a 9f reversal.

Added:

air qcf+AC negates projectiles and must be blocked low.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 03:56:02 PM by Vokkan »

Vokkan

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Re: Antonov
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 04:14:35 PM »
Sadly any s.B cancels lose to jabs (except some EX moves).

cr.B on the other hand frametraps into itself, and at max range f+A and hcb+D will whiff punish jabs.